Should we start Hart or Ingram?
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Should we start Hart or Ingram?
Hart should start
71%
 71%  [ 86 ]
Ingram should start
28%
 28%  [ 35 ]
Total Votes : 121

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OCLakeShow
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
The poll says Hart by a landslide ..


To me it's not even close.

I realize it would be a blow to Ingram's ego, but he plays much better with LBJ off the floor and Hart gives the starting lineup more spacing.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Whoever Lebron wants


Napier.


He had a poor start to his career, but he's worked to become an NBA quality player.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject:

OCLakeShow wrote:
LKA wrote:
The poll says Hart by a landslide ..


To me it's not even close.

I realize it would be a blow to Ingram's ego, but he plays much better with LBJ off the floor and Hart gives the starting lineup more spacing.


Eff his ego. He hasn't accomplished anything in the league so far, so he's not in a position to demand anything. If he's the best player on the team, maybe. But he's far from being 2nd or 3rd best.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:34 am    Post subject:

Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject:

Start Hart. Kuz plays so well alongside Bron he's earned his starting spot. BI is a good 3, can't say the same at 2, or 1.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.


What's the record with Ingram and without? We were winning games before he went down....
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.


What's the record with Ingram and without? We were winning games before he went down....


I didn't mean to imply we are incapable of winning games with BI starting, that would be factually untrue and easily disproven.
The stats bear that we have a better chance of winning(we play better) with Hart playing alongside the other starters.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.


What's the record with Ingram and without? We were winning games before he went down....


I didn't mean to imply we are incapable of winning games with BI starting, that would be factually untrue and easily disproven.
The stats bear that we have a better chance of winning(we play better) with Hart playing alongside the other starters.


We are better with Hart starting but we aren’t better with Ingram not playing. I think this team could reach another level with Ingram leading the second unit.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

And the starting lineup has been better defensively with Hart in place of Ingram, at least in terms of Defensive Rating.


Humm I have not the same numbers...

Last 4 games (without BI) : DefRtg at 107.3
Before : 106.1

Maybe I missed something...

Edit : okay maybe you have the numbers for the starting unit, I only have the numbers for the entire team...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.


What's the record with Ingram and without? We were winning games before he went down....


I didn't mean to imply we are incapable of winning games with BI starting, that would be factually untrue and easily disproven.
The stats bear that we have a better chance of winning(we play better) with Hart playing alongside the other starters.


We are better with Hart starting but we aren’t better with Ingram not playing. I think this team could reach another level with Ingram leading the second unit.


Exactly. The starting lineup is kicking ass, the biggest issue is that you have guys like Svi, Lance & Beasley getting significant minutes because we only have 7 healthy rotation-level guys. If that's Ingram getting those minutes instead of those guys? Much better team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:

And the starting lineup has been better defensively with Hart in place of Ingram, at least in terms of Defensive Rating.


Humm I have not the same numbers...

Last 4 games (without BI) : DefRtg at 107.3
Before : 106.1

Maybe I missed something...

Edit : okay maybe you have the numbers for the starting unit, I only have the numbers for the entire team...


Yeah, here's a comparison of the starters.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:

And the starting lineup has been better defensively with Hart in place of Ingram, at least in terms of Defensive Rating.


Humm I have not the same numbers...

Last 4 games (without BI) : DefRtg at 107.3
Before : 106.1

Maybe I missed something...

Edit : okay maybe you have the numbers for the starting unit, I only have the numbers for the entire team...


Yeah, here's a comparison of the starters. 7.4 points per 100 possessions better with Hart in the starting lineup rather than Ingram.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lewis wrote:
Hart is a better fit, but i would give Ingram until the end of January to figure it our how to play next to LeBron. The potential of team with Ingram vs Hart is much much bigger. If things don't improve make this change at the all star break.


Remember we are trying to win games as well and its not like Ingram doesn't take the court with LeBron at all.
Hart in the 1st 5 and BI in the 2nd, I hope aids our slow starts and bolsters our 2nd unit.
The preference is for Brandon to figure it out with LeBron I agree, a priority is for us to get some W's but even more important is for him to get better, that's best achieved I believe, having him take control of the offense as much as possible when a better option is unavailable.


The up coming road trip will tell us a lot.


What's the record with Ingram and without? We were winning games before he went down....


I didn't mean to imply we are incapable of winning games with BI starting, that would be factually untrue and easily disproven.
The stats bear that we have a better chance of winning(we play better) with Hart playing alongside the other starters.


We are better with Hart starting but we aren’t better with Ingram not playing. I think this team could reach another level with Ingram leading the second unit.


Exactly. The starting lineup is kicking ass, the biggest issue is that you have guys like Svi, Lance & Beasley getting significant minutes because we only have 7 healthy rotation-level guys. If that's Ingram getting those minutes instead of those guys? Much better team.


He could be a combo of Manu and Iggy for us role wise. Wing initiator on offense and shut down 1v1 defender.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

I'm convinced starting Hart is the better thing to do if we think "right now". We are a better team, just because LeBron Ball works that way, always had.
But isn't the goal of this team to unload some pressure on LeBron, playing him more off the ball ?
We played LeBron ball almost all game long against the Heat, it worked because they are a poor team, but in the bigger picture, isn't it better to try playing Ingram and LeBron together and make it work, instead of hiding it with BI from the bench ?
Can BI and LeBron play together, that I don't know, but I still think we should at least try to make it work. The Bulls didn't hide Pippen from Jordan, they did what they could to maKe it work. Now I know, Ingram is no Pippen, but you get the idea....
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
I'm convinced starting Hart is the better thing to do if we think "right now". We are a better team, just because LeBron Ball works that way, always had.
But isn't the goal of this team to unload some pressure on LeBron, playing him more off the ball ?


Magic’s unrealistic goal.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
durden-tyler wrote:
I'm convinced starting Hart is the better thing to do if we think "right now". We are a better team, just because LeBron Ball works that way, always had.
But isn't the goal of this team to unload some pressure on LeBron, playing him more off the ball ?


Magic’s unrealistic goal.


But it'll be vital in playoff time.
If Lebron is tired at the end of games, he'll need some possessions off to catch his wind. That was the benefit of having Kyrie when he did.

For the start of the season, we're not seeing that and Lebron has burdened the load at the end of close games because:
1. The kids arent ready yet, although they've shown glimpses
2. Wins are important. And although teaching moments are valuable, getting the W especially at this time trumps it
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Hart. Or KCP. Or Ariza.



3 strikes and your out, BI should start!

KCP should be dealt for Ariza, whom would be a perfect 6th man. Hart along with Ariza would be great bench players that can still get 24+ minutes per game....
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
I'm convinced starting Hart is the better thing to do if we think "right now". We are a better team, just because LeBron Ball works that way, always had.
But isn't the goal of this team to unload some pressure on LeBron, playing him more off the ball ?
We played LeBron ball almost all game long against the Heat, it worked because they are a poor team, but in the bigger picture, isn't it better to try playing Ingram and LeBron together and make it work, instead of hiding it with BI from the bench ?
Can BI and LeBron play together, that I don't know, but I still think we should at least try to make it work. The Bulls didn't hide Pippen from Jordan, they did what they could to maKe it work. Now I know, Ingram is no Pippen, but you get the idea....

IMO the bolded is the best argument to have Ingram starting, but not in the way you are suggesting. LeBron ball is really (bleep) good, and to me it's pretty settled we are a better team with Hart in the starting lineup instead of Ingram. It doesn't matter if it's against Miami or a better team.

To me the better argument would be about easing the burden on LeBron by having us play LeBron ball less. LeBron relaxes more as Ingram takes up more of the playmaking duties. Of course, the flip side argument is that if Ingram starts then maybe we blow out fewer teams and LeBron plays more, offsetting any potential wear and tear from having LeBron do less.

BTW LeBron rests 13-14 mpg. That means that he and Ingram will have to play together. Ingram on the bench just means there's fewer minutes where that happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
epak wrote:
Hart. Or KCP. Or Ariza.



3 strikes and your out, BI should start!

KCP should be dealt for Ariza, whom would be a perfect 6th man. Hart along with Ariza would be great bench players that can still get 24+ minutes per game....


Kidding about ariza.
But even with the net ratings, you want BI starting ey?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:25 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
FreakofNature wrote:
epak wrote:
Hart. Or KCP. Or Ariza.



3 strikes and your out, BI should start!

KCP should be dealt for Ariza, whom would be a perfect 6th man. Hart along with Ariza would be great bench players that can still get 24+ minutes per game....


Kidding about ariza.
But even with the net ratings, you want BI starting ey?



It is difficult to go against the net ratings true to that. But.... I see something in BI that "potentially" can be something pretty special. I think you continue to give him some rope, especially considering his age. He has not been a disaster, we all would love to see him "fit" better, I would let the kid grow some, fit himself in better with the teams concept, learn on the spot, hart is a guy that I like a whole lot, and think he will grow more too, but BI has the chance to be something more in the end, I would give it a "chance", and make a desicion a bit later down the road, at least until all-star break perhaps?...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
epak wrote:
FreakofNature wrote:
epak wrote:
Hart. Or KCP. Or Ariza.



3 strikes and your out, BI should start!

KCP should be dealt for Ariza, whom would be a perfect 6th man. Hart along with Ariza would be great bench players that can still get 24+ minutes per game....


Kidding about ariza.
But even with the net ratings, you want BI starting ey?



It is difficult to go against the net ratings true to that. But.... I see something in BI that "potentially" can be something pretty special. I think you continue to give him some rope, especially considering his age. He has not been a disaster, we all would love to see him "fit" better, I would let the kid grow some, fit himself in better with the teams concept, learn on the spot, hart is a guy that I like a whole lot, and think he will grow more too, but BI has the chance to be something more in the end, I would give it a "chance", and make a desicion a bit later down the road, at least until all-star break perhaps?...



Perhaps.
That's the thing about BI. I believe Kuz and Hart are closer to a finished product than BI. More room for BI to grow due to age. Hopefully.
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:18 am    Post subject:

Why can’t we start Ingram and let Hart close the game?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

Beale
Hart
Bron
Kuz
Mcgee
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

I like the group we got right now. Luke needs to channel his inner Phil Jackson and convince BI to be the 6th man. He should be able to dominate 2nd units.
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