Developing youth is the wrong way to go
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
Lonzo isn't the issue. Kuzma is one of the biggest problems on this team right now.


Lonzo is also the issue. Truth is, BOTH those guys are the issue.

Laker7 wrote:
Lakers plus minus after 9 games:

...
Kuzma -19
Lonzo -45



That's a whopping -45 for Lonzo!

NEGATIVE FORTY FIVE.

Both are the bottom two amongst the team, but Lonzo more than doubles the negative of Kuzma.


This speaks more to our depth. Rondo has had a couple games where he was the difference maker in the game. That's obviously going to skew Lonzo's +/- this early in the season. As a huge Rondo fan I don't see him playing that way every night. Kuz was part of that 1st quarter butt-whooping by Toronto, so that will also skew things.

The young core do need to all step up. It feels like we've been taking every team's best shot this season. Lebron effect. Maybe they weren't prepared for that. They've all had slow starts but hopefully they step it up soon.


Just out of curiosity I looked up that TOR game. It did skew Kuzma's plus minus but it didn't for Lonzo. If you take it out of these numbers, basically plus minus after 8 games:

Kuzma -1
Lonzo -44
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
Lonzo isn't the issue. Kuzma is one of the biggest problems on this team right now.


Lonzo is also the issue. Truth is, BOTH those guys are the issue.

Laker7 wrote:
Lakers plus minus after 9 games:

...
Kuzma -19
Lonzo -45


That's a whopping -45 for Lonzo!

NEGATIVE FORTY FIVE.

Both are the bottom two amongst the team, but Lonzo more than doubles the negative of Kuzma.


Ball - +1.8 OBPM, -.7 DBPM, +.2 VORP
Kuzma - +.2 OBPM, -3.1 DPBM, -.1 VORP
Ingram - -3.9 OBPM, -1.9 DBPM, -.2 VORP

Lonzo is the only plus player out of that list. Kuzma's defensive numbers and Ingram's overall numbers are disgraceful.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
Lonzo isn't the issue. Kuzma is one of the biggest problems on this team right now.


Lonzo is also the issue. Truth is, BOTH those guys are the issue.

Laker7 wrote:
Lakers plus minus after 9 games:

...
Kuzma -19
Lonzo -45


That's a whopping -45 for Lonzo!

NEGATIVE FORTY FIVE.

Both are the bottom two amongst the team, but Lonzo more than doubles the negative of Kuzma.


Ball - +1.8 OBPM, -.7 DBPM, +.2 VORP
Kuzma - +.2 OBPM, -3.1 DPBM, -.1 VORP
Ingram - -3.9 OBPM, -1.9 DBPM, -.2 VORP

Lonzo is the only plus player out of that list. Kuzma's defensive numbers and Ingram's overall numbers are disgraceful.


To find a better balance, Hart has to be starting and Kuz off the bench as our assasin. Offense has not been a problem until last game. Hart is better on switching with bigs and better help defender and also more reliable shooter.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.


who is our all-star 5?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.


Boston isn’t the outlier. They should be the blue print. It started with Ainge being heartless and cut throat by trading all their aging stars to the thirstiest team. Bringing in a smart young coach. Competing with mediocre young pieces. Moving on from mediocre young pieces. Missed out on Durant but picking up Horford and Hayward in FA. Wisely drafted and developed Brown and Tatum. Compete compete compete.

We didn’t have to resign Kobe. We didn’t have to hire Byron Scott. We didn’t have to be mediocre at drafting high lottery pics. We didn’t have to have front office dysfunction and turning off FA’s like Aldridge, Durant, or a younger Lebron.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject:

The 80s Lakers were the blueprint before Boston.

Even when Kareem was aging, Nixon was traded for Scott. LAL was lucky to get Worthy and Magic. We scored on AC Green. Michael Cooper was a 3rd round pick that was DPOY. The vets, were mostly on the bench.

I don't think 10 games indicates "mediocrity." If anything it should sting just how well DAR is playing on both ends of the floor. Porzingis isn't even back from ACL injury.

If anything, we were fortunate to not acquire Aldridge, D12, or Melo during FA. Remember those years? Think Aldridge and LeBron make for a championship duo?

I sure as hell don't.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.


..................Boston W/L.......LA W/L.......Boston 1st Round......LA 1st Round
2010 - 11.......56 - 26..........57 -25.............#25.......................None
2011 - 12.......39 - 27..........41 - 25............#21, #22...............None
2012 - 13.......41 - 40..........45 - 37............#16.......................None
2013 - 14.......25 - 57..........27 - 55.............#6, #17................#7
2014 - 15.......40 - 42..........21 - 61............#16, #28...............#2, #27
2015 - 16.......48 - 34..........17 - 65............#3,#16, #23..........#2
2016 - 17.......53 - 29..........26 - 56............#3.........................#2, #27, #28
2017 - 18.......55 - 27..........35 - 47............#27.......................#25


My earlier post was written with the above in mind.

In recent drafts, Boston has had lottery picks #6, #3, #3 with only the #6 pick because of their own bad season. They would have had #8 in the 2018 draft if they hadn't traded it for Irving. Brooklyn did the extensive losing for the #3, #3 and the #8 that Boston traded for Irving.

In recent drafts, LA has had lottery picks #7, #2, #2 and #2 and the Lakers had to do their own extensive losing to get those picks.

Going through a lengthy losing (tanking) process to acquire multiple high lottery picks can put a tremendous strain on a team and its fans. The Lakers had to go through that process while the Celtics didn't because they had Brooklyn doing the losing for them.

With the Brooklyn picks in his back pocket, Ainge had Brad Stevens embark on team building right away. The Lakers had to stall things for several years to get those picks and it is taking a while to gain momentum again.

The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.


Last edited by Bard207 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho
Celtics are doing it in the east as well. never forget that.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.


..................Boston W/L.......LA W/L.......Boston 1st Round......LA 1st Round
2010 - 11.......56 - 26..........57 -25.............#25.......................None
2011 - 12.......39 - 27..........41 - 25............#21, #22...............None
2012 - 13.......41 - 40..........45 - 37............#16.......................None
2013 - 14.......25 - 57..........27 - 55.............#6, #17................#7
2014 - 15.......40 - 42..........21 - 61............#16, #28...............#2, #27
2015 - 16.......48 - 34..........17 - 65............#3,#16, #23..........#2
2016 - 17.......53 - 29..........26 - 56............#3.........................#2, #27, #28
2017 - 18.......55 - 27..........35 - 47............#27.......................#25


My earlier post was written with the above in mind.

In recent drafts, Boston has had lottery picks #6, #3, #3 with only the #6 pick because of their own bad season. They would have had #8 in the 2018 draft if they hadn't traded it for Irving. Brooklyn did the extensive losing for the #3, #3 and the #8 that Boston traded for Irving.

In recent drafts, LA has had lottery picks #7, #2, #2 and #2 and the Lakers had to do their own extensive losing to get those picks.

Going through a lengthy losing (tanking) process to acquire multiple high lottery picks can put a tremendous strain on a team and its fans. The Lakers had to go through that process while the Celtics didn't because they had Brooklyn doing the losing for them.

With the Brooklyn picks in his back pocket, Ainge had Brad Stevens embark on team building right away. The Lakers had to stall things for several years to get those picks and it is taking a while to gain momentum again.

The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.
excellent breakdown. but remember what happened. the nets gave them those picks for the C's to get rid of their old men and to pass them onto brooklyn trying to put butts in seats early on in their new move to BK. Imagine if that deal would've been nixed like our cp3 deal where we traded aging guys for a young cp3 and savings. C's would not be what they are today. which again goes back to "basketball reasons" why it has taken this long for us to rebuild.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.


You can develop youth and win at the same time. It's been proven for decades. It's definitely not unusual.

The only difference is the timing of the roster construction. Well guess what, GSW developed their youth and got FA cap space.

Boston. Same.

Lakers... are doing the same exact thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley, taking Lonzo over Tatum, letting Randle walk for nada not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Last edited by Killakobe81 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject:

Killakobe81 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley taking Lonzo over Tatum not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Lonzo over Tatum isn't a mistake. Go look at Tatum's "development year" right now.

But SA definitely was asking for the house for Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley taking Lonzo over Tatum not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Lonzo over Tatum isn't a mistake. Go look at Tatum's "development year" right now.

But SA definitely was asking for the house for Kawhi.


Just my opinion "pre-draft". Nothing is definitive either way yet ...on if I am right or wrong. Lonzo shows flashes (rarely) of being Kidd and Tatum of being a KD type scorer (also rare but more often than Zo) neither are consistent and Lonzo has better defensive upside but both are dealing with teams trying to integrate multiple significant pieces ...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
DA1 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Developing youth is one thing, competing for titles is another. It is unusual to combine the two successfully.


Agreed

Celtics are doing it right now too tho



The situation with the Brooklyn draft picks is not normal, so I would consider the Boston situation an outlier that should be ignored.


Boston's situation shouldn't be ignored. Neither should Milwaukee's, GSWs, or other elite teams.

HOU is breaking their franchise just to be competitive for just *1* year. Even then, they had to develop Capela just to get there. GSW keeps trying to add depth to compensate for cap issues. MIL is a great blend of youth and vets.

Boston, OTOH, is doing it like we are. The difference is, they got their All-Star 5 way earlier. The youth is still built around that. They were successful without Kyrie and Hayward. It may be the weak East, but that was still what, a 2nd round playoff?

You can absolutely do both at the same time. The difference is, that conclusion isn't determined after 10 games into a season.


..................Boston W/L.......LA W/L.......Boston 1st Round......LA 1st Round
2010 - 11.......56 - 26..........57 -25.............#25.......................None
2011 - 12.......39 - 27..........41 - 25............#21, #22...............None
2012 - 13.......41 - 40..........45 - 37............#16.......................None
2013 - 14.......25 - 57..........27 - 55.............#6, #17................#7
2014 - 15.......40 - 42..........21 - 61............#16, #28...............#2, #27
2015 - 16.......48 - 34..........17 - 65............#3,#16, #23..........#2
2016 - 17.......53 - 29..........26 - 56............#3.........................#2, #27, #28
2017 - 18.......55 - 27..........35 - 47............#27.......................#25


My earlier post was written with the above in mind.

In recent drafts, Boston has had lottery picks #6, #3, #3 with only the #6 pick because of their own bad season. They would have had #8 in the 2018 draft if they hadn't traded it for Irving. Brooklyn did the extensive losing for the #3, #3 and the #8 that Boston traded for Irving.

In recent drafts, LA has had lottery picks #7, #2, #2 and #2 and the Lakers had to do their own extensive losing to get those picks.

Going through a lengthy losing (tanking) process to acquire multiple high lottery picks can put a tremendous strain on a team and its fans. The Lakers had to go through that process while the Celtics didn't because they had Brooklyn doing the losing for them.

With the Brooklyn picks in his back pocket, Ainge had Brad Stevens embark on team building right away. The Lakers had to stall things for several years to get those picks and it is taking a while to gain momentum again.

The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.


Great point.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject:

Killakobe81 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley taking Lonzo over Tatum not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Lonzo over Tatum isn't a mistake. Go look at Tatum's "development year" right now.

But SA definitely was asking for the house for Kawhi.


Just my opinion "pre-draft". Nothing is definitive either way yet ...on if I am right or wrong. Lonzo shows flashes (rarely) of being Kidd and Tatum of being a KD type scorer (also rare but more often than Zo) neither are consistent and Lonzo has better defensive upside but both are dealing with teams trying to integrate multiple significant pieces ...


I had Tatum #3. Tatum doesn't change Laker pace or move the ball anymore.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley taking Lonzo over Tatum not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Lonzo over Tatum isn't a mistake. Go look at Tatum's "development year" right now.

But SA definitely was asking for the house for Kawhi.


Just my opinion "pre-draft". Nothing is definitive either way yet ...on if I am right or wrong. Lonzo shows flashes (rarely) of being Kidd and Tatum of being a KD type scorer (also rare but more often than Zo) neither are consistent and Lonzo has better defensive upside but both are dealing with teams trying to integrate multiple significant pieces ...


I had Tatum #3. Tatum doesn't change Laker pace or move the ball anymore.


Agreed and we already had Ingram (still high on him) But if Tatum flashes for us like he did for Celts his value as a trade piece would be much higher than Lonzo, do you agree with that? IMHO unless you are a deep contender you always take the best player available. heck not doing so even screwed over the Pistons in the Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Melo/Darko draft ...I thought Tatum was the best overall talent and I hate Duke.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

Killakobe81 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Maginka made a mistake not trading for Kawhi.


Pop did not want to trade KAwhi to Lakers ...so why do even our own fans keep saying this? Multiple sources said they wanted Kuzma/Ingram and multiple 1st round picks. Yet they took less from Raptors (upside-wise, not currently DD is better than both Ingram and Kuzma).

Call out legit mistakes: Signing Beasley taking Lonzo over Tatum not fake ones or pipe dreams.


Lonzo over Tatum isn't a mistake. Go look at Tatum's "development year" right now.

But SA definitely was asking for the house for Kawhi.


Just my opinion "pre-draft". Nothing is definitive either way yet ...on if I am right or wrong. Lonzo shows flashes (rarely) of being Kidd and Tatum of being a KD type scorer (also rare but more often than Zo) neither are consistent and Lonzo has better defensive upside but both are dealing with teams trying to integrate multiple significant pieces ...


I had Tatum #3. Tatum doesn't change Laker pace or move the ball anymore.


Agreed and we already had Ingram (still high on him) But if Tatum flashes for us like he did for Celts his value as a trade piece would be much higher than Lonzo, do you agree with that? IMHO unless you are a deep contender you always take the best player available. heck not doing so even screwed over the Pistons in the Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Melo/Darko draft ...I thought Tatum was the best overall talent and I hate Duke.


I thought Tatum had the highest floor because he was polished already with all the skills. Fultz, I was not on him like most people here and moreso when I see the Sixers trying to showcase him this year. Mitchell is the one I’m more impressed but I have doubts if he can have that impact. Lonzo, I’m pretty sure will have a huge impact regardless if develop his scoring skills. Even bigger impact if he can be consistent with his shooting.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Boston isn’t the outlier. They should be the blue print. It started with Ainge being heartless and cut throat by trading all their aging stars to the thirstiest team. Bringing in a smart young coach. Competing with mediocre young pieces. Moving on from mediocre young pieces. Missed out on Durant but picking up Horford and Hayward in FA. Wisely drafted and developed Brown and Tatum. Compete compete compete.

We didn’t have to resign Kobe. We didn’t have to hire Byron Scott. We didn’t have to be mediocre at drafting high lottery pics. We didn’t have to have front office dysfunction and turning off FA’s like Aldridge, Durant, or a younger Lebron.


I've been preaching this for a couple years. Unfortunately, at this point, it's an academic point. Magic is shooting for a quick fix solution.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

With the Lakers emphasis of winning now it would seem that the
young core has to produce or be traded or benched.
The previous years the emphasis was on developing the young core.
But if they are not somewhat developed by now, if the Lakers want to win they have to find established stars.
Or at least one more star.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.


I understand your point, but I think you're looking at it wrong. Ainge made Boston into an outlier. Ainge made the hard moves when he needed to. Ainge made the big trades when the opportunities were there. Ainge made savvy moves in free agency and the draft. Hell, he traded "down" from Fultz to Tatum and got draft picks tossed in. Before that, Brooklyn didn't just send all those draft picks to Boston as a Christmas present.

So yes, Boston is an outlier. The Warriors are an outlier. The Spurs have been an outlier since the late 1990s. So . . . why aren't we an outlier?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:

..................Boston W/L.......LA W/L.......Boston 1st Round......LA 1st Round
2010 - 11.......56 - 26..........57 -25.............#25.......................None
2011 - 12.......39 - 27..........41 - 25............#21, #22...............None
2012 - 13.......41 - 40..........45 - 37............#16.......................None
2013 - 14.......25 - 57..........27 - 55.............#6, #17................#7
2014 - 15.......40 - 42..........21 - 61............#16, #28...............#2, #27
2015 - 16.......48 - 34..........17 - 65............#3,#16, #23..........#2
2016 - 17.......53 - 29..........26 - 56............#3.........................#2, #27, #28
2017 - 18.......55 - 27..........35 - 47............#27.......................#25


My earlier post was written with the above in mind.

In recent drafts, Boston has had lottery picks #6, #3, #3 with only the #6 pick because of their own bad season. They would have had #8 in the 2018 draft if they hadn't traded it for Irving. Brooklyn did the extensive losing for the #3, #3 and the #8 that Boston traded for Irving.

In recent drafts, LA has had lottery picks #7, #2, #2 and #2 and the Lakers had to do their own extensive losing to get those picks.

Going through a lengthy losing (tanking) process to acquire multiple high lottery picks can put a tremendous strain on a team and its fans. The Lakers had to go through that process while the Celtics didn't because they had Brooklyn doing the losing for them.

With the Brooklyn picks in his back pocket, Ainge had Brad Stevens embark on team building right away. The Lakers had to stall things for several years to get those picks and it is taking a while to gain momentum again.

The above is why I classify the current Celtics as an outlier compared to other teams in the league.


So the celtics basically outsourced their tanking to New Jersey. Too bad the Lakers couldn't do the same since nobody in their division (heck, you can extend that to the entire conference) is willing to make the kind of deals with them like in Boston's division.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
With the Lakers emphasis of winning now it would seem that the
young core has to produce or be traded or benched.
The previous years the emphasis was on developing the young core.
But if they are not somewhat developed by now, if the Lakers want to win they have to find established stars.
Or at least one more star.


Agreed. This is a by product of signing Lebron and Magic being impatient because of the 4 year contract.
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