Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Projecting Our Young Core (BI, Lonzo, Kuz, Hart)

deal wrote:
BI
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.

Lonzo
1. Is he a bust? No, and hopefully not.
2. Is he a starter level player? He could develop maybe-hopefully, but he is way to laid back and a terrible shooter...
3. Is he an all star level player? Nope.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.

Kuz
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? Maybe.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.

Hart
1. Is he a bust? Absolutely not.
2. Is he a starter level player? Yes.
3. Is he an all star level player? No.
4. Is he an all NBA level player? No.
5. Is he an MVP level player? No.
6. Is he a HOF level player? No.



Not many changes to the OP in my case. None of our kids are bust which is great, but where they land from there is a big question mark.[/quote]

I should have put a level in between bust/starter, as in role player/rotation player.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

A "bust" doesn't mean a player is mediocre, or a role player. A "bust" means a player had potential, usually a high draft pick, that he didn't live up to, and to a more intense extent than the average NBA player. I think of Danny Manning, or Danny Ferry as being prime examples of being busts. They were good enough players (like Ingram is now), but they never got over that hump of being high quality players.

Also, being a bust can be germane to one team. A player can be a bust for one team, but thrive on another. Still, an improved reputation won't absolve that player of his bust status.

According to this definition, Lonza Ball is well on his way to being a bust, and because of Magic's comments, Ingram is also heading that direction.
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Sina
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Ingram:
With his lengthy frame and ball handling skill, he could be a franchise player and better. He is competitive too. Highest ceiling IMO.

Ball:
He has elite level court vision and defense. He just needs to be more aggressive to be a great player.

Kuzma:
Very good off-ball scorer, not only shooter. Very unique player. Fits well with and benefits most from the trend. Not a traditional scorer who emphasized more on 1-on-1 skills. Out of imagination. Is a excellent finisher playing with Bron. Could be even more terrible if he could develop chemistry with Ingram and Ball. Kuzma and Ingram represent new era and old school style players IMO. Kuzma-Ingram-Ball could build new showtime era to LA.

Hart
A very good 3D player.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Ingram:
With his lengthy frame and ball handling skill, he could be a franchise player and better. He is competitive too. Highest ceiling IMO.


I don't think he's a franchise level player. I think his mindset should be more of Odom versatility rather than scoring. Take away his 7'3 wingspan and say he's 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan and you would see a lot of skill deficiencies.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Ingram:
With his lengthy frame and ball handling skill, he could be a franchise player and better. He is competitive too. Highest ceiling IMO.

Ball:
He has elite level court vision and defense. He just needs to be more aggressive to be a great player.

Kuzma:
Very good off-ball scorer, not only shooter. Very unique player. Fits well with and benefits most from the trend. Not a traditional scorer who emphasized more on 1-on-1 skills. Out of imagination. Is a excellent finisher playing with Bron. Could be even more terrible if he could develop chemistry with Ingram and Ball. Kuzma and Ingram represent new era and old school style players IMO. Kuzma-Ingram-Ball could build new showtime era to LA.

Hart
A very good 3D player.


I think Kuzma has the highest ceiling because he looks to improve his deficiencies and has shown improvement as an overall bball player from last season.

Ball not only needs to be aggressive but should be able to make shots. Whether that's 3s, mid range, floaters, layups, or even free throws. I have never seen a point guard as terrible as him in any of those areas.

Hart is a decent 3D. Wouldn't say very good because he just isn't consistent.


Last edited by Mamba Mentality on Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Ingram:
With his lengthy frame and ball handling skill, he could be a franchise player and better. He is competitive too. Highest ceiling IMO.


I don't think he's a franchise level player. I think his mindset should be more of Odom versatility rather than scoring. Take away his 7'3 wingspan and say he's 6'7 with a 6'10 wingspan and you would see a lot of skill deficiencies.


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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject:

I think BI would be an insanely good player if he adopted an Odom mentality and was a jack of all trades. I think trying to be a go-to scorer is stunting his true calling.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject:

^^ Same. I don't think he understands that he can make a SIGNIFICANT impact on the floor by being THAT type of player. Right now he's just forcing everything. And I mean EVERYTHING.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
^^ Same. I don't think he understands that he can make a SIGNIFICANT impact on the floor by being THAT type of player. Right now he's just forcing everything. And I mean EVERYTHING.


To be fair, with no LBJ/Kuz, the scoring load is absent. Lonzo isn't going to pick it up. Neither is Hart (KCP has sometimes).

When LBJ returns, would like for him to embrace a versatile role.

I'm pleased with his defense this year and I think that can be a calling card for him. I know, not sexy as being the next KD/Giannis but I think it's what works for BI.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
^^ Same. I don't think he understands that he can make a SIGNIFICANT impact on the floor by being THAT type of player. Right now he's just forcing everything. And I mean EVERYTHING.


To be fair, with no LBJ/Kuz, the scoring load is absent. Lonzo isn't going to pick it up. Neither is Hart (KCP has sometimes).

When LBJ returns, would like for him to embrace a versatile role.

I'm pleased with his defense this year and I think that can be a calling card for him. I know, not sexy as being the next KD/Giannis but I think it's what works for BI.


I get why he feels the need to try and take over and shoulder the offensive load. It's only natural. Walton should be putting him in positions where he and the team is thriving. That twin tower lineup yesterday just clogs the lane and doesn't allow BI to play to his strength which is driving.

This lineup spreads the floor, allowing the Lakers to play to their strength by running and give Ingram room to operate.

Lonzo
KCP
BI
Beasley
Mcgee
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Kumza is the only definite starter material at the moment.

Lonzo will probably get there in his career but he's got too many flaws to be a reliable starter at the moment.

Ingram probably becomes a career role player who plays decent defense and is like the 4th or 5th scoring option. Future is probably a 4th or 5th starter or coming off the bench.

Hart is definitely NOT starter material. Honestly if he continues to play like he has this year, he'll be out of the NBA after his rookie contract. He's a 3 and D player who can't play defense and does not shoot particularly well. There are a bunch of new Josh Hart's that come out of the draft every year, very replaceable. If he improves his shooting, he can be a decent career bench player.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject:

if Kuzma is starter material than BI is too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
if Kuzma is starter material than BI is too.


You’re talking potential right? Cause right now Kuzma is far better and I don’t think there’s even an argument for Ingram.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
MJST wrote:
if Kuzma is starter material than BI is too.


You’re talking potential right? Cause right now Kuzma is far better and I don’t think there’s even an argument for Ingram.


I've been as disappointed in BI's production this year as the next guy (in particular in him not developing a jump shot 3 years in)....BUT....

I think there is a MAJOR argument to make that he is NOW better than Kuzma.


I think collectively we overrate Kuzma (and Hart) and underrate BI (and Lonzo).


Maybe because of where they were all drafted.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/zUILN-IXMZQ
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject:

A stretch five would be a major boon if Ball/Kuz/Ingram/LBJ are going to share the court often. Here's hoping that Wagner turns out well.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?
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32
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?


He has flat lined on some stats same as last season. His defense has improved some or at least he is making more of an effort. Here are some improvements he has made so far this season.

MP
FG%
2P%
FTA
FT%
AST
PTS
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
MJST wrote:
if Kuzma is starter material than BI is too.


You’re talking potential right? Cause right now Kuzma is far better and I don’t think there’s even an argument for Ingram.


I've been as disappointed in BI's production this year as the next guy (in particular in him not developing a jump shot 3 years in)....BUT....

I think there is a MAJOR argument to make that he is NOW better than Kuzma.


I think collectively we overrate Kuzma (and Hart) and underrate BI (and Lonzo).


Maybe because of where they were all drafted.


I think the ability to fill a role is a skill and is valuable especially on a good team. Ingram would have more success being a focal point on a bad team but struggles to have success within a lesser role as he must on a good team. Kuz is much better in a role with good players around him. That’s why I think Kuz is far better. He can have great success within a role on a good team while Ingram hasn’t shown the ability to do so. I’m very encouraged by yesterday though, hopefully he continues to move in that direction when LeBron returns but as of now, Kuz is far better and more valuable if on a good team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?


He has flat lined on some stats same as last season. His defense has improved some or at least he is making more of an effort. Here are some improvements he has made so far this season.

MP
FG%
2P%
FTA
FT%
AST
PTS


His improvement in a lot of these categories are pretty minimal. Overall, I'd say his stats to date this year are in par with last year - no better, no worse.

So far, he seems like a guy who will have an occasional scoring explosion, but when you add everything up his overall performance is that of a pretty average NBA starter
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:08 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?


He has flat lined on some stats same as last season. His defense has improved some or at least he is making more of an effort. Here are some improvements he has made so far this season.

MP
FG%
2P%
FTA
FT%
AST
PTS


His improvement in a lot of these categories are pretty minimal. Overall, I'd say his stats to date this year are in par with last year - no better, no worse.

So far, he seems like a guy who will have an occasional scoring explosion, but when you add everything up his overall performance is that of a pretty average NBA starter


All things considered, for a 27th pick that's an excellent return on investment.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?


He has flat lined on some stats same as last season. His defense has improved some or at least he is making more of an effort. Here are some improvements he has made so far this season.

MP
FG%
2P%
FTA
FT%
AST
PTS


His improvement in a lot of these categories are pretty minimal. Overall, I'd say his stats to date this year are in par with last year - no better, no worse.

So far, he seems like a guy who will have an occasional scoring explosion, but when you add everything up his overall performance is that of a pretty average NBA starter


If Kuz's stats this year are on par with last year, I would consider that an improvement though. We added Lebron James who takes more shots than all but 8 players in the league whereas last year he was our #1 option on offense.

Don't disagree his baseline is that of an average NBA starter, but, he has a much higher ceiling on a given night than the average NBA starter.

Not going to argue that Kuz has taken his game to the next level or anything like that though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Sina wrote:
Kuzma has improved a lot this year. Other than his efforts, playing with Bron helps too. On the contrary, BI and Ball need to adjust to play with Bron thought. Have said that, i’m very impressed with Kuzma. He is playing at star level right now. Interested how good he could be.


What has he improved at?


He has flat lined on some stats same as last season. His defense has improved some or at least he is making more of an effort. Here are some improvements he has made so far this season.

MP
FG%
2P%
FTA
FT%
AST
PTS


His improvement in a lot of these categories are pretty minimal. Overall, I'd say his stats to date this year are in par with last year - no better, no worse.

So far, he seems like a guy who will have an occasional scoring explosion, but when you add everything up his overall performance is that of a pretty average NBA starter


All things considered, for a 27th pick that's an excellent return on investment.


He isn’t a 27th pick, he is a starting PF on a team hoping to someday compete for a title. I think that he and Hart are good examples of players drafted after 4 years of college ball, their growth in the league is less than that of one and done players.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject:

Kuzma's improved at passing and defense... but he's deteriorated offensively because he can't shoot the three.

If he can get back to last year's shooting from distance, then he becomes a borderline all star talent... however, if this is the true Kuzma, then he's super dependent on others for scoring, especially LBJ.

He's like a catch and shoot guy who can only score at the rim right now.

I wouldn't mistake a guy whose greatest talent is making runs to the rim with three of the best playmakers in the league... with someone who can create for himself.

But I'm still hoping that first season shooting wasn't a fluke.
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