Some Phil Jackson quotes on Odom and the Lakers in LA Times article
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: Some Phil Jackson quotes on Odom and the Lakers in LA Times article

On Bynum

Quote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09, but now is the time to come to the aid of an ailing frontcourt.

"I've been real careful with him, trying to really nurture him, and now it's time," Laker Coach Phil Jackson said. "We want him to more than just develop as a practice player and actually be productive on the court. The pressure's going to kind of accumulate on him the last third of the season, particularly if our injuries continue to plague us at that position."


Great to read that. Does that mean Mihm or Kwame are out of the equation ?



On aquiring the Veteran guard and Lamar Odom.
Quote:
The Lakers are hoping to add a veteran guard before Thursday's trade deadline, but Jackson's hope is that Odom firmly takes control of the facilitator role.

"If Lamar gets consistent with his game and finds a role out there, it relieves the pressure on having an experienced guard," Jackson said. "It can really relieve that pressure and then we have a unique situation where it's a matchup problem for teams. At this point we haven't proven that it's an advantage situation for us to have him there."



On us fans ......
Quote:
Fans have noticed the losses, and apparent lack of a home-court advantage, sighing collectively, and not always quietly, as the defeats have piled up.

"They have a reason to be impatient," Jackson said. "This team's not been consistent for too long any time in its history and when your rivals, the Clippers, are doing as well as they're doing, there's always the sideline glance over at the opponents in the same town."


http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers21feb21,1,2733260.story?coll=la-headlines-sports
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09



HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective! When do they expect Bynum to become a top center, after Kobe retires?!?!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09


HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective!

Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.

Not that I expect Bynum to become as good as Kobe - But I sincerely doubt they are depending on him to become the player that helps Kobe win rings. They may hope that he can get to that level in 2-3 years - but they are going to aquire other players for that.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09


HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective!

Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.

Not that I expect Bynum to become as good as Kobe - But I sincerely doubt they are depending on him to become the player that helps Kobe win rings. They may hope that he can get to that level in 2-3 years - but they are going to aquire other players for that.


Big Difference...

Shaq went to college...
Kobe didn't...

Wear and tear of those extra NBA years is going to be greatest on Kobe...as a guard, he relies on his athleticism...after 29, he's one major injury away from losing it for good...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Big Difference...

Shaq went to college...
Kobe didn't...

Wear and tear of those extra NBA years is going to be greatest on Kobe...as a guard, he relies on his athleticism...after 29, he's one major injury away from losing it for good...

Shaq isn't in good shape and his body broke down way before it should have.

Even in his prime years of 29,30 and 31 - Shaq was out of shape. The only season he was in good shape was that year 1 when he won MVP - I think he was 28.

But my point remains. Why should a draft pick be the reason the franchise player wins or competes for rings?

It's on management to aquire proven players. They need to surround Kobe with some better players. Especially at PF and PG.

Also recall, had Shaq got his way he would have retired ringless. It was the Lakers' patience and coddling of Kobe that allowed him to develop as a player and become a superstar that Eddie Jones and other All-Star Lakers couldn't be.

Not saying Bynum will be that - But He shouldn't be piled in with Kobe. One has nothing to do with the other.
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kobenbynum
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject:

Kobe is a shooter. His age won't matter.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
Quote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09



HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective! When do they expect Bynum to become a top center, after Kobe retires?!?!


Dude what are you trippin' on?

Draft day, the better half (and I mean better because their heads are
screwed on straight) of people on this board kept repeating, "Bynum is
17 years old, understand that he's going to take 3 or 4 years before he
becomes a starter in all likelihood."

The major media said the same.

2008-2009 would be his 4th year. He'd have 3 years experience. He'd
turn 21 years old during that preseason.

If you were expecting him to develop faster, you're just not paying attention.


This is why so many of us (myself included) are surprised when we hear
people say that they wouldn't package Bynum for KG.

KG + Kobe would be instant contention, no matter who else we had to give.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject:

It may just be the "homer" in me but "Drew" is not a 3year project. We've been shocked on several occassions by this kid. Drew has one of the greatest centers of all time as a tutor. I believe that he has both the tools and equally important he has the desire. He can't wait to be Kobe's man at arms and get involved. You can see it when he puts that game face on. I'm betting by next year he starts logging more minutes than anybody else in the post. Jax wants to bring him along slowly but, the kid may prove that may not be necessary. NO, he isn't ready for Dunc or KG but, the rest better look out.

I still believe the faith that Jackson puts in these guys is going to pay off. When they start moving out on that floor without thinking and instinct takes over the Lakers will be tough. I can feel it. It's just a small wait. Patience Laker fans, patience...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09


HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective!

Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.

Not that I expect Bynum to become as good as Kobe - But I sincerely doubt they are depending on him to become the player that helps Kobe win rings. They may hope that he can get to that level in 2-3 years - but they are going to aquire other players for that.



Oh no you didn’t! Please…please don’t compare drafting Kobe Bryant out of high school to Andrew Bynum! Kobe and Lebron were both very successful in high school and the nation already knew what they could do. Both these guys were dominating! Dominating!!! Kobe was not an "experiment"!!!

Furthermore, Kobe played over 70 games his rookie year and averaged around 8 points per game as a rookie. Kobe was averaging 20 points per game by his third season. That is not someone who is projected to become "consistently effective" by his FOURTH NBA season. Actually, Kobe was in his FOURTH season when he won his first NBA Championship with Shaq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Kobe was more than just effective, he was already on his way to being great.

Start comparing "Bynum being drafted" to "Kobe being drafted", once Bynum starts to accomplish half of what Kobe accomplished at Bynum’s age.

Do you really think the Lakers don't expect Bynum to help Kobe win rings?

Based on Phil's comments and the amount of playing time he's giving Bynum, perhaps you're right. However, I imagine if you asked Kobe, he would consider that a bust with the 10th pick.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject:

Not to be nit picky, but Shaq was no where near Kobe's age when Kobe was drafted. Shaq was 24 years old and only 4 NBA years completed. Kobe is 27 and well into his 10th NBA season. Big difference. Shaq was still very young, and very youthful. Kobe is still young, but I don't know that he's still youthful. He's definitely hitting the most productive years of his career right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject:

[quote="wolfpaclaker"]
Quote:

But my point remains. Why should a draft pick be the reason the franchise player wins or competes for rings?

It's on management to aquire proven players. They need to surround Kobe with some better players. Especially at PF and PG.

Also recall, had Shaq got his way he would have retired ringless. It was the Lakers' patience and coddling of Kobe that allowed him to develop as a player and become a superstar that Eddie Jones and other All-Star Lakers couldn't be.

Not saying Bynum will be that - But He shouldn't be piled in with Kobe. One has nothing to do with the other.


Ummm, why should a draft pick be the reason for winning rings????? Well, maybe because his name is Magic?? Or Bird??

Rookies can win rings, though no one should be held to that standard.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject:

Were Magic and Bird drafted 10th?

Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
Long-term Laker plans still don't call for Bynum to be consistently effective until, say, 2008-09


HOLY $#!&

Kobe will be 30 years old and in his 13th NBA season!!! What the $#@&!!! This is when the Lakers expect Bynum to become effective!

Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.

Not that I expect Bynum to become as good as Kobe - But I sincerely doubt they are depending on him to become the player that helps Kobe win rings. They may hope that he can get to that level in 2-3 years - but they are going to aquire other players for that.



Oh no you didn’t! Please…please don’t compare drafting Kobe Bryant out of high school to Andrew Bynum! Kobe and Lebron were both very successful in high school and the nation already knew what they could do. Both these guys were dominating! Dominating!!! Kobe was not an "experiment"!!!

Furthermore, Kobe played over 70 games his rookie year and averaged around 8 points per game as a rookie. Kobe was averaging 20 points per game by his third season. That is not someone who is projected to become "consistently effective" by his FOURTH NBA season. Actually, Kobe was in his FOURTH season when he won his first NBA Championship with Shaq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Kobe was more than just effective, he was already on his way to being great.

Start comparing "Bynum being drafted" to "Kobe being drafted", once Bynum starts to accomplish half of what Kobe accomplished at Bynum’s age.

Do you really think the Lakers don't expect Bynum to help Kobe win rings?

Based on Phil's comments and the amount of playing time he's giving Bynum, perhaps you're right. However, I imagine if you asked Kobe, he would consider that a bust with the 10th pick.

Bynum was at the McDonalds game - so he would be one of the best high school players in the nation.

However, I said it many times. I'm not saying Bynum will develop like Kobe, but to expect your 10th pick to be your main piece for a ring is silly.

What were the other options? Danny Granger? Sean May? Not exactly All-Star players there either.

The Lakers went with upside over a proven college player. And there's (bleep). When they drafted Cook and Walton - there were complaints about why they didn't draft on upside.

Some people just like to complain.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
It may just be the "homer" in me


It always is with you.

Quote:
I still believe the faith that Jackson puts in these guys is going to pay off. When they start moving out on that floor without thinking and instinct takes over the Lakers will be tough. I can feel it. It's just a small wait. Patience Laker fans, patience...


Quote:

Fans have noticed the losses, and apparent lack of a home-court advantage, sighing collectively, and not always quietly, as the defeats have piled up.

"They have a reason to be impatient," Jackson said. "This team's not been consistent for too long any time in its history and when your rivals, the Clippers, are doing as well as they're doing, there's always the sideline glance over at the opponents in the same town."


Phil gave us permission. Deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject:

The point is, your 10th pick can be a major piece... but how major and when?

A 10th pick who's a senior you might expect could be a starter for a
contender if they lucked out (drafted well, got a steal) and could thereby
be a "major piece" as a starter - but not a star in his first year.

A 10th pick who's 17 years old?

C'mon man.

I agree that he's ahead of schedule, and I agree he'll turn into at the
least a very good center.

But he's not Greg Oden. He's not as NBA-ready as Oden is, or LBJ was,
or he'd have been the #1 overall.

So they guy's gonna be a starter for us at the earliest in the
second-half of next year, but more likely somewhere in his third season.
(and I only even give that much credit because he's ahead of schedule
and seems to have a great work ethic).

Still that's when he's ready to start, not when he's in his prime.

Bynum's prime (at the absolute earliest) will come 5-6 years from now.

That would make him 22ish, still very early to start a prime (but Amare
is a good example of that at least being a possibility).

Kobe will be 32-33 years old when Bynum hits his prime, and again, that's
at the earliest.

So heck yes, it'd be worth it to move him for KG.

You'd be pairing two of the "Greatest 60 NBA Players of All Time" while
they're both still in their prime, and with the best coach in the league.

I love Bynum. There are a ton of "stars" out there I wouldn't move him
for. But an All-Star big still in his prime? You gotta make that move.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Phil gave us permission. Deal

Phil is probably hoping that the fan pressure forces Buss and mangement to take on a big contract or a risk such that he can get a core of players he feels he can win do something with in the playoffs.

Phil isn't here just to coach kids. He wants something proven to work with so he can make an impact in the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
However, I said it many times. I'm not saying Bynum will develop like Kobe, but to expect your 10th pick to be your main piece for a ring is silly.


Kobe was the 13th pick in the draft. It doesn't take the 1st pick and Magic to get a player who can instantly become a contributor towards a championship team. Nobody expects Bynum to be the main piece. However, if Bynum isn't going to be Kobe's #2 guy, the Lakers better find someone else and soon.

Kobe doesn't have four years to wait. Furthermore, players with Kobe's game don't come around that often and very few franchise have a chance to build a championship contender around a player like Kobe.

The Bulls never took their time building a contender around Jordan. The Bulls always drafted and traded to win whild Jordan was on that team. Nobody cares that the Bulls are still rebuilding. Ask Bulls fan if they would have rather taken their time building a team or if they would have rather won every year Jordan was with the team.

The Lakers will miss their opportunity if they are conservative with Kobe on this team. Players like Kobe rarely come around.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject:

If you read carefully, what Phil was saying was that although the long term plan for Bynum was 2008-09, he's going to start pushing him into productivity NOW. This will relieve some of the physical strain on Mihm and Kwame so they can be healthy throughout the remainder of the season (and into the playoffs). I think if you analyze that then you realize that Bynum is a lot farther along than they had predicted at the beginning of the season.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.


They could afford to experiment. The backcourt already had NVE, EJ, Fisher, and Byron Scott. Shaq, Elden, Kersey, Blount, Rooks and Horry up front. If Kobe didn't work they still had a good team (they won 56 games with Shaq out for 30 and with Kobe only logging about 15 per game).

Not that I even question the picking Bynum. I'm simply saying West had the luxury of being able to take a risk on Kobe and have it not work, or not work out in Shaq's prime. We're in a totally different situation now.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
The point is, your 10th pick can be a major piece... but how major and when?

A 10th pick who's a senior you might expect could be a starter for a
contender if they lucked out (drafted well, got a steal) and could thereby
be a "major piece" as a starter - but not a star in his first year.

A 10th pick who's 17 years old?

C'mon man.

I agree that he's ahead of schedule, and I agree he'll turn into at the
least a very good center.

But he's not Greg Oden. He's not as NBA-ready as Oden is, or LBJ was,
or he'd have been the #1 overall.

So they guy's gonna be a starter for us at the earliest in the
second-half of next year, but more likely somewhere in his third season.
(and I only even give that much credit because he's ahead of schedule
and seems to have a great work ethic).

Still that's when he's ready to start, not when he's in his prime.

Bynum's prime (at the absolute earliest) will come 5-6 years from now.

That would make him 22ish, still very early to start a prime (but Amare
is a good example of that at least being a possibility).

Kobe will be 32-33 years old when Bynum hits his prime, and again, that's
at the earliest.

So heck yes, it'd be worth it to move him for KG.

You'd be pairing two of the "Greatest 60 NBA Players of All Time" while
they're both still in their prime, and with the best coach in the league.

I love Bynum. There are a ton of "stars" out there I wouldn't move him
for. But an All-Star big still in his prime? You gotta make that move.


I have to say, soda, you make a compelling argument. We have to ask ourselves some very difficult questions. This isn't a Shaq and Kobe situation with the age. There are many more years and a much shorter window at stake. Are our odds better at getting more championships with Kobe is his prime, or waiting for Andrew to hit his?? We can't have both. If Kobe has proven anything this year dragging this team full of dimwitted stiffs to a .500 record when teams with more depth of talent are doing worse, it's that one player could make all the difference. The right player, and the Lakers with Kobe in his prime could be right back to where they were 4-5 years ago.

Like you said, there are many 'stars' out there for which I wouldn't even consider moving Andrew. But if KG was available, I would HAVE to do that move.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Kobe was the 13th pick in the draft. It doesn't take the 1st pick and Magic to get a player who can instantly become a contributor towards a championship team. Nobody expects Bynum to be the main piece. However, if Bynum isn't going to be Kobe's #2 guy, the Lakers better find someone else and soon.

Kobe doesn't have four years to wait. Furthermore, players with Kobe's game don't come around that often and very few franchise have a chance to build a championship contender around a player like Kobe

And Kobe wasn't a starter until his third season.

In his third season, Shaq said he wasn't here for an experiment and that basically they needed to trade Kobe for a veteran.

Again, The Lakers would have been stupid to trade a young Kobe and they would be stupid to trade Bynum now.

You don't trade your young talent just because the franchise player is getting older and needs help

You help the franchise player through other avenues. Free agency and trading of other assets (Mihm, Odom, Last years). I'm sure the Lakers are looking at that, especially with coach Phil Jackson getting on them behind the scenes to make moves.

Quote:
The Bulls never took their time building a contender around Jordan. The Bulls always drafted and traded to win whild Jordan was on that team. Nobody cares that the Bulls are still rebuilding. Ask Bulls fan if they would have rather taken their time building a team or if they would have rather won every year Jordan was with the team


Bulls took 4-5 years after Jordan proved himself in 87 that he was the best talent in the NBA. So it takes time.

The difference between the Bulls and the Lakers the 2nd time around is that the Bulls still had their 2nd best talent in Scottie Pippen. The Lakers traded Shaq - and were only left with Kobe and the Shaq trade return.

So naturally when you trade a Shaquille O'Neal, it takes time to get things back in place.

No longer are you a power team and you need to get much more depth and talent considering that Shaq's dominance in the paint was lost.

What we need basically is a team like Detroit's or SA's where there is a lot of talent and depth. That will take atleast 3 years to put together.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Some Phil Jackson quotes on Odom and the Lakers in LA Times article

[quote="wolfpaclaker"]

<snipped>

On aquiring the Veteran guard and Lamar Odom.
Quote:
The Lakers are hoping to add a veteran guard before Thursday's trade deadline, but Jackson's hope is that Odom firmly takes control of the facilitator role.

"If Lamar gets consistent with his game and finds a role out there, it relieves the pressure on having an experienced guard," Jackson said. "It can really relieve that pressure and then we have a unique situation where it's a matchup problem for teams. At this point we haven't proven that it's an advantage situation for us to have him there."


What? Lamar hasn't been consistent with his game. Shocking relevation.

Also, I thought that Jackson was perfectly happy with Lamar's production. Yet he acknowledges that, at this point, having Lamar as the team's facilitator hasn't proven to be an advantage for the squad. I'd be interested if the writer followed up by asking if Lamar's play has been "dis-advantageous" (if there's such a word) for the squad.

And this is probably just me, but...

I find it mildly interesting that Phil used the word "if" as opposed to "when." The use of the word "when" would denote some level of confidence in Odom. It's just interesting in light of Tex Winter's comments earlier in the season. Perhaps Phil: A) is finally seeing what Winter saw earlier this year; and/or, B) is beginning to get over his stubborness about keeping Odom in the facilitator role and might consider putting him in other positions to succeed?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.


They could afford to experiment. The backcourt already had NVE, EJ, Fisher, and Byron Scott. Shaq, Elden, Kersey, Blount, Rooks and Horry up front. If Kobe didn't work they still had a good team (they won 56 games with Shaq out for 30 and with Kobe only logging about 15 per game).

Not that I even question the picking Bynum. I'm simply saying West had the luxury of being able to take a risk on Kobe and have it not work, or not work out in Shaq's prime. We're in a totally different situation now.

RG, if you read my thoughts on trades you will see I am behind almost all of them.

It's not even that I want this one man show to continue. But I don't see why picking Bynum is a bad thing for Kobe or the Lakers.

The other options were Granger and May.

Since neither are all-stars or impact bigs, I will go with the raw rookie 17 year old that has upside to be an impact big. Even if it's 5 years from now.

I don't think Bynum should be held accountable for what the Lakers do around Kobe. That's on the Lakers to actually make the trades and take the risks of big contracts and what not.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Shaq was around Kobe's age when we drafted Kobe and he was an "experiment"

By saying stuff like that, you are basically saying a guy like Kobe should have never been drafted so they could maxamize Shaq's time. And in 1999, I remember the fatass saying that in one media post game outburt.


They could afford to experiment. The backcourt already had NVE, EJ, Fisher, and Byron Scott. Shaq, Elden, Kersey, Blount, Rooks and Horry up front. If Kobe didn't work they still had a good team (they won 56 games with Shaq out for 30 and with Kobe only logging about 15 per game).

Not that I even question the picking Bynum. I'm simply saying West had the luxury of being able to take a risk on Kobe and have it not work, or not work out in Shaq's prime. We're in a totally different situation now.


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject:

It's funny how insane the overreactions are on LG sometimes. When you draft a guy out of high school, there's nearly always the 3 or 4 year tag that goes along with it. I fail to see why anyone would have expected Bynum to be treated any differently.

Kobe's prime isn't being wasted. He's got a good 5-6 years of prime basketball left and maybe another 2-3 after that where he gets superstar treatment even if he isn't playing at the highest level anymore.
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