Better supporting cast: 2018 Cavs or 2019 Lakers?

 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:13 am    Post subject: Better supporting cast: 2018 Cavs or 2019 Lakers?

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Yellow
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject:

Lakers. Take a moment to read this from realgm:

homecourtloss wrote:
% of a team’s playoffs VORP through completion of the NBA Finals

1. LeBron, 2018, 100% (that’s not a typo)
2. Kareem, 1974, 62.5%
3. LeBron, 2007, 60%
4. LeBron, 2014, 55.8%
5. Bird, 1984, 50.9%
6. Duncan, 2003, 49.3%
7. Drexler, 1990, 48.6%
8. Barkley, 1993, 46.8%
9. Kidd, 2002, 46.2%
10.LeBron, 2015, 45.8%
11. LeBron, 2012, 44.4%
12. Shaq, 2003, 44.4%
13. Hakeem, 1994, 44.4%
14. Magic, 1980, 43.9%
15. Jordan, 1991, 43.8%
16. Bird, 1987, 43.5%
17. Wade, 2006, 43.3%
18. LeBron, 2017, 43.1%
19. Magic, 1991, 42.9%
20. LeBron, 2016, 42.6%

Other famous “Carry” performances:

Iverson, 2001: 39.5%
Walton, 1977: 35.6%
Dirk, 2011: 17.4

2018: 100% (Nance, 13.5%, Love, NEGATIVE 2.7%, Hood, NEGATIVE 5.4%Clarkson, NEGATIVE 13.5%
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject:

It's hard to evaluate. People can come up with different ways to measure the individual players on the rosters and add up their collective talent. But in both cases neither of the teams were well assembled, and the players didn't mesh well. It's safe to say take lebron off either team and they tank.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject:

The core scored 70 to 80 points before Kuzma's injury. After they scored 44, 37, and 23.

KD, Draymond, and Klay played worse without Steph

KD and Klay looked even more lost without Steph and Draymond.

Why is it hard to grasp that the team would do okay without LBJ, but then go completely down the toilet without Kuzma?

Lonzo isn't a shoot first kind of guy... so essentially you have only Ingram trying to create a shot himself.

The thanks he gets is complete hate, not only from guys who always hate... but a lot of people who I've respected for their more sober analysis in the past.

The guy was doing iso because Hart has been in a slump and Lonzo's being Lonzo on offense.

Now, I'm not saying Ingram was good enough because he wasn't.

But he didn't and doesn't deserve all the hate some of you were dishing out.

Their two best scorers and arguably their best playmaker was out.

Look what happened to Memphis just because Conley was gone... and we lost LBJ, Kuzma, and Rondo... plus McGee for awhile too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject:

Pre-LBJ injury it seemed the 2019 Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:12 am    Post subject:

Kevin Love is still better than anyone on this team outside of LeBron.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Kevin Love is still better than anyone on this team outside of LeBron.


Bad on defense, shot 39% in the playoffs and put up 15 PPG.
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject:

Before this season started, I was convinced the Lakers had a much better supporting cast than the Cavs. Now, I'm not so sure. I think they're both garbage. Ingram in his third year was supposed to blossom into an all star caliber player but instead he has regressed to a bench caliber player. Lonzo is still Lonzo and that's a bad thing.

Threatt_Level wrote:
Kevin Love is still better than anyone on this team outside of LeBron.


I'll take McGOAT over Kevin Love.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject:

Hard to say. I think the 2018 Cavs might have been better, but, our current supporting cast has a higher ceiling?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Kevin Love is still better than anyone on this team outside of LeBron.


I agree with this (though he missed 23 games last year). Part of the problem in things like this, though, is people look an the individual players, rather than how the players fit together, which can be as or even more important. It's not fantasy basketball.

The Cavs last year were a mess. They has mismatched parts, and kept changing their team throughout the year. (They had 17 guys play 20 games or more for them). We're pretty mismatched too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject:

I see little value in effort making measure of comparative supporting cast value, at least to the extent of trying to distill their potency in isolation of the guy they were placed around and with so little time together.

The Lakers are in year one of the LeBron contract. This group is highly likely to be less capable as a newly formed unit than were the guys were remained in the 2018 Cavs. Last season's "core" players yielded 35 wins with Julius Randle and Brook Lopez. Compare that to the fourth season of the second LJ campaign ? Some better degree of inter-player chemistry had been developed and a related better coaching strategy derived at CLE compared to here. Here, it's year one for essentially more than half of the roster.

Don't get wrapped up in the details. Big picture time now. The Lakers went all in with LeBron last Summer to improve the club. It's fair to say they willing to buck the risks of the expensive aged leader strategy weighed against the league's experience in aged mobile players. It worked OK until LeBron went down. We'll just have to watch to see how well he bounces back this season, and to observe how long he can stay healthy and motivated for future seasons so as to propel the club's return to playoff relevance. The quality of side players here matter so little at this point compared to the rebuild strategy that we as fans just have to suck it up for now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject:

hard to tell with all the injuries
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Hard to say. The 2018 Cavs would have struggled through any absence of LeBron.

When the 2019 Lakers were healthy, they were winning most games but they did face a lot of injured opponents during that stretch. Now the other teams have been healthier and it flip flopped.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Yellow wrote:
Lakers. Take a moment to read this from realgm:

homecourtloss wrote:
% of a team’s playoffs VORP through completion of the NBA Finals

1. LeBron, 2018, 100% (that’s not a typo)
2. Kareem, 1974, 62.5%
3. LeBron, 2007, 60%
4. LeBron, 2014, 55.8%
5. Bird, 1984, 50.9%
6. Duncan, 2003, 49.3%
7. Drexler, 1990, 48.6%
8. Barkley, 1993, 46.8%
9. Kidd, 2002, 46.2%
10.LeBron, 2015, 45.8%
11. LeBron, 2012, 44.4%
12. Shaq, 2003, 44.4%
13. Hakeem, 1994, 44.4%
14. Magic, 1980, 43.9%
15. Jordan, 1991, 43.8%
16. Bird, 1987, 43.5%
17. Wade, 2006, 43.3%
18. LeBron, 2017, 43.1%
19. Magic, 1991, 42.9%
20. LeBron, 2016, 42.6%

Other famous “Carry” performances:

Iverson, 2001: 39.5%
Walton, 1977: 35.6%
Dirk, 2011: 17.4

2018: 100% (Nance, 13.5%, Love, NEGATIVE 2.7%, Hood, NEGATIVE 5.4%Clarkson, NEGATIVE 13.5%


Lol. That's nuts
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject:

Other than Isaiah Thomas being a cancer, the Cavs had a very good roster. They just didn’t fit the Lebron offense (stand in the corner & wait) so they panicked and traded everyone.

Rose - look how great he’s playing this year
Crowder - good 3&d guy
Wade - looked pretty damn good in the playoffs
Korver - should’ve been more involved in the offense

If I recall, espn was anointing them the deepest team Lebron ever had. They really just needed time to gel and a more team oriented offense.

I won’t even mention the deadline moves that espn talked about for 72 hours calling them “Cavs reloaded”.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Yellow wrote:
Lakers. Take a moment to read this from realgm:

homecourtloss wrote:
% of a team’s playoffs VORP through completion of the NBA Finals

1. LeBron, 2018, 100% (that’s not a typo)
2. Kareem, 1974, 62.5%
3. LeBron, 2007, 60%
4. LeBron, 2014, 55.8%
5. Bird, 1984, 50.9%
6. Duncan, 2003, 49.3%
7. Drexler, 1990, 48.6%
8. Barkley, 1993, 46.8%
9. Kidd, 2002, 46.2%
10.LeBron, 2015, 45.8%
11. LeBron, 2012, 44.4%
12. Shaq, 2003, 44.4%
13. Hakeem, 1994, 44.4%
14. Magic, 1980, 43.9%
15. Jordan, 1991, 43.8%
16. Bird, 1987, 43.5%
17. Wade, 2006, 43.3%
18. LeBron, 2017, 43.1%
19. Magic, 1991, 42.9%
20. LeBron, 2016, 42.6%

Other famous “Carry” performances:

Iverson, 2001: 39.5%
Walton, 1977: 35.6%
Dirk, 2011: 17.4

2018: 100% (Nance, 13.5%, Love, NEGATIVE 2.7%, Hood, NEGATIVE 5.4%Clarkson, NEGATIVE 13.5%



Yeah, Lebron was pretty much a one man show on that team last year. I didn't think they had a chance in hell of getting past the second round considering how bad their defense was. They were just super lucky that Kyrie and Hayward got hurt. It's not surprising that the Cavs imploded this year without him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:02 am    Post subject:

the 2018 cavs were better. he had Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, vets like JR Smith, Korver, Hill,
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:06 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
the 2018 cavs were better. he had Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, vets like JR Smith, Korver, Hill,


d'accord
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
the 2018 cavs were better. he had Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, vets like JR Smith, Korver, Hill,



And we have vets like Chandler, Rondo, and KCP.

Really, other than Love, I don't see that the guys on the Cavs were any better than the ones on this team.

It's telling to me that the second guy you mention is Tristan Thompson, who is a run-of-the-mill undersized center. If that's who you're touting about how good the Cavs were, it says a lot.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject:

about even I'd say

certainly this year's Lakers are better long-term in all likelihood and have higher potential as well
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
about even I'd say

certainly this year's Lakers are better long-term in all likelihood and have higher potential as well


I think it's year on year; in that case the Cav's
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