|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
How realistic is it to get down to 15-20 threes per game?
Even in Byron Scott's last year, we avg 24.6 attempts per game.
This year, at 28.6 attempts, we rank 22nd out of 30 teams.
The last team in the league, Cleveland, shoots 22.8 threes a game.
The 26th ranked team in the league, Sacramento, shoots 27.1 attempts per game. |
They had 23 attempts in the win against Denver and 21 attempt in the win against Portland, their only 2 quality wins of the year thus far. It's more about getting quality shots than it is about 2's vs 3's. But with the way this teams shoots the 3 ball, they don't take a lot of quality 3 looks. And the real Helter Skelter with this team is that they have the exact opposite personality with the quality of the 2 point shots they attempt. They do an excellent job of not settling for lower percentage 2 point shots, and are pretty good at getting their 2 point shots going at the rim - hence their high percentage compared to the league.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I see them practicing 3 pointers warming up before games.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
But if the difference this year is Magic/Pelinka stressing less threes, and we're still taking 28.6 (compared to 29.1 last year), then I don't get it. And, we're still taking more threes than Luke's 1st season here.
Did we really improve in that area? Or, is it just a by product of trading Brook Lopez for JaVale McGee / and Jordan Clarkson for Lance Stephenson? |
I think you may have figured out Magic and Luke's terse meeting. I'd bet good money there was little discussion about record, and a lot of discussion about intended style of play and emphasis. Again, not so much the concentration on the 3 ball, but rather on the quality of shot making, and with this particular rosters strengths and weaknesses, that just correlates to fewer threes in favor of more quality 2's. And if they become more proficient 3 ball shooters later in the season, then you adjust THEN.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16135
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aussiesuede wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
How realistic is it to get down to 15-20 threes per game?
Even in Byron Scott's last year, we avg 24.6 attempts per game.
This year, at 28.6 attempts, we rank 22nd out of 30 teams.
The last team in the league, Cleveland, shoots 22.8 threes a game.
The 26th ranked team in the league, Sacramento, shoots 27.1 attempts per game. |
They had 23 attempts in the win against Denver and 21 attempt in the win against Portland, their only 2 quality wins of the year thus far. It's more about getting quality shots than it is about 2's vs 3's. But with the way this teams shoots the 3 ball, they don't take a lot of quality 3 looks. And the real Helter Skelter with this team is that they have the exact opposite personality with the quality of the 2 point shots they attempt. They do an excellent job of not settling for lower percentage 2 point shots, and are pretty good at getting their 2 point shots going at the rim - hence their high percentage compared to the league. |
Yeah, I don't know why the need to distinguish between wins and "quality" wins.
We shot 13-29 (44.8%) vs. Dallas. We won. You distinguish that as a non-quality win?
We shot 10-28 (35.7%) vs. Phoenix. We won. You distinguish that as a non-quality win?
We shot 6-23 (26.1%) vs. Denver. We won. You distinguish that as a quality win.
we shot 8-21 (38.1%) vs. Portland. We won. You distinguish that as a quality win.
Yeah, I'm not even sure what it is you're saying. Shooting less than 23 threes leads to "quality" wins?
But, you never answered my question though - how realistic is it for this team to shoot 15-20 threes per game? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aussiesuede wrote: |
Of course no team would ever exclusively shoot nothing but three pointers. That was presented to dispel the oft spoken notion that it's as simple as "3 points is worth more then 2 points. What's worth more on a possession, when you take and miss a three pointer, or when you take and make a 2 pointer? Considering the rate of success this particular team has when taking 2 pointers vs 3 pointers, I'd say their sweet spot is somewhere in the neighborhood of:
79 - 84 2 point attempts @56% = 88- 94 ppg
&
15-20 3 point attempts @ 34% = 15 -20 ppg (And if they were just limiting themselves to quality attempts, I'd expect that percentage to rise)
Overall the team would benefit from the 20% differential in wasted possessions vs scored possessions since they score on a possession where they take a 2 56% of the time and come away with a goose egg nearly 44% of the time. As opposed to scoring the 3 ball on 34% of their possessions where they take a 3 and come up with a goose egg a disgusting goose egg nearly 66% of the time. That's a lot of wasted possessions. |
I think you're basing too many assumptions off the numbers in the first 10 games. The more recent percentages are far different than the ones to start the season, so the notion that the 56/34% are set in stone is dubious.
Anyway, the Cavs currently average the lowest number of 3-pointers a game at about 24. I don't think 15-20 3-pointers a game is some magical sweet spot for us. It seems like just an arbitrary number. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
How realistic is it to get down to 15-20 threes per game?
Even in Byron Scott's last year, we avg 24.6 attempts per game.
This year, at 28.6 attempts, we rank 22nd out of 30 teams.
The last team in the league, Cleveland, shoots 22.8 threes a game.
The 26th ranked team in the league, Sacramento, shoots 27.1 attempts per game. |
They had 23 attempts in the win against Denver and 21 attempt in the win against Portland, their only 2 quality wins of the year thus far. It's more about getting quality shots than it is about 2's vs 3's. But with the way this teams shoots the 3 ball, they don't take a lot of quality 3 looks. And the real Helter Skelter with this team is that they have the exact opposite personality with the quality of the 2 point shots they attempt. They do an excellent job of not settling for lower percentage 2 point shots, and are pretty good at getting their 2 point shots going at the rim - hence their high percentage compared to the league. |
Yeah, I don't know why the need to distinguish between wins and "quality" wins.
We shot 13-29 (44.8%) vs. Dallas. We won. You distinguish that as a non-quality win?
We shot 10-28 (35.7%) vs. Phoenix. We won. You distinguish that as a non-quality win?
We shot 6-23 (26.1%) vs. Denver. We won. You distinguish that as a quality win.
we shot 8-21 (38.1%) vs. Portland. We won. You distinguish that as a quality win.
Yeah, I'm not even sure what it is you're saying. Shooting less than 23 threes leads to "quality" wins?
But, you never answered my question though - how realistic is it for this team to shoot 15-20 threes per game? |
It's not realistic that THIS team would shoot 15 - 20 threes at this time, because they haven't shown the discipline to stick with a game plan as yet. But if they are to experience any success, at some point they are going to have to become more disciplined.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16135
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: |
Of course no team would ever exclusively shoot nothing but three pointers. That was presented to dispel the oft spoken notion that it's as simple as "3 points is worth more then 2 points. What's worth more on a possession, when you take and miss a three pointer, or when you take and make a 2 pointer? Considering the rate of success this particular team has when taking 2 pointers vs 3 pointers, I'd say their sweet spot is somewhere in the neighborhood of:
79 - 84 2 point attempts @56% = 88- 94 ppg
&
15-20 3 point attempts @ 34% = 15 -20 ppg (And if they were just limiting themselves to quality attempts, I'd expect that percentage to rise)
Overall the team would benefit from the 20% differential in wasted possessions vs scored possessions since they score on a possession where they take a 2 56% of the time and come away with a goose egg nearly 44% of the time. As opposed to scoring the 3 ball on 34% of their possessions where they take a 3 and come up with a goose egg a disgusting goose egg nearly 66% of the time. That's a lot of wasted possessions. |
I think you're basing too many assumptions off the numbers in the first 10 games. The more recent percentages are far different than the ones to start the season, so the notion that the 56/34% are set in stone is dubious.
Anyway, the Cavs currently average the lowest number of 3-pointers a game at about 24. I don't think 15-20 3-pointers a game is some magical sweet spot for us. It seems like just an arbitrary number. |
Yup. There's 10 teams in the league that shoot 3 pointers worse than us. Only 1 of them avg less 3 pt attempts than us (Denver at 28.0 attempts compared to us at 28.6 attempts).
So if it's "simple math," then it seems like no one in the league is getting it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nash Vegas
Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 7239
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I see them practicing 3 pointers warming up before games. |
Yup, but not during the actual 5-on-5 scrimmages. That’s where the aforementioned “point” system of layups > 3-pointer goes into affect.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nash Vegas wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I see them practicing 3 pointers warming up before games. |
Yup, but not during the actual 5-on-5 scrimmages. That’s where the aforementioned “point” system of layups > 3-pointer goes into affect. |
Any truth to the rumor that Luke awards an extra point to the offense for every defender in the key on drives, even on missed layups?
Heard he calls it the Oklahoma City drill.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Staccatos
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
What's dragging down the Lakers 3pt shooting this year are LBJ and Kuzma.
Overall: 98 for 286 3pt = 34.3% (20th in the league)
Lebron James - 15 for 52 3pt = 28.8%
Kyle Kuzma - 15 for 54 3pt = 27.8%
Without LBJ/Kuzma - 68 for 180 = 37.8% (which would be ~ 8th, a very respectable rate)
I don't think LBJ and Kuzma are *that* bad at 3pt, so my expectation would be for this to improve.
I think the lack of shooters is exaggerated. However, right now there is a lack of tangible shooting results.
I don't think it's a roster problem but a lack of a set offenses in order to produce more viable shots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Lakers do NOT practice 3-Pointers but still attempt 30 per game :0 |
|
|
| Nash Vegas wrote: | JaVale McGee had an interview a few weeks ago saying Luke doesn’t incorporate shooting 3s in practice. In fact, Luke incorporated a rule in Lakers practices where layups and dunks are worth more points than 3-point baskets. So naturally players don’t take that many 3s during Lakers practice.
So then, why the hell is this team taking almost 30 three-pointers a game? If you’re not practicing it on your own practices, why shoot so many?
Either Lakers start shooting less 3s or Luke better start incorporating 3s in practices so his players can start getting used to making them. |
Funny McGee said about a month ago he's been shooting 3's in practice and although he won't shoot them typically in a game he'll be ready. I've seen countless of video's of Kuz, Ball, Svi, KCP, BI, Hart in 3 point shooting drills with Simon. Maybe Simon is getting paid under the table to work with them. These guys practice 3's...unfortunately there is not a pure shooter on this team...except Svi but he's not playing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TylersLakers
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fortysixn2 wrote: | | Every time I watch lakers practice videos they are shooting tons of 3s. Fake news. |
That's after practice stuff when they're doing shooting competitions. McGee's probably talking about during scrimmages or drills. After practice, I would assume guys have free reigns to do whatever they want. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
