| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | Lonzo with the "not" a bust category.  |
Comparing Fultz/Lonzo, are they both busts?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | al242 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Re: Tatum, we like to say that our young core has to adapt to LBJ.
That is true. But Tatum has to adapt to Kyrie AND Hayward and is on a deeper team. I think the Celts depth is a bit too much as it's affecting guys like Rozier, Tatum and Brown. |
Neither of these players are in the stratosphere of LBJ, in fact Hayward has been horrible and it is questionable if he is even a starter in this league at this present time. |
What's their usage rate?
How many all stars do they have right now?
Same issues we'd see with our young core and 2 max FAs would be here. We just have one all star. |
The Celtics have one legit all star in Kyrie. They might have more make the team this year because the East is so bad. |
LBJ's usage rate is slightly higher than Kyrie's. |
Also, here's the formula for usage rate:
Usage Rate Formula=100*[(Team Minutes)/(5*(Player Minutes))]*[(Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Free Throw Attempts)+(Turnovers)/[(Team Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Team Free Throw Attempts)+Team Turnovers)]
It doesn't factor in assists and playmaking. It has nothing to do with how ball dominant a player is, it's about how often he shoots and turns the ball over |
If BI was on the Celts, would he be having higher statistical outputs or around Tatum's range? And vice versa? |
Put BI in Brad Stevens' system, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are better.
Put Tatum in Luke's, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are worse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Put BI in Brad Stevens' system, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are better.
Put Tatum in Luke's, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are worse. |
Hmm, that's food for thought that we'll never know.
So you think the Pels value BI higher than Tatum as a trade asset for AD?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | I brought this up in the BI thread, but I think it's a nice way to sort of categorize expectations for our young core.
BI
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Dubious.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Lonzo
1. Is he a bust? No.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Kuz
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Hart
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? No.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No. |
If you were doing this chart for Alex English or Tracy McGrady a third of their way through their second season, you'd check them both No as HOF players. Yet they're in it.
You'd definitely give Steve Nash a No as an MVP. But he has two of them.
There are a million actual all-stars who you would have checked no.
It's fair to say none of our guys are currently on track where you can reasonably predict they will eventually become all-stars or all-NBA players, but that could certainly happen at some point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | Put BI in Brad Stevens' system, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are better.
Put Tatum in Luke's, and I guarantee his advanced numbers are worse. |
Hmm, that's food for thought that we'll never know.
So you think the Pels value BI higher than Tatum as a trade asset for AD? |
No, because I think Tatum is rated much higher than Ingram, moreso than is accurate to the actual ability of both players. Hence, my take that Tatum is, quite literally, overrated. But the contract of being a soph vs a 3rd year definitely adds value. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No. |
Every single MVP has made the HOF, So it's hard to see how one could be an MVP level but not HOF level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Lonzo with the "not" a bust category. |
Comparing Fultz/Lonzo, are they both busts? |
It's too early to call either a bust.
I'd say Lonzo has been a disappointment because of his play; Fultz has been a disappointment because of injuries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I brought this up in the BI thread, but I think it's a nice way to sort of categorize expectations for our young core.
BI
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Dubious.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Lonzo
1. Is he a bust? No.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Kuz
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Hart
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? No.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No. |
If you were doing this chart for Alex English or Tracy McGrady a third of their way through their second season, you'd check them both No as HOF players. Yet they're in it.
You'd definitely give Steve Nash a No as an MVP. But he has two of them.
There are a million actual all-stars who you would have checked no.
It's fair to say none of our guys are currently on track where you can reasonably predict they will eventually become all-stars or all-NBA players, but that could certainly happen at some point. |
Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Lonzo with the "not" a bust category. |
Comparing Fultz/Lonzo, are they both busts? |
No.
Fultz health is question. So who knows.
With Lonzo, I would have thought absolutely not as opposed to "no."
But maybe our definitions of bust are different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I brought this up in the BI thread, but I think it's a nice way to sort of categorize expectations for our young core.
BI
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Dubious.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Lonzo
1. Is he a bust? No.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Kuz
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Hart
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? No.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No. |
If you were doing this chart for Alex English or Tracy McGrady a third of their way through their second season, you'd check them both No as HOF players. Yet they're in it.
You'd definitely give Steve Nash a No as an MVP. But he has two of them.
There are a million actual all-stars who you would have checked no.
It's fair to say none of our guys are currently on track where you can reasonably predict they will eventually become all-stars or all-NBA players, but that could certainly happen at some point. |
Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now. |
I don't disagree with that. I'm saying it's just as uncertain for most other young players on other teams as well, but optimistic views are taken for players on other teams whereas pessimistic views are taken for Lakers, and I think the nature of the Laker fanbase has a lot to do with that.
Celtics fans think Paul Pierce is a legend. Laker fans woulda booed him out of town because he ain't Kobe. Hell, we got people hating on 33 year old Lebron because he ain't 27 year old Lebron. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it saves a little time in talking about our young core b/c people seem to be in the bust or star binary evaluation. The truth is probably several degrees to the middle for most of our guys.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think it saves a little time in talking about our young core b/c people seem to be in the bust or star binary evaluation. The truth is probably several degrees to the middle for most of our guys. |
And by association, max'em or trade'em.
The reality is that most stars don't break out on their rookie contracts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | So using it for others:
Ben Simmons
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
|
I don't consider Tatum is an MVP caliber talent. Simmons is slightly better than Tatum and has more upside imo.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | So using it for others:
Ben Simmons
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
|
I don't consider Tatum is an MVP caliber talent. Simmons is slightly better than Tatum and has more upside imo. |
Yeah. Upon further thought I don't think so, but he showed some stretches as a 19 year old rookie that presaged some interesting star potential. He's hit a bit of a sophomore slump but I think he has some star potential as much as that hurts me to concede.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | So using it for others:
Ben Simmons
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
|
I don't consider Tatum is an MVP caliber talent. Simmons is slightly better than Tatum and has more upside imo. |
Yeah. Upon further thought I don't think so, but he showed some stretches as a 19 year old rookie that presaged some interesting star potential. He's hit a bit of a sophomore slump but I think he has some star potential as much as that hurts me to concede. |
Tatum is closer to BI than he is to Simmons. Simmons is in another league. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now. |
Having HOF/MVP as a goal/expectation/hope for one draft pick is unreasonable, let alone three or four.
Lonzo and Ball were overall #2 picks.
Guess what -- only about 10% of the overall #2 picks in the last 50 years made the Hall. So, on average, if you got the #2 pick 10 times in a row, you could expect one of the 10 to become a Hall of Famer.
Only 2 out of 50 of the #2 picks won an MVP award. So that happens once every 25 years.
The average #2 pick is much closer to Keith Van Horn than Kevin Durant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now. |
Having HOF/MVP as a goal/expectation/hope for one draft pick is unreasonable, let alone three or four.
Lonzo and Ball were overall #2 picks.
Guess what -- only about 10% of the overall #2 picks in the last 50 years made the Hall. So, on average, if you got the #2 pick 10 times in a row, you could expect one of the 10 to become a Hall of Famer.
Only 2 out of 50 of the #2 picks won an MVP award. So that happens once every 25 years.
The average #2 pick is much closer to Keith Van Horn than Kevin Durant. |
Indeed. KVH had a good career. What is with the #2 pick curse though???
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now. |
Having HOF/MVP as a goal/expectation/hope for one draft pick is unreasonable, let alone three or four.
Lonzo and Ball were overall #2 picks.
Guess what -- only about 10% of the overall #2 picks in the last 50 years made the Hall. So, on average, if you got the #2 pick 10 times in a row, you could expect one of the 10 to become a Hall of Famer.
Only 2 out of 50 of the #2 picks won an MVP award. So that happens once every 25 years.
The average #2 pick is much closer to Keith Van Horn than Kevin Durant. |
Indeed. KVH had a good career. What is with the #2 pick curse though??? |
There isn't a #2 pick curse. There is only unreasonable fan expectations about how #2 picks will turn out.
I recently saw a study about draft positions and it found that on average #1 picks outperformed #2 picks, who outperformed #3, who outperformed #4 all the way down the line. (I believe the criteria was total all-star selctions.) Overall, the drafting has actually been just about right in terms of who was drafted in which spot.
The problem is that fans have unreasonable expectations. They think every lottery pick should become an all-star. While in reality, only about 6 players in the 60 person draft class ever become all-stars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart) |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Good points. Just a checkpoint as of now. But I have a hard time seeing the trajectory for MVP/all-NBA/HOF with our young core right now. |
Having HOF/MVP as a goal/expectation/hope for one draft pick is unreasonable, let alone three or four.
Lonzo and Ball were overall #2 picks.
Guess what -- only about 10% of the overall #2 picks in the last 50 years made the Hall. So, on average, if you got the #2 pick 10 times in a row, you could expect one of the 10 to become a Hall of Famer.
Only 2 out of 50 of the #2 picks won an MVP award. So that happens once every 25 years.
The average #2 pick is much closer to Keith Van Horn than Kevin Durant. |
Indeed. KVH had a good career. What is with the #2 pick curse though??? |
There isn't a #2 pick curse. There is only unreasonable fan expectations about how #2 picks will turn out.
I recently saw a study about draft positions and it found that on average #1 picks outperformed #2 picks, who outperformed #3, who outperformed #4 all the way down the line. (I believe the criteria was total all-star selctions.) Overall, the drafting has actually been just about right in terms of who was drafted in which spot.
The problem is that fans have unreasonable expectations. They think every lottery pick should become an all-star. While in reality, only about 6 players in the 60 person draft class ever become all-stars. |
Right, the #2 pick is unreasonably burdened it seems with heavy expectations, with the #1 pick often bein a more consensus pick. There's a reason why teams will pay a heavy price to get a #1 pick.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | So using it for others:
Ben Simmons
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
|
I don't consider Tatum is an MVP caliber talent. Simmons is slightly better than Tatum and has more upside imo. |
Yeah. Upon further thought I don't think so, but he showed some stretches as a 19 year old rookie that presaged some interesting star potential. He's hit a bit of a sophomore slump but I think he has some star potential as much as that hurts me to concede. |
Tatum is closer to BI than he is to Simmons. Simmons is in another league. |
Primary ball handler vs primary finisher? Hard to compare. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Even so, 50% of the overall #1 picks never make a single all-star team. And a #1 pick who doesn't make an all-star team is a bust. So even if you have the top pick in the draft you have a good chance of striking out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Al13
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 2336
Location: Berlin, Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Projecting our young "overrated" core should be the headline, man we have nothing to get Anthony Davis here, its all about FA´s for us, they will laugh at us if we offer all of them for Davis. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Al13 wrote: | | Projecting our young "overrated" core should be the headline, man we have nothing to get Anthony Davis here, its all about FA´s for us, they will laugh at us if we offer all of them for Davis. |
Are they truly overrated if their own fans think they suck? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Luminous8
Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | Re: Tatum, we like to say that our young core has to adapt to LBJ.
That is true. But Tatum has to adapt to Kyrie AND Hayward and is on a deeper team. I think the Celts depth is a bit too much as it's affecting guys like Rozier, Tatum and Brown. |
He hasn’t had to adapt (bleep) to Hayward. Hayward has been having to adapt to everyone else. Tatum is playing the exact way he’s always played. That offense is catered to letting him be him, vs Brandon playing three years and ever getting a chance to settle into one role. He’s a good player, but I think his defense is overrated, he isn’t a playmaker and for all that scoring talent he has,... he isn’t exactly a killer in that area either as of now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | So using it for others:
Ben Simmons
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
Tatum
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Yes.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? Yes.
5. Is he an MVP level player? Yes.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.
|
I don't consider Tatum is an MVP caliber talent. Simmons is slightly better than Tatum and has more upside imo. |
I don't think he realizes how tough it is to win the MVP. Only 33 guys in NBA history have won the award. In contrast, there are 111 Hall of Famers who played in the NBA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
