Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Menchies: "An Uncomfortable Feeling"
Quote:
Civil-rights activists, upset after a black man was told by police to leave a Kirkland yogurt shop after employees said he made them feel uncomfortable, protested outside the store Tuesday and threatened to file a lawsuit.
The shop, Menchie’s Frozen Yogurt, was closed Tuesday. A pagelong note on the front door indicated employees were undergoing training and included an apology for the handling of the incident, similar to one issued Monday by the Kirkland Police Department.
Ragland, 31, is both a court-appointed special advocate and a visitation supervisor, so his job is to oversee meetings between kids and the parents who have lost custody of them.
That’s what he was doing at the store — he was supervising an outing between a mother and her 12-year-old son. The boy wanted ice cream, so the three drove to Menchie’s, arrived together and had been sitting there for about half an hour, visiting, when Ragland looked up to find two police officers standing at the table.
“They asked me to leave,” Ragland said. “They asked for my ID. They told me the manager had been watching me and wanted me to move along.”
Ragland did “move along,” he says — though that phrase, as if he were a stray dog, made him bristle. The police report reflects that the Kirkland officers were told he was there working. In fact he was legally required to be there overseeing the mother and son.
“Ragland had two associates (female adult and male juvenile) with him, who stated they were there with him for visitation,” the report says. They were asked to leave anyway, and they did.
Just Another Wednesday _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Ehh... I don't see how White Supremacy has anything to do with this as mentioned in the article. I'm sure there's video. _________________ "Dread it, run from it... destiny arrives all the same."
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:11 pm Post subject:
PLATNUM wrote:
Ehh... I don't see how White Supremacy has anything to do with this as mentioned in the article. I'm sure there's video.
"White Supremacy" with the capital letters?
Probably not.
White privilege and the distrust and fear based on color alone that go with it?
No doubt.
The guy was doing nothing wrong. All the parties involved with him stated he had a legitimate reason to be there. The only reason that this situation become an issue was because someone saw someone of color in their presence and didn't like that - so they came up with a BS narrative that the person was "making them uncomfortable" despite the fact that there was no evidence of why that would be - outside of race. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Many readers, maybe about half, seemed spectacularly resistant to accepting that anything wrong happened in that Kirkland yogurt shop incident that ended with police telling a black man to leave. A sociologist who got her Ph.D. at the UW coined a term for this phenomenon: white fragility.
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“He was acting suspicious. The first thing I would have thought of would have been child molester.”
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Why didn’t he check in at the yogurt store or show some credentials to announce what he was doing? This is not a racism issue … it’s manners.”
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“He set the whole thing up to get publicity and people were dumb enough to give it to him. Shame on you.”
DiAngelo, who got her Ph.D. from the University of Washington in 2004, dubbed this phenomenon “white fragility,” and has a new book by the same name. It’s a “disbelieving defensiveness” that we whites persistently show about issues of race, often taking our denials to the point of absurdity.
By now everyone who was within a mile of this incident has apologized — the store owner, the yogurt chain, the police, the city of Kirkland.
Yet despite these apologies by the people involved, hundreds of readers have insisted in emails and phone calls to me that not only did nothing wrong happen here, but race couldn’t possibly have had a thing to do with it
Some concocted elaborate alternative sets of facts, or asked obtuse hypothetical questions, in service of willfully misunderstanding the story. Such as the one above, in which Ragland was supposed to “check in” and “show credentials” at, yes, a fro-yo shop. Because he did not do this, it followed that he deserved to have the police called on him.
At the risk of lapsing into the tediously obvious, I have been out for ice cream with kids dozens of times. I don’t think I’ve ever bought anything for myself, because … wait for it … I was there for the kids. Suspicious! And then I sat around waiting, often at a distant table so I could get some peace checking my phone. Child molester!
“Try bringing a sack lunch to Canlis, stroll through the door, invite your friends and bring your own booze. Pretty close to the same thing,” hypothesized another reader.
I’ll repeat, slower this time: Ragland went there with a mom and kid who bought ice cream. So no, not at all the same as guerrilla drinking at Canlis.
It went on like this. Some readers said Ragland should have smiled more. Some said he should have worn a badge. Dozens of readers called him a cheapskate and a loiterer for not buying yogurt himself, even though he was working and was with people who did.
One reader said that as a middle-aged white man he has a personal policy of never going to Chuck E. Cheese’s by himself. So therefore, by some transitive property of racial math, this Kirkland incident was Ragland’s fault and didn’t involve bias of any kind.
White Fragility _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
I'm black and I'm kinda on the fence on this one. I do think in a situation like this the guy should have let the people know what he was doing because black white purple it does look a bit sketchy to go in a small shop like that and just staring away. But for the employees part they took it too far... should have first politely talked to him to gauge him out like saying "sir if you waiting for someone you are welcome to sample some of our yogurts while you wait". _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
2. One of the 3 people purchase an item for themselves and a child.
3. Woman and child sit at one table and chat.
4. Accompanying man sits at an adjacent table and scans his phone
5. Man feels eyes staring at him and continues to scan his phone, occasionally looking up because he's got the eebie jeebies that some freaky people keep staring at him and whispering for no apparent reason.
6. Then the freaky starring people get on the phone and call their boss to let him know that somebody is in the store scanning his phone.
7. Store owner views surveillence camera and sees that indeed somebody is sitting there scanning his phone, Decides it's worth a call to 911 to report the felony phone scanning.
8 911 (mind you emergency was called and not non emergency) asks what the individual is doing. Store owner states that his is sitting and scanning his phone. 911 asks if the patron is being disruptive? Store owner replies, no he's just scanning his phone. 911 asks for a description of the patron. Owner replies - African American, and we've had problems with homeless people coming in before and doing drugs in the restroom, and we've had a prior robbery. (What on earth that has to do with this particular professionally dressed patron? Who knows??)
9. Police come to instruct felony phone scanner to leave. Fekony phone scanner guy identifies hinself as an officer of the court and explains his presence.
10. Felony phone scanner guy complies with Police demand without incident, and Police also demand that Felony mom and child visitors take their ice cream and leave as well.
To some people, this is just another normal wednesday in a society of freedom.
To some people, this is the antithesis of freedom, because folks should be expected to show their papers to confirm their legitimacy. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:29 am Post subject:
Aussiesuede wrote:
911 asks for a description of the patron. Owner replies - African American, and we've had problems with homeless people coming in before and doing drugs in the restroom, and we've had a prior robbery. (What on earth that has to do with this particular professionally dressed patron? Who knows??)
Can we guess?
Quote:
To some people, this is the antithesis of freedom, because some folks should be expected to show their papers to confirm their legitimacy.
Spot on. Just tweaked it a bit for better accuracy. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:35 am Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
I'm black and I'm kinda on the fence on this one. I do think in a situation like this the guy should have let the people know what he was doing because black white purple it does look a bit sketchy to go in a small shop like that and just staring away. But for the employees part they took it too far... should have first politely talked to him to gauge him out like saying "sir if you waiting for someone you are welcome to sample some of our yogurts while you wait".
This makes me wonder if we should be educating people of all races in school on how to improve social IQ. Last night I had dinner with my brother in law. The guy has the highest social IQ of anyone I know. It’s just amazing to watch people gravitate to him. By the end of our dinner, the server was recommending other restaurants he should go to, hanging out at our table laughing it up. Not coincidentally, my brother in law is also a very successful entrepreneur.
I think about how he might have handled this situation and I think you are spot on. If he was the customer, he either would have engaged the workers to make them feel comfortable. If he was the owner or a worker, he would have naturally engaged with the awkward customer, made him feel comfortable, welcome, a part of the family. If he suspected wrongdoing, he would have coaxed him to leave and the guy would hug him on the way out.
Instead, you have a guy sitting awkwardly alone at small shop making people nervous. Also a bunch of nervous workers unsure of what to do so they resort to calling 911?
Now if the workers or the owners are white supremicists, this all goes out the window. There are scenarios where no amount of social IQ will help. This may or may not be one of those scenarios.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:48 am Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Do really need all of these race baiting threads? I thought The Political Thread was the designated outrage zone for the board.
If you call this "race baiting", then clearly we do.
But I can understand why you would prefer such discussions be hidden away in a place you are too afraid to venture in to. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:50 am Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'm black and I'm kinda on the fence on this one. I do think in a situation like this the guy should have let the people know what he was doing because black white purple it does look a bit sketchy to go in a small shop like that and just staring away. But for the employees part they took it too far... should have first politely talked to him to gauge him out like saying "sir if you waiting for someone you are welcome to sample some of our yogurts while you wait".
This makes me wonder if we should be educating people of all races in school on how to improve social IQ. Last night I had dinner with my brother in law. The guy has the highest social IQ of anyone I know. It’s just amazing to watch people gravitate to him. By the end of our dinner, the server was recommending other restaurants he should go to, hanging out at our table laughing it up. Not coincidentally, my brother in law is also a very successful entrepreneur.
I think about how he might have handled this situation and I think you are spot on. If he was the customer, he either would have engaged the workers to make them feel comfortable. If he was the owner or a worker, he would have naturally engaged with the awkward customer, made him feel comfortable, welcome, a part of the family. If he suspected wrongdoing, he would have coaxed him to leave and the guy would hug him on the way out.
Instead, you have a guy sitting awkwardly alone at small shop making people nervous. Also a bunch of nervous workers unsure of what to do so they resort to calling 911?
Now if the workers or the owners are white supremicists, this all goes out the window. There are scenarios where no amount of social IQ will help. This may or may not be one of those scenarios.
Just curious, how often do you see a white guy kicked out of a coffee shop for ice cream store etc. for sitting by himself and looking at his phone. Because if sitting by yourself and looking at your phone are grounds for getting booted from an establishment, then managesr are going to be too busy calling cops and kicking people out to actually conduct business. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
This makes me wonder if we should be educating people of all races in school on how to improve social IQ. Last night I had dinner with my brother in law. The guy has the highest social IQ of anyone I know. It’s just amazing to watch people gravitate to him. By the end of our dinner, the server was recommending other restaurants he should go to, hanging out at our table laughing it up. Not coincidentally, my brother in law is also a very successful entrepreneur.
I think about how he might have handled this situation and I think you are spot on. If he was the customer, he either would have engaged the workers to make them feel comfortable. If he was the owner or a worker, he would have naturally engaged with the awkward customer, made him feel comfortable, welcome, a part of the family. If he suspected wrongdoing, he would have coaxed him to leave and the guy would hug him on the way out.
Instead, you have a guy sitting awkwardly alone at small shop making people nervous. Also a bunch of nervous workers unsure of what to do so they resort to calling 911?
Now if the workers or the owners are white supremicists, this all goes out the window. There are scenarios where no amount of social IQ will help. This may or may not be one of those scenarios.
For the sake of clarity:
1. There were two female workers present at the time. One who'd just came on shift, and another who'd just ended her shift, but remained on premises because she was suspicious of the patron.
2. The manager was not on the premises. He (Ramon Cruz, a self described Asian?) was called by his employee and then viewed the patron via surveillance camera from a remote location. Then the manager was the one to call 911 and offer a secondhand description based on what he was viewing on the camera.
3. Neither the manager, nor his employee(s), ever witnessed, nor suspected, wrongdoing on the part of the patron. The employee simply stated she felt uncomfortable (no furthur explanation given for the discomfort).
4) There were no other patrons in the shop at the time. Just the 3 who'd arrived together.
5) The woman and child accompanying the Black man were White. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
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