Should Lakers start FLOPPING? (Update: The Official NBA Refs twitter chimes in - pg. 2)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

Stephen A. Smith calls out NBA referees officiating Lakers/Rockets.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JH5KxXAq4T0
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
If Kobe got the calls harden is getting, he would have a shot at the all time scoring leader, and Shaq would shoot 30 FTs per game without hack a shaq

The way harden plays basketball is disgusting to watch,


Kobe lived at the free throw line when defenses got too close to him. When you see players like Durant doing the swing through or pump faking a defender and then jumping into them, it was easy to tell they learned it from Kobe.

The difference between Kobe and players like Harden and Lou is they look for the foul as a first option. Kobe looked for his shot as the first option and would look for cheap fouls when that was being taken away. He would also occasionally look for cheap fouls on other plays too just to keep the defense off him. If Kobe had looked for fouls as often as Harden does, he would have certainly had 30-40 free throws a game.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Stephen A. Smith calls out NBA referees officiating Lakers/Rockets.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JH5KxXAq4T0


He’s right. I think what it really comes down to is do you want an entire league trying to play to draw fouls like Harden does? Can you imagine where every team has their harden-like player who purposefully flails, throws their body into players, falls on every three point attempt, Etc? Well if this continues you won’t need to imagine it much longer. If it gives teams an advantage you can be sure others will start adopting it.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject:

Lakeshow323 wrote:
Most manufactured "superstar" I have ever seen. There's a reason he's trash in the playoffs, at least 50% of his offense is dependent on the refs. I avoid watching any rockets game, it's honestly that awful to watch.


If they aren't calling fouls for him in the playoffs, then that is evidence that the league actually doesn't like him or want to market him, no?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Most manufactured "superstar" I have ever seen. There's a reason he's trash in the playoffs, at least 50% of his offense is dependent on the refs. I avoid watching any rockets game, it's honestly that awful to watch.


If they aren't calling fouls for him in the playoffs, then that is evidence that the league actually doesn't like him or want to market him, no?


No. Manufacturing stars in the regular season drives ratings. Having the best teams win in the playoffs drives ratings.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Stephen A. Smith calls out NBA referees officiating Lakers/Rockets.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JH5KxXAq4T0


He’s right. I think what it really comes down to is do you want an entire league trying to play to draw fouls like Harden does? Can you imagine where every team has their harden-like player who purposefully flails, throws their body into players, falls on every three point attempt, Etc? Well if this continues you won’t need to imagine it much longer. If it gives teams an advantage you can be sure others will start adopting it.


I want to see every player on every team do it until the NBA gets it's head out of it's exit.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject:

@Halftime

Harden 8 FTs

Utah Jazz 7 FTs
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject:

CabinCreek44 wrote:
Simply put, the NBA is a business and relies heavily on TV exposure. Therefore, much like Hollywood, they need "stars", and they are very much in the business of helping to craft them.

This dates back to the 70s when CBS began heavily hyping "The Doctor" and "The Mountain Man", on into the 80s with "The Magic Man", "The Hick From French Lick", "The Round Mound of Rebound", etc. Then NBC shot it into deep space in the 90s with Jordan, who became "The Greatest Player of All Time", and absolutely ZERO debate was tolerated on that subject.

In today's game, look no further than James Harden's teammate, Chris Paul, who the league's TV partners hilariously dubbed "The Closer" some years back (it was also, not coincidentally, a nice tie-in to a TNT series of the time that had the same title). At the risk of seeming impolite, what, exactly, has Chris Paul ever "closed", besides his own team, in a playoff series? If the nickname had been bestowed upon one of the real superstar closers across the years that had closed people down in the NBA Finals, then the nickname would have been appropriate.

Once upon a time, the stars would simply avail themselves. But in today's non-stop hyper-competitive media world, the NBA has decided that they can't sit around and waste time waiting for things like that to happen.

Someone could probably write a book on something like this, but the bottom line is the NBA is of course not just a sport, it's a business, and a "sports and entertainment" business to boot. It's not enough to just have one or two transcendent players...today I would name them LeBron James and Steph Curry...no, the league feels it has to have as many as possible, even if they haven't quite yet earned that status. Of course all of this is just my opinion.

James Harden is an excellent offensive basketball player, he can take people off the dribble and he can shoot from distance. He's smart, tough and strong and can absorb contact and finish the play. The league can easily hype him with no problem at all, but for some reason the officials seem to feel under pressure to put this guy on the free throw line ad nauseum, even when he is clearly hurling himself into the defender and then falling over as if he's been shot.

If the zebras had been engaged in this sort of malpractice in the old days, a defender(s) would have casually wandered over to one of them and said something along the lines of "if you keep putting this guy on the line when he's the one creating all the contact and then throwing himself to the floor, I'm going to put something on him that will require medical attention", and the refs probably would have gotten the message. But of course you can't do that now.

It's all part of the TV show now. Harden is one of the league's chosen ones, and the players have to adjust as best they can. It's frustrating for the players and coaches, to say the least, but that's their problem. Everybody's being paid handsomely for their efforts. On with The Show...



I don't believe anyone in the NBA decided, "We need to make James Harden a star, so we're going to have the refs call games in a way that he gets a lot of free throws."

I think the real answer is that Harden is simply a great student of the game, and he's got a knack for positioning his body in a way that he gets fouled, or contact is perceived as fouls from the refs angles.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject:

What’s funny about that post is how it relates back to 70s sitcoms, like, as if that somehow validates the idea that Adam Silver loves James Harden.

It’s ridiculous, really. If anything, they are making Harden LESS of a star if they are collectively conspiring to send him to the line.

FTs don’t make for good highlights.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject:

Foul on Rubio
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Foul on Rubio


This is great. I hope the fans keep the pressure on when it comes to Harden and keep posting how ridiculous Harden is.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject:

LakersMD wrote:
Foul on Rubio


Crazy that he could blatantly take that many steps with three refs on the floor and a foul on top of it to pour salt in the wounds.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject:

That double step back

Harden is pathetic. And the refs are too
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
That double step back

Harden is pathetic. And the refs are too


I don't care whose doing it, including any of our guys, that double step back has got to be the most defense-unfriendly shot in the history of the NBA.

I get it, it's "legal" in terms of the rule books, though I use that term loosely.

Okay, take two giant steps back, no problem, defender just has to pretend like he can actually get there in time to defend the impossible.

Similar to Harden's drive and foul on Ball, so he can drive to the basket, but if the defender tries to get into (or in this case, out of) position of the offensive player driving to the basket, it's a blocking foul. To me, this is the NBA saying to the defender that they should just get the hell out of the way and let the offensive guy score at will. No point in trying to get in front of the player trying to score the basketball on an open drive, it's a blocking foul if he bumps you, despite the fact that the contact had no adverse effect on his actual shot. But Ball can get mauled by Wall on a drive and it's a legitimate block by Wall!

But no, according to other fan bases (that i've been debating endlessly for the last few days on realcavstalk), we have gotten special treatment from the refs for decades and have no room to talk. I don't know why I do it, maybe just trying to find middle ground. It is fun, I will admit. lol
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Harden 14 FT attempts

New Orleans 17 FT attempts

There was a point in the game where Harden had 10 FT attempts and NOH had only 9.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Harden 14 FT attempts

New Orleans 17 FT attempts

There was a point in the game where Harden had 10 FT attempts and NOH had only 9.



These baiting and flopping tactics are making the
sport look petty IMO....
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject:

Is there a foul hunting team in the east? Let them play the Rockets in the finals and have the NBA spinning for a change in the rules.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject:

Harden is absurd. With the numbers that he puts up, one would think he ought to have a better reputation. But his style of play is almost unanimously disliked.

Past three seasons:

30.3 / 6.6 / 9.7
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

I guess that the answer to the OP is no. Hart with a crappy flop attempt then gets booted from the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Simply put, the NBA is a business and relies heavily on TV exposure. Therefore, much like Hollywood, they need "stars", and they are very much in the business of helping to craft them.

This dates back to the 70s when CBS began heavily hyping "The Doctor" and "The Mountain Man", on into the 80s with "The Magic Man", "The Hick From French Lick", "The Round Mound of Rebound", etc. Then NBC shot it into deep space in the 90s with Jordan, who became "The Greatest Player of All Time", and absolutely ZERO debate was tolerated on that subject.

In today's game, look no further than James Harden's teammate, Chris Paul, who the league's TV partners hilariously dubbed "The Closer" some years back (it was also, not coincidentally, a nice tie-in to a TNT series of the time that had the same title). At the risk of seeming impolite, what, exactly, has Chris Paul ever "closed", besides his own team, in a playoff series? If the nickname had been bestowed upon one of the real superstar closers across the years that had closed people down in the NBA Finals, then the nickname would have been appropriate.

Once upon a time, the stars would simply avail themselves. But in today's non-stop hyper-competitive media world, the NBA has decided that they can't sit around and waste time waiting for things like that to happen.

Someone could probably write a book on something like this, but the bottom line is the NBA is of course not just a sport, it's a business, and a "sports and entertainment" business to boot. It's not enough to just have one or two transcendent players...today I would name them LeBron James and Steph Curry...no, the league feels it has to have as many as possible, even if they haven't quite yet earned that status. Of course all of this is just my opinion.

James Harden is an excellent offensive basketball player, he can take people off the dribble and he can shoot from distance. He's smart, tough and strong and can absorb contact and finish the play. The league can easily hype him with no problem at all, but for some reason the officials seem to feel under pressure to put this guy on the free throw line ad nauseum, even when he is clearly hurling himself into the defender and then falling over as if he's been shot.

If the zebras had been engaged in this sort of malpractice in the old days, a defender(s) would have casually wandered over to one of them and said something along the lines of "if you keep putting this guy on the line when he's the one creating all the contact and then throwing himself to the floor, I'm going to put something on him that will require medical attention", and the refs probably would have gotten the message. But of course you can't do that now.

It's all part of the TV show now. Harden is one of the league's chosen ones, and the players have to adjust as best they can. It's frustrating for the players and coaches, to say the least, but that's their problem. Everybody's being paid handsomely for their efforts. On with The Show...



I don't believe anyone in the NBA decided, "We need to make James Harden a star, so we're going to have the refs call games in a way that he gets a lot of free throws."

I think the real answer is that Harden is simply a great student of the game, and he's got a knack for positioning his body in a way that he gets fouled, or contact is perceived as fouls from the refs angles.
NONSENSE.

Why is it that anyone who watches these games can see him throwing his body into the defender but the refs can't? dont give me that " they have a different angle on the court" talk. because they also have to watch tape on themselves. this means they've been watching tape of themselves getting FOOLED(as you probably believe) into going for the harden throw his body into the other guy move time and time again. at some point a ref would matchup what he sees on video with what he thought he saw in real life and start noticing some cues on the real life court that can tell him if harden is creating the contact and flopping. if you can't figure that out by now. you're either a horrible ref that needs to be fired from the nba OR you were instructed to call games in this manner for specific players or for Star players.

if you think harden is smart by studying the nba and how to manipulate officials. then what is lou will? he must be a genius.

Because there is a difference between sweet Lou and james harden. even on camera lou williams knows how to Make the defender foul him. while james harden is trying to Fool the refs into believing he's being fouled. there's a difference there.. one guy is actually being fouled the other isnt.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Simply put, the NBA is a business and relies heavily on TV exposure. Therefore, much like Hollywood, they need "stars", and they are very much in the business of helping to craft them.

This dates back to the 70s when CBS began heavily hyping "The Doctor" and "The Mountain Man", on into the 80s with "The Magic Man", "The Hick From French Lick", "The Round Mound of Rebound", etc. Then NBC shot it into deep space in the 90s with Jordan, who became "The Greatest Player of All Time", and absolutely ZERO debate was tolerated on that subject.

In today's game, look no further than James Harden's teammate, Chris Paul, who the league's TV partners hilariously dubbed "The Closer" some years back (it was also, not coincidentally, a nice tie-in to a TNT series of the time that had the same title). At the risk of seeming impolite, what, exactly, has Chris Paul ever "closed", besides his own team, in a playoff series? If the nickname had been bestowed upon one of the real superstar closers across the years that had closed people down in the NBA Finals, then the nickname would have been appropriate.

Once upon a time, the stars would simply avail themselves. But in today's non-stop hyper-competitive media world, the NBA has decided that they can't sit around and waste time waiting for things like that to happen.

Someone could probably write a book on something like this, but the bottom line is the NBA is of course not just a sport, it's a business, and a "sports and entertainment" business to boot. It's not enough to just have one or two transcendent players...today I would name them LeBron James and Steph Curry...no, the league feels it has to have as many as possible, even if they haven't quite yet earned that status. Of course all of this is just my opinion.

James Harden is an excellent offensive basketball player, he can take people off the dribble and he can shoot from distance. He's smart, tough and strong and can absorb contact and finish the play. The league can easily hype him with no problem at all, but for some reason the officials seem to feel under pressure to put this guy on the free throw line ad nauseum, even when he is clearly hurling himself into the defender and then falling over as if he's been shot.

If the zebras had been engaged in this sort of malpractice in the old days, a defender(s) would have casually wandered over to one of them and said something along the lines of "if you keep putting this guy on the line when he's the one creating all the contact and then throwing himself to the floor, I'm going to put something on him that will require medical attention", and the refs probably would have gotten the message. But of course you can't do that now.

It's all part of the TV show now. Harden is one of the league's chosen ones, and the players have to adjust as best they can. It's frustrating for the players and coaches, to say the least, but that's their problem. Everybody's being paid handsomely for their efforts. On with The Show...



I don't believe anyone in the NBA decided, "We need to make James Harden a star, so we're going to have the refs call games in a way that he gets a lot of free throws."

I think the real answer is that Harden is simply a great student of the game, and he's got a knack for positioning his body in a way that he gets fouled, or contact is perceived as fouls from the refs angles.
NONSENSE.

Why is it that anyone who watches these games can see him throwing his body into the defender but the refs can't? dont give me that " they have a different angle on the court" talk. because they also have to watch tape on themselves. this means they've been watching tape of themselves getting FOOLED(as you probably believe) into going for the harden throw his body into the other guy move time and time again. at some point a ref would matchup what he sees on video with what he thought he saw in real life and start noticing some cues on the real life court that can tell him if harden is creating the contact and flopping. if you can't figure that out by now. you're either a horrible ref that needs to be fired from the nba OR you were instructed to call games in this manner for specific players or for Star players.

if you think harden is smart by studying the nba and how to manipulate officials. then what is lou will? he must be a genius.

Because there is a difference between sweet Lou and james harden. even on camera lou williams knows how to Make the defender foul him. while james harden is trying to Fool the refs into believing he's being fouled. there's a difference there.. one guy is actually being fouled the other isnt.


Well, we know it isn't because they are being instructed to make those calls in Harden's favor.

It would make no sense. No one pays money so they can see players on the FT line.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Harden right now with 27 FT attempts

Memphis Grizzlies with 28 FT attempts
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:48 am    Post subject:

Lebron has been flopping for years... So why bother asking?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:

If Vlade was still with the organization, I'm sure he could help the players with their flopping abilities...

Lord knows grunting and arm flailing rarely works...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
Sounds like the NBA disagrees with CW's assessment of the game last night...

https://twitter.com/OfficialNBARefs/status/1073647893427286016

NBA Referees
@OfficialNBARefs
1h1 hour ago

Why is it hard to educate fans about the rules? Here's what we're up against. From last night's game, @RealChrisWebber was incorrect here. This is a foul, as the defender makes illegal contact with his knee to the thigh of the offensive player, causing him to fall to the floor.

More
.@RealChrisWebber is incorrect here as well. This is a correctly called foul, as the defender makes contact with his shoulder as he is moving illegally into the offensive player's space. These are obvious fouls, and fans deserve accurate analysis. 2/2


NBA Referees are a joke.

Picking and choosing to defend some of their bad calls on flopping, what a disgrace.
i can't believe i'm going to say this. as i am one of the few people that originally called harden one of the nba's "manufactured superstars". early on in his flopping career.

These two calls are actually correct.

The problem is. #1 doesnt happen that often when the flop boys. #2 is the issue. #2 is usually the other way around. its what started the BI fight the first time we played them. harden usually rams his shoulder or forearm into the defender causing contact to push them out of his way for a basket or at worse for a Foul in his favor as he jerks his neck back like the other guy hit him first. This time Zo was ready for it and gave him the shoulder first. You can only tell on TV when it goes in slow motion and its up close. remember the refs are there. so they're up close. But these are 2 decent calls among how many HORRIBLe calls from that game? and others.

lol at finding the 2 calls that were correct out of the 50 that were not.
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