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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:13 am    Post subject: And Now For Something Completely Different:

In a certain region in Thailand they have a 4-string guitar called the Phin Guitar, which I have only recently discovered. Typically the music is all instrumental and many of the songs are long jams of 10 minutes plus.

It sort of has a Kraut-rock or Progressive-rock feel to it. So if this is something that might interest you, have a look at the link:

https://youtu.be/EhtvOza2PZg

Cheers
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Sometimes I just have to open my window to hear it. BTW it is pronounced pin not fin. For some reason Thai scholars insist on representing the P sound in English with a ph spelling.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
Sometimes I just have to open my window to hear it. BTW it is pronounced pin not fin. For some reason Thai scholars insist on representing the P sound in English with a ph spelling.


I'm guessing because technically the pronunciation involves both the "P" sound along with a slight emphasis on the exhalation, hence the "H".

Thanks for the link unleash.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

No the word is exactly like pin. Thai transliteration is just pedantic like that. All of the P sound consonants (there are 3 of them) are transliterated to a ph symbol. This creates some interesting issues when Thai people read English ph combinations they don't see it as a F sound unless they are advanced English speakers. and since a P sound on the end of a word or syllable is changed to a B sound in Thai language Ralph becomes Ralb. But in my area the Lao dialect changes the leading R to L so it's Lalb phoentically. Big fun.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
No the word is exactly like pin. Thai transliteration is just pedantic like that. All of the P sound consonants (there are 3 of them) are transliterated to a ph symbol. This creates some interesting issues when Thai people read English ph combinations they don't see it as a F sound unless they are advanced English speakers. and since a P sound on the end of a word or syllable is changed to a B sound in Thai language Ralph becomes Ralb. But in my area the Lao dialect changes the leading R to L so it's Lalb phoentically. Big fun.


My point is that there are subtitles in how the sound is made that don't necessarily translate to people of a different language and dialect. Yes, the "Ph" combination indicates an "fff" sound in the English language. But there are subtleties that exist outside of English pronunciation. It's not really as simple as the "PH" really just being a "puh" sound versus a "fff" sound. Linguistically there is a subtlety in how that sound can be made that don't translate to the English tongue or ear. Take for example "Phuket". The "ph" is not meant to indicate "Fuket" (rhymes with "*uckit") as you correctly say. It's meant to indicate that the "P" is meant to influnce the "u" sound that follows. - think "Poo-ket" versus "Puk-ett".
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
No the word is exactly like pin. Thai transliteration is just pedantic like that. All of the P sound consonants (there are 3 of them) are transliterated to a ph symbol. This creates some interesting issues when Thai people read English ph combinations they don't see it as a F sound unless they are advanced English speakers. and since a P sound on the end of a word or syllable is changed to a B sound in Thai language Ralph becomes Ralb. But in my area the Lao dialect changes the leading R to L so it's Lalb phoentically. Big fun.


My point is that there are subtitles in how the sound is made that don't necessarily translate to people of a different language and dialect. Yes, the "Ph" combination indicates an "fff" sound in the English language. But there are subtleties that exist outside of English pronunciation. It's not really as simple as the "PH" really just being a "puh" sound versus a "fff" sound. Linguistically there is a subtlety in how that sound can be made that don't translate to the English tongue or ear. Take for example "Phuket". The "ph" is not meant to indicate "Fuket" (rhymes with "*uckit") as you correctly say. It's meant to indicate that the "P" is meant to influnce the "u" sound that follows. - think "Poo-ket" versus "Puk-ett".


That is what Thai scholars will tell you but it is transliteration. The purpose of transliteration is to attempt to accurately represent to a foreign audience what the sound is not to confuse it. Pin sounds nothing like fin which an English speaker would expect. You prove my point with Phuket.many people mispronounce because of faulty transliteration. Sure it may not sound exactly like a P but it sounds like nothing like an F which it represents in English. The Thai academics are the ones that dictate this. Many Thais that have lived abroad see the difficulties of this and want to change it.

Another example is the the spelling of place and family names. For example the main airport in Thailand is written Suvarnabhumi however there is a symbol in Thai writing called a garan and when it appears over a letter the letter below it and all subsequent letters in the words are not spoken. So actually the airport is pronounced Suwanabum. (There is no V sound in Thai). Same thing with the spelling of the former PM Thaksin Shinawattra. His name is spoken as Taksin Shinawad with a hard D. But the spelling rules have thousands of people mispronouncing his name.

I'm not talking out my ass I can speak Thai. I can read ok. My writing... Well kind of childlike lol. Learning Thai is an adventure and a puzzle at times but pretty fun.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject:

By the way the u sound is not influenced by the consonant attached to it it there is a long U sound อู and a short one อุ that are not influenced by the letter they are connected with. (For clarity the symbol อ is used because a Thai vowel must be attached to a consonant อ is used in this case. (Although อ is more often used as a vowel). For clarity there is another symbol for the letter P that I forgot it's not used so much. So that's 4 .
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
No the word is exactly like pin. Thai transliteration is just pedantic like that. All of the P sound consonants (there are 3 of them) are transliterated to a ph symbol. This creates some interesting issues when Thai people read English ph combinations they don't see it as a F sound unless they are advanced English speakers. and since a P sound on the end of a word or syllable is changed to a B sound in Thai language Ralph becomes Ralb. But in my area the Lao dialect changes the leading R to L so it's Lalb phoentically. Big fun.


My point is that there are subtitles in how the sound is made that don't necessarily translate to people of a different language and dialect. Yes, the "Ph" combination indicates an "fff" sound in the English language. But there are subtleties that exist outside of English pronunciation. It's not really as simple as the "PH" really just being a "puh" sound versus a "fff" sound. Linguistically there is a subtlety in how that sound can be made that don't translate to the English tongue or ear. Take for example "Phuket". The "ph" is not meant to indicate "Fuket" (rhymes with "*uckit") as you correctly say. It's meant to indicate that the "P" is meant to influnce the "u" sound that follows. - think "Poo-ket" versus "Puk-ett".


That is what Thai scholars will tell you but it is transliteration. The purpose of transliteration is to attempt to accurately represent to a foreign audience what the sound is not to confuse it. Pin sounds nothing like fin which an English speaker would expect. You prove my point with Phuket.many people mispronounce because of faulty transliteration. Sure it may not sound exactly like a P but it sounds like nothing like an F which it represents in English. The Thai academics are the ones that dictate this. Many Thais that have lived abroad see the difficulties of this and want to change it.

Another example is the the spelling of place and family names. For example the main airport in Thailand is written Suvarnabhumi however there is a symbol in Thai writing called a garan and when it appears over a letter the letter below it and all subsequent letters in the words are not spoken. So actually the airport is pronounced Suwanabum. (There is no V sound in Thai). Same thing with the spelling of the former PM Thaksin Shinawattra. His name is spoken as Taksin Shinawad with a hard D. But the spelling rules have thousands of people mispronouncing his name.

I'm not talking out my ass I can speak Thai. I can read ok. My writing... Well kind of childlike lol. Learning Thai is an adventure and a puzzle at times but pretty fun.


Jack talk Thai very well...
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ExPatLkrFan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
No the word is exactly like pin. Thai transliteration is just pedantic like that. All of the P sound consonants (there are 3 of them) are transliterated to a ph symbol. This creates some interesting issues when Thai people read English ph combinations they don't see it as a F sound unless they are advanced English speakers. and since a P sound on the end of a word or syllable is changed to a B sound in Thai language Ralph becomes Ralb. But in my area the Lao dialect changes the leading R to L so it's Lalb phoentically. Big fun.


My point is that there are subtitles in how the sound is made that don't necessarily translate to people of a different language and dialect. Yes, the "Ph" combination indicates an "fff" sound in the English language. But there are subtleties that exist outside of English pronunciation. It's not really as simple as the "PH" really just being a "puh" sound versus a "fff" sound. Linguistically there is a subtlety in how that sound can be made that don't translate to the English tongue or ear. Take for example "Phuket". The "ph" is not meant to indicate "Fuket" (rhymes with "*uckit") as you correctly say. It's meant to indicate that the "P" is meant to influnce the "u" sound that follows. - think "Poo-ket" versus "Puk-ett".


That is what Thai scholars will tell you but it is transliteration. The purpose of transliteration is to attempt to accurately represent to a foreign audience what the sound is not to confuse it. Pin sounds nothing like fin which an English speaker would expect. You prove my point with Phuket.many people mispronounce because of faulty transliteration. Sure it may not sound exactly like a P but it sounds like nothing like an F which it represents in English. The Thai academics are the ones that dictate this. Many Thais that have lived abroad see the difficulties of this and want to change it.

Another example is the the spelling of place and family names. For example the main airport in Thailand is written Suvarnabhumi however there is a symbol in Thai writing called a garan and when it appears over a letter the letter below it and all subsequent letters in the words are not spoken. So actually the airport is pronounced Suwanabum. (There is no V sound in Thai). Same thing with the spelling of the former PM Thaksin Shinawattra. His name is spoken as Taksin Shinawad with a hard D. But the spelling rules have thousands of people mispronouncing his name.

I'm not talking out my ass I can speak Thai. I can read ok. My writing... Well kind of childlike lol. Learning Thai is an adventure and a puzzle at times but pretty fun.


Jack talk Thai very well...


Lol with the Meet the Parents reference you're in the circle of trust.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject:

Disappointed that this wasn’t a Month Python thread
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Disappointed that this wasn’t a Month Python thread


Spam, Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:08 pm    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Disappointed that this wasn’t a Month Python thread


Spam, Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...



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