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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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seems like some have a vested interest in some of the young core to fail to prop up their predictions  |
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LKA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Facts op.
Its not like we have a Kobe Bryant or Steph Curry in our youth anyways. I still believe Magic will trade some of them eventually |
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bandiger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Like I said earlier. Tatum, Brown, Simmons, Embiid, NBA Finals Kawhi, OKC’s Big 3 (KD, WB, Harden), Finals Bynum are/we’re all young players who were developing and competing for championships at the same time. It can be done. The Lakers just don’t have the right players/development to do so. |
Pretty much. |
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Black Sheep
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Like I said earlier. Tatum, Brown, Simmons, Embiid, NBA Finals Kawhi, OKC’s Big 3 (KD, WB, Harden), Finals Bynum are/we’re all young players who were developing and competing for championships at the same time. It can be done. The Lakers just don’t have the right players/development to do so. |
Pretty much. |
Depends on the mix of talent too.
Lakers have:
Kuzma - scorer
LeBron - scorer, assist
Rondo - holds ball, assist
Lonzo - great teammate. Does little of everything
Ingram - looks to score, defends a little
Hart - 3/D
Lance - ....
See a pattern? Too many of the same type of players. Kuzma turned into Clarkson 2.0. This older LeBron is a better version of Randle. The youth haven't developed much. If anything, we might just be worse than we were last season... |
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Lovefool
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| If we traded away our talent. We will not win a chip in the Lebron James era. If you don't get that, you really dont understand the cap and the fact that there is no trades that would net us the talent to become a contender. If we trade for a star, we gut the team and eat up any cap space to add a third star. We wont beat the warriors without atleast a bonafide 3rd star period. The only way we can do that is to get to next summers fre agency and secure the 2nd star with the cap spce first, then and only then can we trade for the third. So until then we develop one of our own or showcase for trade. Simple as that. I love our youth. I think our third star is on the team. We ain't winning this year, lets just try and make the playoffs and play our best players. And those are the young guys if you dont acually watch the games. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Developing youth is the wrong way to go |
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| nshid wrote: | After watching last night's debacle, I just don't get it. Why do teams today still develop youth?
If you really think about, most teams developing youth have no shot at winning and more than likely will trade those players before they even pan out. Oladipo is a great example, considering he was traded by the Orlando Magic. More than anything, young teams do not win championships. Considering our average age is below this threshold, we might want to let the veterans lead off games.
Look at the stats for the last 10 years:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6oim2n/a_look_into_the_average_age_of_the_last_10_nba
I'm all for young players because of their athleticism and potential but shouldn't they be allowed to develop naturally during the flow of the game behind the veterans. If we have stand-out young talent like LBJ or Kobe, of course we should make exceptions. But really, shouldn't some of these young players be on the bench earning their spots?  |
The last few dynasties have been built through the draft:
GS Warriors - Klay, Curry, Draymond
SA Spurs - Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Kawhi
Bulls - Jordan and Pippen
Lakers - only constants were Kobe and Fisher (the rest were acquired via FA or trades).
---------------------------
How many teams built via trades and free agency have sustained long runs?
Cleveland Cavs - 1 title
Miami Heat w/ Shaq- 1 title
Miami Heat w/ LeBron - 2 titles
Detroit Pistons - 1 title
Boston Celtics - 1 title
-------------------------------
But to answer the question why teams choose to build by developing the youth - it's a chicken or egg question really.
1) Why don't you just trade your youth for more established veterans? well, first, you have to develop them so they can become more valuable trade assets.
2) Why don't you just sign free agents? Well, free agents don't want to come to a situation that's bare. They want to see something first, so you have to draft and develop the youth and get them to win.
This is how the Rockets did it with Harden. They didn't draft him but they had enough assets to trade for him. Then, he blossomed so they were able to attract more pieces (such as Chris Paul).
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:06 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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PartyMan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Golden State developed their youth and won 1 of 2. Then subbed out Barnes for KD. Because they are all still relatively young, they will compete for titles for 5 more years after winning 3. Granted it’s best case scenario with what they have done.
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LKA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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GSW has Curry
Spurs had Duncan
Bulls had Jordan
We had Kobe
There is no MVP caliber player in our current young group unfortunately and thats the difference |
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| PhiberOptik wrote: | | I am convinced now that one or two of our young core can be traded. With the signing of Chandler and admonishing Luke, Magic is now all in on making the playoffs and contend. |
They have also constantly said they won’t be trading away for immediate success. They want long term success.
Magiks issue was with the lack of half court sets that the lakers have. |
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | After watching last night's debacle, I just don't get it. Why do teams today still develop youth?
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To get to where GSW is with Curry, Klay, and Draymond.
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Curry didn’t make the playoffs till his 4th season.
His age 24 year.
People forget BI and Zo just turned 21. Kuz and Hart are 23 I believe. Honestly if people really expected this team to look amazing to start the season, you were being delusion. It will take time and patience.
What needs to be seen is progression on half court offense and defense. Both will take time. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
I wouldnt say for a while .. they won 36 games with 2nd year Steph and ball hog Ellis in his way and nobody else on that team
The next year they drafted Klay and Curry barely played due to injuries
The year after that they won 47 games and it just went up from there
But you have to keep in mind that we dont have a Curry level prospect its not hate its just reality when you analyze our guys none of them have that kind of ceiling and its not their fault because guys like Steph are rare. Players that revolutionize the game. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
This is forgotten...a lot.
Having said that, Lakers signed Lebron and part of that package is LeCoach and LeGM. One call/meeting from Lebron and Luke could be gone or any player can be traded.
Just the way it is. Unless they pop, I expect one or two of the younger core guys not to be here next summer. It might come earlier depending on what Lebron wants. Cleveland, Miami, LA...this is how he operates. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Curry WAY overachieved his projected upside.
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bandiger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
Just no, they went to the playoffs by Klay's second year. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Steph did overachieve but you could still see from day 1 he was an incredible shooter he just perfected his craft and didnt sell himself short as the undersized shooting guard experts saw him as |
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
I wouldnt say for a while .. they won 36 games with 2nd year Steph and ball hog Ellis in his way and nobody else on that team
The next year they drafted Klay and Curry barely played due to injuries
The year after that they won 47 games and it just went up from there
But you have to keep in mind that we dont have a Curry level prospect its not hate its just reality when you analyze our guys none of them have that kind of ceiling and its not their fault because guys like Steph are rare. Players that revolutionize the game. |
Umm Curry wasn’t even the Curry level prospect. He was rubber ankle shooter that a lot didn’t even think could get past his injury issues to sustain long term. He became what he is today through years of hard work. He was hardly considered the hall of fame shooter he is now. |
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
Just no, they went to the playoffs by Klay's second year. |
Which was Curry’s 4th.
And thanks for making my point.
They were out in the 2nd round to the spurs. Won 47 games that season. |
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bandiger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Doc JC wrote: | | Do people forget that GS was pretty terrible for a while with Curry and Klay? |
I wouldnt say for a while .. they won 36 games with 2nd year Steph and ball hog Ellis in his way and nobody else on that team
The next year they drafted Klay and Curry barely played due to injuries
The year after that they won 47 games and it just went up from there
But you have to keep in mind that we dont have a Curry level prospect its not hate its just reality when you analyze our guys none of them have that kind of ceiling and its not their fault because guys like Steph are rare. Players that revolutionize the game. |
Curry has close to the same 3pt average in his rookie year so yeah Mark Jackson was blind as a bat in using him right. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Steph did overachieve but you could still see from day 1 he was an incredible shooter he just perfected his craft and didnt sell himself short as the undersized shooting guard experts saw him as |
"Perfected his craft"
So, how's Jimmer doing?
There's so many elite level NCAA shooters, some with rudimentary PG skills (like Curry did for his last year at Davidson), and that matured WAY faster than everyone else.
Can't scout that.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Curry WAY overachieved his projected upside. |
True.
Just noticed Okogie in your sig. He looks like a pretty good player, solid pick by Minnesota. |
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Fracture
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| We have to develop them. No one is beating the Warriors any time soon anyway. |
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Doc JC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just to recap
BI 3rd year - 21 years old
Zo 2nd year - 21 years old
Kuz 2nd year - 23 years old
Hart 2nd year - 23 years old
Klay was also a 3 year player for Washington St. He was 22 in his 2nd year. Curry was 24 when they made the playoffs. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Curry WAY overachieved his projected upside. |
True.
Just noticed Okogie in your sig. He looks like a pretty good player, solid pick by Minnesota. |
Not to derail the thread but my concerns with Okogie still show during the NBA games. Long arms and low release point = easily contested shot. Some real bad misses out there. Defensive motor, strength, length, base, all there for sure.
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