Face Facts:there is no "2nd best player" on the team.
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17065

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Face Facts:there is no "2nd best player" on the team.

Those of us who predicted a deep playoff run with this team did so with the expectation that one of our "young core" players would make a leap playing next to LBJ and have a breakout season. The reality:

Lonzo - recovering from surgery, missed valuable training time this summer, whatever. Dude is a sub 40% shooter, almost as bad at the FT line and runs away from open shots.

Ingram - OK he's playing out of position. But in our uptempo-spread-the-rock-run-and-stun system, dude is a ball-stopper and has more turnovers than assists. Sleepwalks when the ball's not in his hands.

Kuzma - Dude has GREAT "swag" - looks like he ought to be a killer and is not afraid to take the shot. Sadly, he is unable to hit the shot, as he takes an impressive 5.1 three-pointers per game and hits at a patheticly low 29%. And he's wide open a lot.

Hart - Always seems to give a great effort on the defensive end and is a great value for where we got him . . . but disappears on offense and seems to lead the team in getting beat on backdoor cuts. What is his upside, really? Mario Elie? Homeless man's Ginobili? or a younger Shannon Brown?

ALL of these guys have the capacity to improve - but we have to be realistic as to what their ceilings are. Kuz & Hart are 23 & (nearly) 24 - most players have defined their destinies by 24/25. Ball & Ingram have a little more time, but neither has shown superstar upside thus far.

BOTTOM LINE (AND WE MAY HAVE MISSED THE BOAT FOR THIS YEAR):: the Lakers shouldn't be wedded to ANY of these guys if the opportunity comes to move them for a high impact player.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Fortysixn2
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

I’d agree that we don’t have a true #2 on the team. Kuz and Hart are ideally bench players on a championship team, BI should be traded as he doesn’t fit what we are doing and his defense sucks and I think Lonzo is ultimately the #3 guy in a championship team who is basically a defensive specialist who will learn to score 10-12 points a game consistently and dish the ball and rebound.

That’s why it was so crucial to keep a max slot open this summer so that hopefully we can sign a #2. Bless Randles Heart, but he is in the Kuz/Hart territory. Signing him to a long term deal and sacrificing a max slot this and next offseason would leave us as a 6-8 playoff seed for Lebrons entire stay here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject:

And one of the biggest challenges I think for teams that don't have a pecking order, is that you get this sort of bystander effect where no one feels like they are the one that needs to step up their game.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject:

There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


Yeah. Based on how the LBJ FA went down, if they sit tight at the trade deadline I have a better feeling about a good max FA coming.

Obviously if they trade and eat space, they heard through the wink-vine that it's not happening. I think post-trade deadline things will be much easier on the young core as they won't be the subject of swirling trade talks at that point.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

Wonder if we'll trade any of the young players for additional space. I think it's a distinct possibility.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144432
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


Money was carved out last offseason for a reason and we are still struggling to be a factor in the playoffs.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


Yeah. Based on how the LBJ FA went down, if they sit tight at the trade deadline I have a better feeling about a good max FA coming.

Obviously if they trade and eat space, they heard through the wink-vine that it's not happening. I think post-trade deadline things will be much easier on the young core as they won't be the subject of swirling trade talks at that point.


Yep, I'm perfectly happy trading for Beal if the better players aren't coming.

It's not rocket science. If we stay with what we have... someone is coming ... if there is a trade... then you know through back channels that they aren't.

The idea that we'd acquire Beal in hopes of trading him later for a better player is short sighted and naive. If that were possible... why wouldn't Washington trade for AD himself? Because Beal and Wall wouldn't even get you AD. So if Beal and Wall don't get you AD... why would Beal and Ingram get you him unless Ingram makes a quantum leap? Beal is a good asset... he would be a good fit next to LBJ... but he should be behind the other guys I mentioned in priority.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


Money was carved out last offseason for a reason and we are still struggling to be a factor in the playoffs.


Well, we did get that LBJ guy and we are currently the 7th seed. So it has worked so far?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Math
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 1550

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
There is. He's likely playing on the Warriors/Raptors/Hornets/Bucks.


Yep, his nickname is 38 million dollar cap space... but too many dumb asses want to trade him for Beal, because he's "injured" and can't play this year.

Maybe someone needs to make a large cardboard cutout and sit him next to LBJ on the bench with the sign 38 million... #2 option

Because many here are too dense to grasp this in the abstract.


I'm not a fan of punting with LBJ in tow, but seems that LBJ/FO have agreed that it will play out this way.


If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


Money was carved out last offseason for a reason and we are still struggling to be a factor in the playoffs.


If only we could have used last year's money to sign a good player...
_________________
I'm a Balliever.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
greenfrog
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject:

I think the OP is really underselling Hart. He was clearly the second best player until whatever happened with his injury.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LKA
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject:

The fact that none of these guys can even shoot 80% from the line is very discouraging. Its actually pathetic.

Our two number two picks are at 35 and 33% from 3 and 57% and 64% from the line .. that is awful. We will never be a legitimate title contender with these guys as our starters.

Its one thing to be a physically dominant force and be a bad shooter.. like Shaq, Giannis, Simmons etc. but if you are not physically gifted like those players (which Ingram and Ball are not) I’m gonna go ahead and sell you on career role players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject:

Eh, is there anything in the OP that isn't being debated in other threads? Is this the Official Our Young Core Is Rotten Thread?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Villain6Activated
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

Another fact to face: None of our young core is emerging as number 2 this year, best case is one of them becomes number 3 next year. Outside of Wade/Kyrie, all of his teammates play a role player type of game and that leads to wild inconsistency unless you're a 3&D player. The entire offense runs through Lebron, and none of our young core outside of Hart are consistent shooters.

I thought Ingram could have been it if he got better on his off ball game like many predicted but dude is ball dominant and really can't bring together any consistency. I wish they would stop with forcing him to be the second option (or if it's really just him, which I doubt, then he should stop). Defense should be his number one focus, as the starting small forward next to Hart. The other guy that I thought could have been it was Lonzo, and he's still more impactful then people believe but dude also has his own scoring inconsistencies. Also don't think he's really allowed to play his game as a point guard, which would have been dope to see in his second year.

But at the same time, none of our guys are that good frankly. Without Lebron, they'd have better numbers but similar wins to last season because the West just got stronger.
_________________
“Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

I actually think Randle has emerged as a pretty solid #2 guy... Well, for the Pelicans at least.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
I actually think Randle has emerged as a pretty solid #2 guy... Well, for the Pelicans at least.


I thought about Jules this morning. And I think the reason we didn't keep him (and I wanted him here) was b/c of how we wanted to approach the center position. From what I've read, the FO wasn't exactly enthused by Brook's glacial pace and wanted a vertical gravity (i.e. dunker).

That decision all but made Jules's tenure done b/c he can't reliably space the floor enough.

Pels are not doing great despite having IMO one of the best frontcourts. They are overstocked there and their wing depth is suffering. It's no coincidence Jules is playing with bigs who can space the floor in AD/Mirotic.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144432
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

Every team has a second best player, even the Suns.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:

If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


It's most likely going to come down to Middleton or Kemba. Klay's comfortable where he's at and Kawhi (or his uncle at least) doesn't want to be Bron's sidekick. KD is a wildcard. It depends how much Mr. Sensitive wants to stick it to Draymond. If he's still butthurt this summer, he might come to us out of spite lol.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Every team has a second best player, even the Suns.


True, but I think the issue in our case is that no one knows who it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:

If we don't have a secret agreement with one of KD/Kawhi/Klay/Khris/Kemba

Then sure, we have to look at options like Beal.

But if we do... then everyone needs to relax.

I believe that money was carved out for a reason... it's annoying that people want to trade it for something worse.


It's most likely going to come down to Middleton or Kemba. Klay's comfortable where he's at and Kawhi (or his uncle at least) doesn't want to be Bron's sidekick. KD is a wildcard. It depends how much Mr. Sensitive wants to stick it to Draymond. If he's still butthurt this summer, he might come to us out of spite lol.

what can we do to flame the drama?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54519

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

KD is bringing his talents to LA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LKA
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
KD is bringing his talents to LA.


I sure as hell hope. I’d like to think him and Bron are good enough buddies to wanna team up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB