The Hype and Expectations of our #2 Picks (via Magic Johnson)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject:

Plenty of people have hyped our young guys. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Steven A, KOC. I just think people like hating on Magic. Not sure if it’s the way he looks or the way his voice sounds or his massive amounts of money and success, but there are some people who treat Magic worse than Jim Buss. Like Magic has no clue about basketball or Magic slipped and fell into his fortune.

If Magic wasn’t here you guys would still be stuck with MozDeng, no big free agents, Jim Buss, Chaz the Bartender, a divided front office, the 2018 version of Robert Sacre, neck tattooed Jordan Clarkson (google it), and Dave20.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Plenty of people have hyped our young guys. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Steven A, KOC. I just think people like hating on Magic. Not sure if it’s the way he looks or the way his voice sounds or his massive amounts of money and success, but there are some people who treat Magic worse than Jim Buss. Like Magic has no clue about basketball or Magic slipped and fell into his fortune.

If Magic wasn’t here you guys would still be stuck with MozDeng, no big free agents, Jim Buss, Chaz the Bartender, a divided front office, the 2018 version of Robert Sacre, neck tattooed Jordan Clarkson (google it), and Dave20.

I gotta know who this Dave20 guy is now
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Plenty of people have hyped our young guys. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Steven A, KOC. I just think people like hating on Magic. Not sure if it’s the way he looks or the way his voice sounds or his massive amounts of money and success, but there are some people who treat Magic worse than Jim Buss. Like Magic has no clue about basketball or Magic slipped and fell into his fortune.

If Magic wasn’t here you guys would still be stuck with MozDeng, no big free agents, Jim Buss, Chaz the Bartender, a divided front office, the 2018 version of Robert Sacre, neck tattooed Jordan Clarkson (google it), and Dave20.


Nance/Clarkson for LeBron. Best trade ever.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I hope fans realize that Zo is 20 and BI is 21, we have already seen there Impact on games, and they are no where near a finished product, Zo is still progressing from his off season surgery and BI is still adapting to the new players... let’s give these guys 20-25 games before calling them wasted picks.


The problem is the teams expectations to win are higher now.They can still take time to develope one of them But I doubt both imo.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Plenty of people have hyped our young guys. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Steven A, KOC. I just think people like hating on Magic. Not sure if it’s the way he looks or the way his voice sounds or his massive amounts of money and success, but there are some people who treat Magic worse than Jim Buss. Like Magic has no clue about basketball or Magic slipped and fell into his fortune.

If Magic wasn’t here you guys would still be stuck with MozDeng, no big free agents, Jim Buss, Chaz the Bartender, a divided front office, the 2018 version of Robert Sacre, neck tattooed Jordan Clarkson (google it), and Dave20.

I gotta know who this Dave20 guy is now


The GOAT Jordan Clarkson fan. Thought JC could be Kobe-level lofl.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Unfortunately, we are putting way to much pressure on our young core and not let them develop organically. Now Magic is expecting the Lakers to win. But what if we don't win? Does magic trade them away? It took a lot of superstars 3-5 years to develop and be a force in the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
trablos wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Plenty of people have hyped our young guys. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Steven A, KOC. I just think people like hating on Magic. Not sure if it’s the way he looks or the way his voice sounds or his massive amounts of money and success, but there are some people who treat Magic worse than Jim Buss. Like Magic has no clue about basketball or Magic slipped and fell into his fortune.

If Magic wasn’t here you guys would still be stuck with MozDeng, no big free agents, Jim Buss, Chaz the Bartender, a divided front office, the 2018 version of Robert Sacre, neck tattooed Jordan Clarkson (google it), and Dave20.

I gotta know who this Dave20 guy is now


The GOAT Jordan Clarkson fan. Thought JC could be Kobe-level lofl.


“Westbrook-lite if he got the opportunity” I always wonder if he is creeping around under a new username. Hope his Wells Fargo account is still doin well.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

"Also, Zubac reminds me of Pau Gasol, Svi has those Larry Bird skills, and and Bonga is showing us some flashes of Kobe."
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I hope fans realize that Zo is 20 and BI is 21, we have already seen there Impact on games, and they are no where near a finished product, Zo is still progressing from his off season surgery and BI is still adapting to the new players... let’s give these guys 20-25 games before calling them wasted picks.


We've seen them impact games for sure, but its been in a supporting capacity. I think people are coming around to understanding that they are auxiliary players, not centre pieces and that's okay.
Of course you hope for more when you draft @ #2 but at least they're not Okafor. They're gonna get better for sure being young players but we mustn't delude ourselves into thinking its often it happens that players go from craven to brave or very marked chasms in skill sets are so easily bridged.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:30 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I hope fans realize that Zo is 20 and BI is 21, we have already seen there Impact on games, and they are no where near a finished product, Zo is still progressing from his off season surgery and BI is still adapting to the new players... let’s give these guys 20-25 games before calling them wasted picks.


Zo and Ingram are the same age (21) despite Ingram being drafted a year earlier. BI is actually only a month older than Zo.

We've been saying to give them another 20-25 games since last year. TBH it's just difficult to see 19 year old prospects like Doncic, JJJ, and even Knox come into Staples and perform like budding stars while our guys have stagnated and haven't improved at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:40 am    Post subject:

I love these posts. They always seem to surface after our team has a tough stretch (just like EVERY team in the league suffers at some point during the season). Nobody was complaining when we looked great (when healthy) and kicked the crap out of the Warriors. We are very shorthanded, so what did anyone expect. Everyone seems to become ROBO GM's when things are bad. I would like to remind some of where we were just a couple of years ago and where we are today. Now Magic gets hammered because he hyped up teenagers. What did anyone expect him to say: "We drafted this kid, but he sucks and will not have a prosperous career. We took him to help us in our pursuit of the tank." Come on folks. Get a grip. Its a GREAT time to be a Laker fan, and things are only going to be better. Don't let a few bad losses because we are extremely shorthanded derail you.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:54 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I hope fans realize that Zo is 20 and BI is 21, we have already seen there Impact on games, and they are no where near a finished product, Zo is still progressing from his off season surgery and BI is still adapting to the new players... let’s give these guys 20-25 games before calling them wasted picks.


My problem with this contention is that ignores those certain benchmarks all developing players should have reached with these players' time in the NBA.

First, neither Ball nor Ingram SHOW any leadership skills. Being poised is fine; Tim Duncan was very poised. But when he needed to physically demonstrate passion, he did. Clapping your hands, pulling your team over in a huddle, calling a players only meeting yelling, doing something physically that's out of the ordinary for you. You have to SHOW passion. A quality leader can SHOW passion and still carry a controlled demeanor. Ball and Ingram just don't have this within them.

Second, fundamentals. Along with missing freethrows; both players tend to miss too many layups and close-in jumpshots. Being a well rounded NBA professional means having a viable skill set in all facets of the game, and you win games by outscoring the opponent. Whie I like Ball's defense and Ingrams length, neither Ball or Ingram can even make relatively easy shots, let alone skill shots. As such, they have little impact on winning games.

Third, intangibles. When Ball plays, he keeps that same "Duh, I'm stoopid" expression on his face, and Ingram always looks like he's half asleep. And then we have their post-game interviews. Ball's team is on a losing streak, losing winnable games, he's playing like sht, and all he gives us is those same, tired, rehearsed talking point lines. That same deflective stuff that shows us fans NOTHING. I want these players to get nasty out there, show that they're pissed off that they're losing. Show some intensity on the court and off. We get nothing from them, and that can't be learned, it's just either in you or not. Kobe had it in him day one. Jordan, Shaq, Magic, Bird, all the great players always played with passion. Can't say that about Ball and Ingram.

I can be patient for certain things, but from what I see, Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram don't have the pedigree to be leaders, they are not skilled offensively, and they show no passion, nor desire to win.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
I love these posts. They always seem to surface after our team has a tough stretch (just like EVERY team in the league suffers at some point during the season). Nobody was complaining when we looked great (when healthy) and kicked the crap out of the Warriors. We are very shorthanded, so what did anyone expect. Everyone seems to become ROBO GM's when things are bad. I would like to remind some of where we were just a couple of years ago and where we are today. Now Magic gets hammered because he hyped up teenagers. What did anyone expect him to say: "We drafted this kid, but he sucks and will not have a prosperous career. We took him to help us in our pursuit of the tank." Come on folks. Get a grip. Its a GREAT time to be a Laker fan, and things are only going to be better. Don't let a few bad losses because we are extremely shorthanded derail you.


The measure of a person's character is best realized in times of peril.

Who these Lakers are is revealed during trying times, and we are seeing what they are. It's always easy when you win, but no team always wins, so I need to see what my young players do when they lose...and so far, I'm not impressed.

There are three types of fans; bandwagoners, who know little about the game, but watch only because it's trendy to do so. Cheerleaders, who are pie in the sky, everything will be just fine types, often ignoring reality in the process. And analyzers, people like me who strongly desire championships and question/challenge players who fail to contribute to that. I'm cool with all sorts of fans; each has their merit, but I'm not backing away from critiquing my Lakers when there is clearly something wrong.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
I love these posts. They always seem to surface after our team has a tough stretch (just like EVERY team in the league suffers at some point during the season). Nobody was complaining when we looked great (when healthy) and kicked the crap out of the Warriors. We are very shorthanded, so what did anyone expect. Everyone seems to become ROBO GM's when things are bad. I would like to remind some of where we were just a couple of years ago and where we are today. Now Magic gets hammered because he hyped up teenagers. What did anyone expect him to say: "We drafted this kid, but he sucks and will not have a prosperous career. We took him to help us in our pursuit of the tank." Come on folks. Get a grip. Its a GREAT time to be a Laker fan, and things are only going to be better. Don't let a few bad losses because we are extremely shorthanded derail you.


The measure of a person's character is best realized in times of peril.

Who these Lakers are is revealed during trying times, and we are seeing what they are. It's always easy when you win, but no team always wins, so I need to see what my young players do when they lose...and so far, I'm not impressed.

There are three types of fans; bandwagoners, who know little about the game, but watch only because it's trendy to do so. Cheerleaders, who are pie in the sky, everything will be just fine types, often ignoring reality in the process. And analyzers, people like me who strongly desire championships and question/challenge players who fail to contribute to that. I'm cool with all sorts of fans; each has their merit, but I'm not backing away from critiquing my Lakers when there is clearly something wrong.


A critique (however meaningful or purposeful) loses validity when it is formulated while players are not placed in their intended or respective roles. During these trying times (a whopping week), our pups have been in placed in short term roles which they are not ready for. The lack of scoring on the floor clearly illuminates the deficiencies of our kids. Again, this is a short term problem. We were actually playing VERY WELL and I believe we were AHEAD of schedule before the injury bug hit us. This is a team that has maybe played 7 or 8 games at full strength (I know it is part of the game). I thought our kids were starting to adapt well before the injuries. If anyone expects BI to be a #1 scoring option or Zo to be a #2, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment. I am happy how we were playing before the injuries and look forward to the playoffs this year. I trust the process and am waiting to see the finished product (with or without these kids) next season. How anyone wants to classify fans really does not matter (as long as they are Laker fans). The analogy of measuring a persons character (in my opinion) has nothing to do with playing a silly game.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject:

Lakers are just unlucky in those years, the drop off between 1st and 2nd picks are huge, while the difference between those 2nd picks and the subsequent picks are very much debatable. imagine if we had Towns instead DLO, Simmons instead of Ingram? pingpong balls just didn't fall our way, what can you do.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject:

Oh so now you guys want a quite mitch and jim front office again. L O L

you guys are hilarious. basically the narrative moves when things dont go right.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:07 am    Post subject:

Everything will come together by the end of the season. Our guys do not give up.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Everything will come together by the end of the season. Our guys do not give up.


Truth!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

daytripper wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I hope fans realize that Zo is 20 and BI is 21, we have already seen there Impact on games, and they are no where near a finished product, Zo is still progressing from his off season surgery and BI is still adapting to the new players... let’s give these guys 20-25 games before calling them wasted picks.


Zo and Ingram are the same age (21) despite Ingram being drafted a year earlier. BI is actually only a month older than Zo.

We've been saying to give them another 20-25 games since last year. TBH it's just difficult to see 19 year old prospects like Doncic, JJJ, and even Knox come into Staples and perform like budding stars while our guys have stagnated and haven't improved at all.


People were saying that in Zo's rookie year?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:23 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Lakers are just unlucky in those years, the drop off between 1st and 2nd picks are huge, while the difference between those 2nd picks and the subsequent picks are very much debatable. imagine if we had Towns instead DLO, Simmons instead of Ingram? pingpong balls just didn't fall our way, what can you do.


That's like the complete opposite then. That's like ping pong balls always falling our way.

I think we had like a 13% chance or something of getting the no. 1 pick in each of those years?

It's funny at the time, we all felt lucky to even get the no. 2 pick 3 years in row. We were all just hoping to keep the picks (as they were top 3 protected).

Now, the narrative is - the ping pong balls DIDN'T fall our way.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
troy wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
I love these posts. They always seem to surface after our team has a tough stretch (just like EVERY team in the league suffers at some point during the season). Nobody was complaining when we looked great (when healthy) and kicked the crap out of the Warriors. We are very shorthanded, so what did anyone expect. Everyone seems to become ROBO GM's when things are bad. I would like to remind some of where we were just a couple of years ago and where we are today. Now Magic gets hammered because he hyped up teenagers. What did anyone expect him to say: "We drafted this kid, but he sucks and will not have a prosperous career. We took him to help us in our pursuit of the tank." Come on folks. Get a grip. Its a GREAT time to be a Laker fan, and things are only going to be better. Don't let a few bad losses because we are extremely shorthanded derail you.


The measure of a person's character is best realized in times of peril.

Who these Lakers are is revealed during trying times, and we are seeing what they are. It's always easy when you win, but no team always wins, so I need to see what my young players do when they lose...and so far, I'm not impressed.

There are three types of fans; bandwagoners, who know little about the game, but watch only because it's trendy to do so. Cheerleaders, who are pie in the sky, everything will be just fine types, often ignoring reality in the process. And analyzers, people like me who strongly desire championships and question/challenge players who fail to contribute to that. I'm cool with all sorts of fans; each has their merit, but I'm not backing away from critiquing my Lakers when there is clearly something wrong.


A critique (however meaningful or purposeful) loses validity when it is formulated while players are not placed in their intended or respective roles. During these trying times (a whopping week), our pups have been in placed in short term roles which they are not ready for. The lack of scoring on the floor clearly illuminates the deficiencies of our kids. Again, this is a short term problem. We were actually playing VERY WELL and I believe we were AHEAD of schedule before the injury bug hit us. This is a team that has maybe played 7 or 8 games at full strength (I know it is part of the game). I thought our kids were starting to adapt well before the injuries. If anyone expects BI to be a #1 scoring option or Zo to be a #2, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment. I am happy how we were playing before the injuries and look forward to the playoffs this year. I trust the process and am waiting to see the finished product (with or without these kids) next season. How anyone wants to classify fans really does not matter (as long as they are Laker fans). The analogy of measuring a persons character (in my opinion) has nothing to do with playing a silly game.



It's not just struggles this past week. Ingram and Ball have been inefficient all year. Sure, they have their occassional good games, but neither Ingram or Ball have shown the sort of growth we should see. Now, sure we can be patient, and that's fine if we're on a team like the Suns. But this is the Lakers. We got rid of Jim Buss, we got Magic in here, a whole new front office, and we got Lebron. Being patient is no longer and option, especially when growth is so slow.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject:

Just posted this in the other draftees thread but thought it might be good for some discussion.

Quote:
Just for fun, I went back and pulled all the draftees from the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons. I sorted them by career VORP.

I also removed any players who have not met the following criteria:
- Minimum of HALF the seasons played per season average (so for 2015 players, that would be 140 games, for 2016 players that would be 100 games, and so on)
- Minimum of 20.0 MPG average over their career

I think we can safely assume any player who has not played in at least half of games in which they are eligible, and in those games, play at least 20 MPG, are ineligible for comparison. Here's what I got:

2015 Draftees - Career VORP (16 of 60 players eligible)
Karl-Anthony Towns
Myles Turner
Larry Nance
Josh Richardson
Willie Cauley-Stein
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Justise Winslow
Frank Kaminsky
Devin Booker
Stanley Johnson
Andrew Harrison
Kelly Oubre
Jahlil Okafor
Emmanuel Mudiay

2016 Draftees - Career VORP (14 of 60 players eligible)
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam
Malcolm Brogdon
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Caris LeVert
Domantas Sabonis
Kris Dunn
Taurean Waller-Prince
Denzel Valentine
Jaylen Brown
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender
Brandon Ingram
Tyler Ulis

2017 Draftees - Career VORP (17 of 60 players eligible)
Jayson Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
Lonzo Ball
John Collins
Jarrett Allen
Bam Adebayo
Josh Hart
OG Anunoby
Kyle Kuzma
Jonathan Isaac
Lauri Markkanen
Dennis Smith
Justin Jackson
De'Aaron Fox
Dillon Brooks
Frank Ntilikina
Josh Jackson
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Just posted this in the other draftees thread but thought it might be good for some discussion.

Quote:
Just for fun, I went back and pulled all the draftees from the 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons. I sorted them by career VORP.

I also removed any players who have not met the following criteria:
- Minimum of HALF the seasons played per season average (so for 2015 players, that would be 140 games, for 2016 players that would be 100 games, and so on)
- Minimum of 20.0 MPG average over their career

I think we can safely assume any player who has not played in at least half of games in which they are eligible, and in those games, play at least 20 MPG, are ineligible for comparison. Here's what I got:

2015 Draftees - Career VORP (16 of 60 players eligible)
Karl-Anthony Towns
Myles Turner
Larry Nance
Josh Richardson
Willie Cauley-Stein
Kristaps Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Justise Winslow
Frank Kaminsky
Devin Booker
Stanley Johnson
Andrew Harrison
Kelly Oubre
Jahlil Okafor
Emmanuel Mudiay

2016 Draftees - Career VORP (14 of 60 players eligible)
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam
Malcolm Brogdon
Buddy Hield
Jamal Murray
Caris LeVert
Domantas Sabonis
Kris Dunn
Taurean Waller-Prince
Denzel Valentine
Jaylen Brown
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender
Brandon Ingram
Tyler Ulis

2017 Draftees - Career VORP (17 of 60 players eligible)
Jayson Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
Lonzo Ball
John Collins
Jarrett Allen
Bam Adebayo
Josh Hart
OG Anunoby
Kyle Kuzma
Jonathan Isaac
Lauri Markkanen
Dennis Smith
Justin Jackson
De'Aaron Fox
Dillon Brooks
Frank Ntilikina
Josh Jackson


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