Developing youth is the wrong way to go
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Developing youth is the wrong way to go

After watching last night's debacle, I just don't get it. Why do teams today still develop youth?

If you really think about, most teams developing youth have no shot at winning and more than likely will trade those players before they even pan out. Oladipo is a great example, considering he was traded by the Orlando Magic. More than anything, young teams do not win championships. Considering our average age is below this threshold, we might want to let the veterans lead off games.

Look at the stats for the last 10 years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6oim2n/a_look_into_the_average_age_of_the_last_10_nba

I'm all for young players because of their athleticism and potential but shouldn't they be allowed to develop naturally during the flow of the game behind the veterans. If we have stand-out young talent like LBJ or Kobe, of course we should make exceptions. But really, shouldn't some of these young players be on the bench earning their spots?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

"developing youth" is code for "showcase for trade"
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I can agree with this logic. So why are we starting BI and Lonzo?

Note: Kuzma might be the exception.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I can agree with this logic. So why are we starting BI and Lonzo?

Note: Kuzma might be the exception.




Is a starting unit of

McGee
Kuzma
LeBron
Lance
Rondo


enough to get to the NBA Finals?
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Developing youth is the wrong way to go

nshid wrote:
After watching last night's debacle, I just don't get it. Why do teams today still develop youth?

If you really think about, most teams developing youth have no shot at winning and more than likely will trade those players before they even pan out. Oladipo is a great example, considering he was traded by the Orlando Magic. More than anything, young teams do not win championships. Considering our average age is below this threshold, we might want to let the veterans lead off games.

Look at the stats for the last 10 years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6oim2n/a_look_into_the_average_age_of_the_last_10_nba

I'm all for young players because of their athleticism and potential but shouldn't they be allowed to develop naturally during the flow of the game behind the veterans. If we have stand-out young talent like LBJ or Kobe, of course we should make exceptions. But really, shouldn't some of these young players be on the bench earning their spots?
we are not about to win anything this year most likely. therefore, you continue to develop the youth for one or two reasons. #1 in hopes they pan out for you. #2 trade bait. the better your youth looks the higher the trade chip.

it is what it is. if we had a solid group of veterans with multiple vet stars. by all means the youth would ride the pine. but that's not the case here. yes we have some vets. but they are not so good that they are winning games and then the kids come in and they lose games.
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
nshid wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I can agree with this logic. So why are we starting BI and Lonzo?

Note: Kuzma might be the exception.




Is a starting unit of

McGee
Kuzma
LeBron
Lance
Rondo


enough to get to the NBA Finals?


I would say there is a much better chance compared to starting youth with tunnel vision and confidence issues. We should always put ourselves in a reasonable position to win games. If we believe we have no chance to win games with this starting lineup, then why bring these veterans on the team?

I hope it's not to develop youth.
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RusselDoeee01
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject:

It just so happens that our youth is probably our best players..

Rondo might be the exception of who is better right now vs lonzo.
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SDLakersFan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

Charles Barkley was right for once. We have 2 completely different teams

The young guns
Zubac
Kuzma
Ingram
Hart
Zo

Then we have the vets
McGee
Beasley
Lebron
Lance
Rondo

We’re just on 2 different pages. The vets are thinking playoffs, the youngins are trying to establish themselves as real nba talent. And as much as I like Luke, his small ball rapid pace offense is hurting all parties involved.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject:

OMFG the sky is falling!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

nshid wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
nshid wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I can agree with this logic. So why are we starting BI and Lonzo?

Note: Kuzma might be the exception.




Is a starting unit of

McGee
Kuzma
LeBron
Lance
Rondo


enough to get to the NBA Finals?


I would say there is a much better chance compared to starting youth with tunnel vision and confidence issues. We should always put ourselves in a reasonable position to win games. If we believe we have no chance to win games with this starting lineup, then why bring these veterans on the team?

I hope it's not to develop youth.


Because the vets besides LeBron were willing to sign one year contracts for low salaries with the exceptions of Rondo and KCP.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

Rondo not better than Lonzo
Stephenson not better than Hart
Beasley not better than Kuzma or Ingram

Develop them because we don't have any other options right now
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

This is called "having your cake and eating it too".

It's risky and may fail at both ends, but can pay off with the most dividends.

Why do most championship runs end? Your star players get old or move on. If you're always grooming in a new set of stars then you can keep it going (maybe).

This is what the Lakers are trying to achieve. Whether they'll make it remains to be seen.

It's the Magic-gamble and we'll judge his reign as a front office exec based on how it does, succeed or fail.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Some examples of competing for titles and developing young talent at the same time are Tatum and Brown with the Celtics, Simmons & Embiid with the Sixers, Kawhi with the Spurs, Durant, Westbrook, and Harden in OKC. Bynum with the Lakers.

Many will say, that there’s a lot of franchise players on that list. My response would be that hindsight is 20/20. Because if everyone knew how good these kids would be, then how come Simmons is the only one selected #1 overall? Developing and competing isn’t as rare as one might think. But it’s definitely not easy. And I don’t think the Lakers have the right personnel in place to do so.
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rock0100
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I have to agree. I love our youth, but our most talented player for the next 4 years is Bron. Even as he declines BI or Lonzo will not surpass him.

Keep Kuz and Hart as role players and flip BI and Lonzo for immediate help or at least flip one of them. Bron is a once in a lifetime player even at his age. Don’t let that go to waste.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Tough call. Can’t go full youth development (Suns, Kings) and can’t go full old vets (cavs, pistons).

It’s generally a mix...at least current league trends.

Issue for the Lakers is the youth isn’t collectively producing enough and the vets are weak on defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

The Raptors are that good because they developed their youth...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject:

rock0100 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


I have to agree. I love our youth, but our most talented player for the next 4 years is Bron. Even as he declines BI or Lonzo will not surpass him.

Keep Kuz and Hart as role players and flip BI and Lonzo for immediate help or at least flip one of them. Bron is a once in a lifetime player even at his age. Don’t let that go to waste.


Sounds easy
Flip them for who?
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject:

SDLakersFan wrote:
Charles Barkley was right for once. We have 2 completely different teams

The young guns
Zubac
Kuzma
Ingram
Hart
Zo

Then we have the vets
McGee
Beasley
Lebron
Lance
Rondo

We’re just on 2 different pages. The vets are thinking playoffs, the youngins are trying to establish themselves as real nba talent. And as much as I like Luke, his small ball rapid pace offense is hurting all parties involved.


That's kind of the Laker way. One foot in, one foot out. They never go for a total rebuild, because they always want to give fans a sense that they've got some chance to win.
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject:

There isn't just one way to build a title contender. Teams that had longevity as contenders like the Spurs and Warriors DID develop through the draft, and then you have teams like the Heat and Celtics (KG era) that were practically built overnight through free agency and trades. Kobe/Shaq was the best of both worlds, and the Celtics are doing the same now.

The only problem is that if you're going to go down the path of developing young players, you have to actually stick with it and have patience, not to mention have a staff in place that's capable of cultivating that talent. We satisfy neither of those conditions, and that's why everyone's so down on the idea right now, but it's the execution of it that's our problem. The FO speaks out of both sides of their mouth and like to hype everything and everyone up (well, mostly Magic), but they're so desperate and impatient for results, that any plan they come up with is never going to get the proper time to actually work (or live up to their massively built up expectations of it) before they jump to the next big thing.

They seem to think they can just throw Lebron and a bunch of #2 picks into an instant pot and come out with a contender, but there's no thought being given to the little details that are actually required to make it work.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Like I said earlier. Tatum, Brown, Simmons, Embiid, NBA Finals Kawhi, OKC’s Big 3 (KD, WB, Harden), Finals Bynum are/we’re all young players who were developing and competing for championships at the same time. It can be done. The Lakers just don’t have the right players/development to do so.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject:

All our young players are our best players, that's why they play significant minutes. Lonzo is still battling Rondo for minutes even. Lance and KCP are not even starters on any playoff team worth a damn, so no need to give them more run.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

awntawn wrote:
The Raptors are that good because they developed their youth...


anyone catch the Raptors announcers giving credit for the Lakers rebuild to the Raptors via Jesse Mermuys the architect of their rebuild last night?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject:

I am convinced now that one or two of our young core can be traded. With the signing of Chandler and admonishing Luke, Magic is now all in on making the playoffs and contend.
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