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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Wvc0925 wrote: | So past Nebula comes back to the future with the rest of the Avengers, but then how is past Thanos and his army able to time jump? Wouldn't he need more pym particles? |
I also like how Tony Stark makes his own version of the infinity gauntlet lickety split from earthly materials when Thanos' gauntlet took space dwarves using magic uru to harness the energy of the stones originally. _________________ Under New Management |
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Wvc0925 Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Nov 2017 Posts: 321
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Wvc0925 wrote: | So past Nebula comes back to the future with the rest of the Avengers, but then how is past Thanos and his army able to time jump? Wouldn't he need more pym particles? |
I also like how Tony Stark makes his own version of the infinity gauntlet lickety split from earthly materials when Thanos' gauntlet took space dwarves using magic uru to harness the energy of the stones originally. |
Haha ya. I really enjoyed the movie, but there's a couple of plot holes that I just can't overlook. |
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ani007 Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 507
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Wvc0925 wrote: | So past Nebula comes back to the future with the rest of the Avengers, but then how is past Thanos and his army able to time jump? Wouldn't he need more pym particles? |
I also like how Tony Stark makes his own version of the infinity gauntlet lickety split from earthly materials when Thanos' gauntlet took space dwarves using magic uru to harness the energy of the stones originally. |
maybe its vibranium chief export of wakanda :p |
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Jordan-esque Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 10262
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
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loslakersss Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 11853 Location: LA
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | I keep hearing people talk about this movie and express their excitement and I'm happy for all those fans. But as much as I would like to pump myself up to see this, after the ending of the last Avengers, I just can't do it. The last 15 minutes of that movie was such manipulative BS that it killed the series for me. I don't think I could muster the desire to see this next of if it were three minutes, much less at 3 hours.
I sincerely hope everyone else enjoys it, but I just can't do it. And it pains me to say that. |
Manipulative because it forces you to watch the next movie by being a cliffhanger?
All franchises do that to some extent. Most of the Star Wars movies and even most superhero movies do that. The comic book they adapted wouldn’t have worked well in one movie so they split it. Would you have felt differently if they kept the names Infinity War part 1 and part 2? |
I'm all for a good cliffhanger. GOT had an amazing one to end Season 7.
The end of Infinity War was less a cliffhanger than it was a cheesy gimmick for shock value's sake. A cliffhanger leaves you wondering what's going to happen next and excited to find out. Supposedly killing off almost every character when you know they can't all be dead was just silly and insulting to the intelligence. Took me right out of the whole thing. |
I can see that. It can definitely seem gimmicky to kill half of the characters and try to get the audience to buy that this really has any stakes.
As a fan of these movies perhaps I'm willing to be more lenient with criticism towards them although a lot of them have their flaws. In defense of Infinity War I would say that the writers had a story to wrap up and planned to do it through 2 movies. They needed to end the first movie somewhere and it is logical to end it on a loss for the heroes. The way the movies were split it allowed the villain to be the protagonist and accomplish his mission in the first film and then giving most of the screen time to the heroes in the second film. IW was able to be a self contained "Thanos movie" while also serving as a first act for the Avengers team with acts 2 and 3 being covered in Endgame.
IMO Marvel wasn't trying to get viewers to buy-in to the heroes deaths actually sticking when the snap happened but rather setting up "how the hell are they gonna fix this?". While it was covered in the comic, you don't have to read it to know that the heroes were coming back. I don't think that was ever the intention - to trick the viewer. But that that's just my take. For a comic book movie I thought they were both great, but that's all they are - comic book movies. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
Why did you think so? _________________ Under New Management |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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loslakersss wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: | I keep hearing people talk about this movie and express their excitement and I'm happy for all those fans. But as much as I would like to pump myself up to see this, after the ending of the last Avengers, I just can't do it. The last 15 minutes of that movie was such manipulative BS that it killed the series for me. I don't think I could muster the desire to see this next of if it were three minutes, much less at 3 hours.
I sincerely hope everyone else enjoys it, but I just can't do it. And it pains me to say that. |
Manipulative because it forces you to watch the next movie by being a cliffhanger?
All franchises do that to some extent. Most of the Star Wars movies and even most superhero movies do that. The comic book they adapted wouldn’t have worked well in one movie so they split it. Would you have felt differently if they kept the names Infinity War part 1 and part 2? |
I'm all for a good cliffhanger. GOT had an amazing one to end Season 7.
The end of Infinity War was less a cliffhanger than it was a cheesy gimmick for shock value's sake. A cliffhanger leaves you wondering what's going to happen next and excited to find out. Supposedly killing off almost every character when you know they can't all be dead was just silly and insulting to the intelligence. Took me right out of the whole thing. |
I can see that. It can definitely seem gimmicky to kill half of the characters and try to get the audience to buy that this really has any stakes.
As a fan of these movies perhaps I'm willing to be more lenient with criticism towards them although a lot of them have their flaws. In defense of Infinity War I would say that the writers had a story to wrap up and planned to do it through 2 movies. They needed to end the first movie somewhere and it is logical to end it on a loss for the heroes. The way the movies were split it allowed the villain to be the protagonist and accomplish his mission in the first film and then giving most of the screen time to the heroes in the second film. IW was able to be a self contained "Thanos movie" while also serving as a first act for the Avengers team with acts 2 and 3 being covered in Endgame.
IMO Marvel wasn't trying to get viewers to buy-in to the heroes deaths actually sticking when the snap happened but rather setting up "how the hell are they gonna fix this?". While it was covered in the comic, you don't have to read it to know that the heroes were coming back. I don't think that was ever the intention - to trick the viewer. But that that's just my take. For a comic book movie I thought they were both great, but that's all they are - comic book movies. |
What it set up in Endgame most interestingly - but it occurred almost too quickly in the middle of the climactic battle to have sufficient impact, imo - is what Thanos thinks of trauma and his final solution for it. The entire movie centers around trauma and survivors guilt in the wreckage of Thanos' abuse and mass murder spree in Infinity War, and so in that way I appreciated how Endgame's first 1/2-2/3rds foregrounded that pain and how the Avengers work through it in their own ways.
But I thought the fan service-y moments of closure facilitated via time travel - moments that likely made for "better cinema" to the Russo brothers - were somewhat facile in literalizing the main characters' engagement with their pasts and actually undercut said characters' growth. Thanos offers a final solution that needed more time to breathe, imo, because Stark's choice is not just about being selfless in completion of his MCU series character arc, it's about choosing life even with the mass of pain, guilt, anger, regret, etc. that comes with and even augments the good stuff of being human. I think time travel becomes a lazy heuristic in Endgame not because it undoes the deaths of Infinity War, but because it literalizes the metaphor of processing trauma in trite ways: Nebula offs her past, Thor and Tony deal with their parental issues, Cap undoes his one regret, etc.
Of course, the appeal is that we never get such easy closure in real life, but we can project ourselves onto these ĂĽbermenschen who are made to experience pain like we do on screen and can overcome it through the fantastical. That's what fairy tales are for. Yet it seems like there's no dark truth in the MCU like there is in a modern fairy tale like The Shape of Water in which escape from a broken, hate-filled society is a bittersweet necessity. Because in the MCU there's nothing wrong with the world that doesn't come from them, the outsider, and/or can't be fixed with a little superhero elbow grease and ingenuity. Trauma fades away like tendrils of ash in the wind in the MCU. And then on to the next external threat and box office bonanza.
tl;dr: it's manipulative because IW and EG play in the sandbox of trauma without the creators wanting anyone to get dirty. It's telling that the Fast & Furious franchise deals with loss in a more real way albeit only after the loss of a real life. _________________ Under New Management
Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:43 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
Why did you think so? |
If you like superhero/Marvel movies, I just don't see what's not to like. As superhero movies go, this was an epic. The action, the adventure, the comedy, the heart of it all. Sure, there were some plot/detail holes. But I thought they pulled it off. Infinity War was Thanos' movie, and this was the heroes' film. I thought the climactic final battle was exceptionally done. The audience in the theatre just kept applauding and applauding.
It's going to shatter movie records at the box office. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
Why did you think so? |
If you like superhero/Marvel movies, I just don't see what's not to like. As superhero movies go, this was an epic. The action, the adventure, the comedy, the heart of it all. Sure, there were some plot/detail holes. But I thought they pulled it off. Infinity War was Thanos' movie, and this was the heroes' film. I thought the climactic final battle was exceptionally done. The audience in the theatre just kept applauding and applauding.
It's going to shatter movie records at the box office. |
Is The Godfather and/or The Godfather Pt. II a better movie(s) than Avengers: Endgame? _________________ Under New Management |
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Vishnu Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 16558
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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The emotional moments got to me but overall I did not like it nearly as much as many on social media do. Time travel is always an issue and I think they have a problem with the power of certain characters throughout the films. I thought this during the movie and saw a Ringer article on this after I got home. I don't understand how the main three Avengers didn't just immediately destroy a stone-less Thanos. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Is The Godfather and/or The Godfather Pt. II a better movie(s) than Avengers: Endgame? |
It's kinda like apples and oranges. Don't know if any superhero movie is better than Godfather. Not even Dark Knight. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Huey Lewis & The News Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 5234 Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
Why did you think so? |
If you like superhero/Marvel movies, I just don't see what's not to like. As superhero movies go, this was an epic. The action, the adventure, the comedy, the heart of it all. Sure, there were some plot/detail holes. But I thought they pulled it off. Infinity War was Thanos' movie, and this was the heroes' film. I thought the climactic final battle was exceptionally done. The audience in the theatre just kept applauding and applauding.
It's going to shatter movie records at the box office. |
Is The Godfather and/or The Godfather Pt. II a better movie(s) than Avengers: Endgame? |
lol _________________ "All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers."
http://forums.lakersground.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13018 |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Huey Lewis & The News wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Saw a 4AM showing of it today. Thought it was fantastic. |
Why did you think so? |
If you like superhero/Marvel movies, I just don't see what's not to like. As superhero movies go, this was an epic. The action, the adventure, the comedy, the heart of it all. Sure, there were some plot/detail holes. But I thought they pulled it off. Infinity War was Thanos' movie, and this was the heroes' film. I thought the climactic final battle was exceptionally done. The audience in the theatre just kept applauding and applauding.
It's going to shatter movie records at the box office. |
Is The Godfather and/or The Godfather Pt. II a better movie(s) than Avengers: Endgame? |
lol |
I'm seriously curious about how people compare 1970s blockbusters to 2010s blockbusters. _________________ Under New Management |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Additionally, imagine what they could've done visually with the money they had on hand and the no rules powers available in this movie:
Why was the quantum realm so wasted after being such a source of visual and narrative interest in the Ant-Man movies?
What would it look like to visualize "the snap" passing through the universe and not just Hawkeye's backyard? Can you see the camera swooping from solar system to solar system to record the impact of Thanos' Messiah complex on a universal scale? Maybe even have a scene with Captain Marvel watching her Kree refugee friends turn into ash in order to involve her more in the actual narrative.
What if you showed Thanos' army passing through the quantum realm? Wouldn't that have been more visually interesting than the "smear the q***r" game that went on?
Couldn't Thanos have done something or Hulk dobe something or Tony Stark done something cooler by snapping their fingers than eradicating/restoring life? What does Thanos harnessing the power of a black hole look like? What does the Hulk reversing entropy look like?
There's a perverse lack of imagination on the screen for a movie with such a robust budget and what should be unlimited constraints. _________________ Under New Management |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Additionally, imagine what they could've done visually with the money they had on hand and the no rules powers available in this movie:
Why was the quantum realm so wasted after being such a source of visual and narrative interest in the Ant-Man movies?
What would it look like to visualize "the snap" passing through the universe and not just Hawkeye's backyard? Can you see the camera swooping from solar system to solar system to record the impact of Thanos' Messiah complex on a universal scale? Maybe even have a scene with Captain Marvel watching her Kree refugee friends turn into ash in order to involve her more in the actual narrative.
What if you showed Thanos' army passing through the quantum realm? Wouldn't that have been more visually interesting than the "smear the q***r" game that went on?
Couldn't Thanos have done something or Hulk dobe something or Tony Stark done something cooler by snapping their fingers than eradicating/restoring life? What does Thanos harnessing the power of a black hole look like? What does the Hulk reversing entropy look like?
There's a perverse lack of imagination on the screen for a movie with such a robust budget and what should be unlimited constraints. |
Like, how do you make Ant-Man's quantum realm, Dr. Strange's reality beding powets, and GITG's colorful intergalactic playfulness so inert? You have to actively try to (bleep) up all the interesting visuals your predecessors have created for you. _________________ Under New Management |
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BadGuy Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 3616
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Vishnu wrote: | The emotional moments got to me but overall I did not like it nearly as much as many on social media do. Time travel is always an issue and I think they have a problem with the power of certain characters throughout the films. I thought this during the movie and saw a Ringer article on this after I got home. I don't understand how the main three Avengers didn't just immediately destroy a stone-less Thanos. |
This part confused me, as well, but we have to remember that the Avengers had been out of the game for a while (especially Thor ). Whereas Thanos is supposedly in his prime, and he did not need the stones to whoop Hulk and Thor's ass (before the new weapon) in the first part. Overall, I liked the movie a lot! |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
There's a perverse lack of imagination on the screen for a movie with such a robust budget and what should be unlimited constraints. |
SPOILERS BELOW
Their time travel principles are disconcerting.
It's tough to not go down that rabbit hole and think, wait. That doesn't make any sense.
All things considered. There has to be some credit given for finishing neatly tons of story lines that were years in the making. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, while I loved the movie, no, I wouldn't put it up with all-timers like the first two Godfather films or Shawshank or anything like that. I did like it more than any Star Wars film I've ever seen, though. I was also posed an interesting question: Endgame or LOTR: The Return Of The King? I had to think about it before answering LOTR, but the fact that I even had to think about it says something.
Maybe some of it is that I'm such a fan of so many of the actors central to the story in Endgame. But yes, I enjoyed it thoroughly, even more than Black Panther, which I loved. |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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I just re-watched Infinity War, so I'll be up to seeing the movie on Tuesday. I don't take these blockbuster movies all that seriously, if you enjoy watching super heroes fly, spaceships traveling "ludicrous speed" etc., it makes for enjoyable popcorn fare to watch with your teenagers and young adults.
If you watch Outlander on Starz, I think they make a very interesting use of time travel, going back into the past, knowing what will happen in "future" conflicts. Also the Expanse I think is an above average Sci-Fi show, if you want a little more realism than say Star Trek or Star Wars...
As long as the movie is not "Twilight bad" I'm sure it will be worth the $10 to go see. I've enjoyed how they have tried tying the movies together, doing reasonable character development, some humor, and not taking everything so seriously. I mean if a talking, gun-toting raccoon is a principal character, its not really a think-piece movie.
AMIRIGHT? _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Yea, it was very much lotr: return of the king for me. Objectively, lotr was better written, better acted and just better but I enjoyed endgame more simply because of the fan service pulling at the strings of my inner 13 year old comic book loving self. That final battle was amazing. I could have enjoyed another 30 min of that alone. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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YSong Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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The final battle scene with EVERYONE was epic! I had flashbacks of awesome comic book covers with all the heroes in full out battle.
The time travel stuff had definite holes for sure but hey you can’t be perfect. Definite bittersweet endings.
Wonder how MCU phase 2 will go now without the key central figures. Will X-Men be central? Spider-Man ? Silver surfer? Fantastic four? |
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panamaniac Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 11238 Location: PTY
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Decent enough movie completely salvaged by a very rewarding payoff. 6.8/10
My issue with these mega ensemble superhero flicks is the narrative; not enough time to flesh out key character points. Everything feels easy and rushed. To be honest, the best part was watching it in a packed theater and seeing other people's reaction to all the big payoff moments. Can't help but feed off from that; I appreciate that these stories and characters mean this much to so many folks. However, I found it difficult to latch on to any character angle, as there was so much going on simultaneously.
I enjoyed the first act the best, as it the most story-driven. There was a unique somberness (at least to marvel movies) which saw the characters at their most human (imo), as they scramble to mount one last hurrah.
Personally, my least favorite part of these movies is the inevitable gargantuan CGI action set piece, and this movie's no different. I appreciate the technical achievement, but this one was set to a dark and grim Zack Snyder-esque backdrop with nauseating action plastered all over. That said, I completely understand their place in these movies.
*SPOILERS INCOMING* My most enjoyable elements were the conclusion of Tony Stark's story arc. It was done beautifully. He was able to atone for his guilt-ridden loss of Parker and bring back the departed avengers, and later sacrifices himself for the rest of the team (and it felt genuine). I get the feeling Stark always saw himself doing this, and it's fitting. I also like how Thor's and Cap's story arcs were handled; each were able to find peace with their pasts. Particularly Thor, who'd endured so much loss in the previous two movies, but never showed much emotion for. The scenes with his mother were satisfying to his character imo. And that's pretty much my enjoyment of this movie; it's three main characters got a rightful sendoff, in my opinion. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
There's a perverse lack of imagination on the screen for a movie with such a robust budget and what should be unlimited constraints. |
SPOILERS BELOW
Their time travel principles are disconcerting.
It's tough to not go down that rabbit hole and think, wait. That doesn't make any sense.
All things considered. There has to be some credit given for finishing neatly tons of story lines that were years in the making. |
I give it that credit and it was a solid 3* (out of 5) movie for me. But I think the bar has been set so low for Endgame in other ways because the MCU machine pulls off the story logistics with hundreds of millions of dollars and an army of creators at their disposal.
Anyway, I've dominated the thread too much, mea culpa to all. _________________ Under New Management |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently it's going to rake in $1.2 billion worldwide in the first weekend. That will break the record by hundreds of millions of dollars. |
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