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Eindhoven
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Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yellow wrote: | | PartyMan wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | For what? They can flop and get all the freethrows they want but it wont matter cuz they’ll still brick the attempts |
I hate to laugh at this but it’s true. Hard for me to believe pros can be this bad at the line. Particularly LeBron and Lonzo. |
Remarkably, LeBron has a better FT% than Hart, Ball, Ingram, Rondo, McGee, and Svi. |
We have just one player with, at least, 1 FTA per game shooting over 80% and he's about to be traded.
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Danny Ainge has been credited with being the first NBA player to make flopping a real part of his game. He also had the gall to argue with the refs constantly when he didn’t receive the call.
Our own Vlade Divac brought the Euro version of flopping to the NBA in the 90’s. (Of course he perfected it once he moved to the Kings.) Of all the players known to flop in the NBA, somehow when Vlade did it it always made me laugh, maybe because it was often so blatant.
Officiating usually tightens up in the playoffs and flopping becomes less of a factor. The exception has to be when Wade paraded to the free throw line against the Mavericks in 2006, in what has to be one of the most blatant playoff flopping displays in history. In the series, Wade took 97 free throws! After Dallas went up 2-0 in the series, Wade average over 18 free throws per game. In game 5 alone he shot 25 free throws, the same as the entire Mavericks team.
Just like with Harden’s antics last night, it’s hard blame these guys for flopping. If the refs reward them for it they will just keep on doing it. Harden scores over 30% of his points from the charity stripe.
Im not against the occasional flop, but when taken to the extreme it cheapens the game and makes it less entertaining. |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23899
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Yellow wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | Lebron is good at flopping. Maybe he should start doing that again.
Interesting how the refs were really biased towards Lebron before he became a Laker, but now he's not getting those calls anymore. |
LeBron is averaging 7.6 free throw attempts per game. He has averaged more than 7.7 attempts per game since 2012. Per minute, he hasn't averaged more free throws than this since 2010 when he was in Cleveland. |
When it comes down to it, no one wants the refs to be fair. When LeBron wasn't here, it was a travesty that he was getting away with traveling and getting free throws for barreling into people. Now we complain he isn't getting even more free throws. Like you said, he's shooting more free throws per game than he has in years and he's not even playing as many minutes. The studio guys were livid that Kuzma didn't get a whistle when he stuck his legs out and flopped on that one three pointer but they thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Harden got free throws on similar plays. |
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Lakers#1Team
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36363
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Yellow wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | Lebron is good at flopping. Maybe he should start doing that again.
Interesting how the refs were really biased towards Lebron before he became a Laker, but now he's not getting those calls anymore. |
LeBron is averaging 7.6 free throw attempts per game. He has averaged more than 7.7 attempts per game since 2012. Per minute, he hasn't averaged more free throws than this since 2010 when he was in Cleveland. |
When it comes down to it, no one wants the refs to be fair. When LeBron wasn't here, it was a travesty that he was getting away with traveling and getting free throws for barreling into people. Now we complain he isn't getting even more free throws. Like you said, he's shooting more free throws per game than he has in years and he's not even playing as many minutes. The studio guys were livid that Kuzma didn't get a whistle when he stuck his legs out and flopped on that one three pointer but they thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Harden got free throws on similar plays. |
To be fair, it's the lack of consistency in calling it the same for both players/teams that is the frustrating aspect. Anyone can adjust to how the refs are calling a game but not if there are different rules for different players. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Lebron knows how to flop. It’s useless though since the Lakers can’t make free throws. And it’s been that way for 5 years now. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | Yellow wrote: | | PartyMan wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | For what? They can flop and get all the freethrows they want but it wont matter cuz they’ll still brick the attempts |
I hate to laugh at this but it’s true. Hard for me to believe pros can be this bad at the line. Particularly LeBron and Lonzo. |
Remarkably, LeBron has a better FT% than Hart, Ball, Ingram, Rondo, McGee, and Svi. |
We have just one player with, at least, 1 FTA per game shooting over 80% and he's about to be traded. |
our fanbase has literally hated on every single player with a good ft% in the last 5 years. |
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PartyMan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jan 2016
Posts: 963
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | Yellow wrote: | | PartyMan wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | For what? They can flop and get all the freethrows they want but it wont matter cuz they’ll still brick the attempts |
I hate to laugh at this but it’s true. Hard for me to believe pros can be this bad at the line. Particularly LeBron and Lonzo. |
Remarkably, LeBron has a better FT% than Hart, Ball, Ingram, Rondo, McGee, and Svi. |
We have just one player with, at least, 1 FTA per game shooting over 80% and he's about to be traded. |
our fanbase has literally hated on every single player with a good ft% in the last 5 years. |
I never understood the hate on JC. Will never be an all star but for mid 2nd rounder? Was really good. Scored relatively efficiently and could hit a ft at 80+. Best player on the planet and 2 #2 picks can’t hit a free throw. Those guys are better but where are the fundamentals?
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night... 
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| PartyMan wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | Yellow wrote: | | PartyMan wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | For what? They can flop and get all the freethrows they want but it wont matter cuz they’ll still brick the attempts |
I hate to laugh at this but it’s true. Hard for me to believe pros can be this bad at the line. Particularly LeBron and Lonzo. |
Remarkably, LeBron has a better FT% than Hart, Ball, Ingram, Rondo, McGee, and Svi. |
We have just one player with, at least, 1 FTA per game shooting over 80% and he's about to be traded. |
our fanbase has literally hated on every single player with a good ft% in the last 5 years. |
I never understood the hate on JC. Will never be an all star but for mid 2nd rounder? Was really good. Scored relatively efficiently and could hit a ft at 80+. Best player on the planet and 2 #2 picks can’t hit a free throw. Those guys are better but where are the fundamentals? |
yea, JC was a fine player. He was well hated here, black hole right?
People will yell at me for this...but for whatever reason, what Ive seen is that our fans are not very eager to get talented scorers who are not superstar famous (like curry, durant). I call it the anti-kobe effect. We are under the impression that the kobe style (hero style) is old and antiquated and we need better all around something or other. And we got them now, and all that has happened is we're bricking fts at important times and losing because of it, we are bricking desperation shots all over the place when we are down 10 with 5 minutes left (like yesterday). But we have *hope* that well figure it out and it will all come together.
We dont need hope, we need good shooters. we need exactly the thing none of you want. a "selfish" black hole shooter. not a sort of good shooter who also plays D. Hope will do nothing right now.. Even Magic is saying itll all come together in January? How so? Not without different players. So Now we will add KCP to the list of good shooters that we somehow cant manage to keep. BTW, even in the superstar status, we got the worst shooter of the bunch, LBJ. But we like that part, I'm sure. I would have rather had PG. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23899
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
Chris must come from the "if you can't beat em, join em' mindset. He always has the Lakers back unlike Jon Barry. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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They should make the Rockets and other teams who flop a lot have an asphalt court. Try flopping like that CP3/Harden and getting scraped up. 
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Lakers#1Team
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36363
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
I love how the first tweet response showed a perfect view of how Harden initiated the contact against the defender, ZO, and yet no response from them. Talk about turning a blind eye to the truth. |
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LakerDynasty6.0
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4656
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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does the sun rise in the east?
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Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
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Lonzo-Lite
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 5090
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
NBA Referees are a joke.
Picking and choosing to defend some of their bad calls on flopping, what a disgrace.
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Jordan-esque
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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It's a difficult situation. Though they're probably adhering to the rules, the refs are missing the intent of them. You aren't supposed to gain an advantage from illegal contact. In Houston's case the offensive player is generating contact that gives the defender an advantage (were it uncalled). Whistle. You shouldn't be able to gain an advantage hunting the foul instead of the basket.
There's definitely an art too it. You can get offensive fouls doing this stuff. But if your already talented, defenders are put in an unfair situation.
It's too difficult to ask Refs to guess at a player's intent. The only two real options are either shift from protect the shooter to protect the defender, or get with the program and start flopping. Given they've taken away virtually all the physicality at a defender's disposal, they probably shouldn't call defensive fouls any time the offensive player creates the contact when entering a defender's space (currently it's only an offensive foul if the defender is set). The league wants scoring so it probably won't ever happen. It's not a strategy that wins rings because the refs counter it in the playoffs. |
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SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
Chris must come from the "if you can't beat em, join em' mindset. He always has the Lakers back unlike Jon Barry. |
the entire Barry family turned on the Lakers ever since Shaq turned down Rick Barry's offer to teach Shaq shoot free throws underhanded. honestly i don't blame Shaq, he'd be the laughing stock for a long time had he chose to do that. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
NBA Referees are a joke.
Picking and choosing to defend some of their bad calls on flopping, what a disgrace. |
I think the first one was a foul.
The 2nd one, there's some question as to who initiated the contact. But no way a ref can make that judgement during live action IMO.
I think the main issue with reffing is the inconsistency. And unfortunately, you get different refs for different games. And they're all human to err. However, if a foul is a foul in one game, we as fans hope it's the same the next game for both teams. And a foul in the first being a foul in the 4th.
Unfortunately, I dont think we can ever get away from "perfect" reffing since the refs are human. And at this time, I dont want to eliminate the human element of reffing from the game. I may change my mind down the road though  |
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Bol
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know why Harden doesn't just do that move where he shoots a three as he falls backward and puts his feet forward so that the defender lands in what is then called "his space" every time. He'd average over 100 points a game since there's no way to avoid it. |
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BynumForThree
Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1254
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers#1Team wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
I love how the first tweet response showed a perfect view of how Harden initiated the contact against the defender, ZO, and yet no response from them. Talk about turning a blind eye to the truth. |
And then BBallBreakdown (the ones who provided that angle) respond that an overhead view shows that Lonzo threw his elbow into Harden's path. Harden is a master at using angles, that's an obvious foul.
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...
https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016
NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago
Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.
More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2 |
NBA Referees are a joke.
Picking and choosing to defend some of their bad calls on flopping, what a disgrace. |
Eh. They are responding specifically to Chris Webber. They weren't responding to every fan on the internet. I can understand why the refs get frustrated by analysts like Webber who really don't understand the rules. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | Harden is a master at using angles, that's an obvious foul. |
That's what people don't get. Harden does flop from time to time, but nowhere near as much as some fans want to believe. He has figured out how to trap other players into fouling him. In this sense, he reminds me of Arjen Robben from the world of soccer. Yes, he flops from time to time, but on the other hand, if you leave your foot sticking out, he will find a way to trip over it. And that is totally legal. |
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818fan
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 4702
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scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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How about when harden kicked it to the guy on the baseline and football blocked JaVale out of bounds leaving his man for the dunk? Towards the end @ the 1 min left mark.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3N5CRggEE |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BynumForThree wrote: | | Harden is a master at using angles, that's an obvious foul. |
That's what people don't get. Harden does flop from time to time, but nowhere near as much as some fans want to believe. He has figured out how to trap other players into fouling him. In this sense, he reminds me of Arjen Robben from the world of soccer. Yes, he flops from time to time, but on the other hand, if you leave your foot sticking out, he will find a way to trip over it. And that is totally legal. |
Just stop it, please. "Mastery" of using angles, you say? I hope, you, guys, remember a narrative "you can't even breath on MJ without drawing a whistle".
Here are some stats compiled by Reddit, kudos to Jonnybravo for digging them out.
| Quote: | Harden Career Retrospect
Career
Michael Jordan: 5,590 more field goals than free throws
LeBron James: 5,395 more field goals than free throws
Kobe Bryant: 4,035 more field goals than free throws
Kevin Durant: 2,219 more field goals than free throws
James Harden: 193 more free throws than field goals |
I don't have any other comments...
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Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time |
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