Kyrie Irving apologizes to Lebron; possible reunion this Summer?
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24Legend007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject:

LA is not Cleveland.
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drae
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:42 pm    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
Kyrie is apologizing to Bron for not understanding that being the leader can get ugly and it sometimes means hogging the spotlight (that’s what is going on w Kyrie and the younger Boston guys).

That’s where this story ends. Kyrie has complimented Lebron TONS of times and even said today that he’s the one who taught him how to win a championship. BUT...

It doesn’t change the fact that he does NOT like Lebron..never did like him..especially personally and he would never ever be a part of that circus ever again especially considering he wants to lead his own legacy.

We forget..Kyrie is severely big time..he’s got the mamba mentality and when he’s healthy he’s up there with the best. He’s never carrying Bron’s ball sac ever again.


Boston is barely better with Kyrie on the floor than when he's off. Some mamba they've got there ...

He's also (and has always been) a liability on defense
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject:

I don't think what the Lakers need is a PG who demands the ball so much. They need a distributor who will be the glue for the other teammates to gel and can play defense.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!! He should be put on that list with KL, KD, Kyrie... If KD or KL doesn't want to come, we should target Kyrie too. You guys notice all the desire-able max guys are K's?

Kawhi
Kevin
Kyrie
Klay

Perfect to join Kyle Kuzma.


can KCP join?


Kristaps?
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject:

TMG wrote:
2019 wrote:
Kyrie was always the guy I wanted taking Kobe's mantle... never going to happen now but that doesn't mean I'm not hoping for it


I hope he never does aswell. Kyrie isn't the guy you want to be the 1st option. You take Kyrie to this team and remove Lebron. Kyrie with this team wont sniff a chip nor PO's for that matter. Elite 2nd option on any team.


I think there is a poor thought out narrative surrounding Kyrie, and that is that he can't win.

People forget history really quickly.

How many people know Lebron James missed the playoffs his first two years?

How many people know Steph missed the playoffs his first three years? Now, if you based Steph's career off of his first three season, you'd be laughed off the GRID for predicting he could lead a team to a title, LET ALONE, lead a team to a 73 win season.

Lebron just so happened to show up in Cleveland as Kyrie was growing, so it looks like Kyrie was helpless to win without him - win it takes almost ALL players, no matter HOW GREAT, years to figure out how to win in the NBA.

Kareem missed the playoffs TWICE in his prime.

What I do know is, Kyrie Irving is one of the most skilled players EVER, and is extremely clutch.

What a lot of people do not know is, HEAD TO HEAD IN THE NBA FINAL, Kyrie has averaged more points, and shot better from the field and from three than Steph Curry.

What a lot of people do not know is, for the CAREER, Kyrie has a higher FG and three-point percentage than Steph Curry in the playoffs.

Make of that what you will, but you SURE as hell can't convince me that is a bad place to start in a franchise player.

Kyrie has proven to be able to go to another level when the games mean the most.

If you don't want THAT guy, cool.

Another franchise would GLADLY take him.

He's NOT a great leader, but neither was Kobe. Kobe had to learn, and so does Kyrie. However, give me a player with that much skill, that exciting, and that gutsy in the clutch every time.


Last edited by AQuestSupreme on Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject:

When Lebron comes back he’ll just tell Zo to go stand on the corner and wait for the ball. Imagine if Kyrie came here too? Zo might as well be waiting in the parking lot.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
When Lebron comes back he’ll just tell Zo to go stand on the corner and wait for the ball. Imagine if Kyrie came here too? Zo might as well be waiting in the parking lot.


I think sitting out these games will show LBJ that his young kids have other skills that can be used.
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
When Lebron comes back he’ll just tell Zo to go stand on the corner and wait for the ball. Imagine if Kyrie came here too? Zo might as well be waiting in the parking lot.


I think sitting out these games will show LBJ that his young kids have other skills that can be used.


Lebron is ball dominant. None of that matters. K. Love and Bosh could do more, but he never defferred beyond the second option. That takes the ball out of his hand too much, and he can't control (bleep) if he gives up the ball too much.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

AQuestSupreme wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
When Lebron comes back he’ll just tell Zo to go stand on the corner and wait for the ball. Imagine if Kyrie came here too? Zo might as well be waiting in the parking lot.


I think sitting out these games will show LBJ that his young kids have other skills that can be used.


Lebron is ball dominant. None of that matters. K. Love and Bosh could do more, but he never defferred beyond the second option. That takes the ball out of his hand too much, and he can't control (bleep) if he gives up the ball too much.


That's a prime LBJ.

This is an older LBJ who has suffered his longest injury, and will be declining (from a high peak).

I don't think he will be playing at the relentless usage/dominance that he did once we get a 2nd max FA to reduce the burden.

I think the kids have shown that they can do more than they were showing early on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

Post of the year!! Awesome observations. I never thought about it like that, but you are spot on. Kyrie made that championship happen in Cleveland. He stopped Steph on defense and absolutely mauled him on offense. Give me a guy who is absolutely fearless in the clutch, especially with the kind of skill Kyrie possesses, and I will go to war against anyone knowing "He gat this." The great ones win when it counts the most.

AQuestSupreme wrote:
TMG wrote:
2019 wrote:
Kyrie was always the guy I wanted taking Kobe's mantle... never going to happen now but that doesn't mean I'm not hoping for it


I hope he never does aswell. Kyrie isn't the guy you want to be the 1st option. You take Kyrie to this team and remove Lebron. Kyrie with this team wont sniff a chip nor PO's for that matter. Elite 2nd option on any team.


I think there is a poor thought out narrative surrounding Kyrie, and that is that he can't win.

People forget history really quickly.

How many people know Lebron James missed the playoffs his first two years?

How many people know Steph missed the playoffs his first three years? Now, if you based Steph's career off of his first three season, you'd be laughed off the GRID for predicting he could lead a team to a title, LET ALONE, lead a team to a 73 win season.

Lebron just so happened to show up in Cleveland as Kyrie was growing, so it looks like Kyrie was helpless to win without him - win it takes almost ALL players, no matter HOW GREAT, years to figure out how to win in the NBA.

Kareem missed the playoffs TWICE in his prime.

What I do know is, Kyrie Irving is one of the most skilled players EVER, and is extremely clutch.

What a lot of people do not know is, HEAD TO HEAD IN THE NBA FINAL, Kyrie has averaged more points, and shot better from the field and from three than Steph Curry.

What a lot of people do not know is, for the CAREER, Kyrie has a higher FG and three-point percentage than Steph Curry.

Make of that what you will, but you SURE as hell can't convince me that is a bad place to start in a franchise player.

Kyrie has proven to be able to go to another level when the games mean the most.

If you don't want THAT guy, cool.

Another franchise would GLADLY take him.

He's NOT a great leader, but neither was Kobe. Kobe had to learn, and so does Kyrie. However, give me a player with that much skill, that exciting, and that gutsy in the clutch every time.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject:

If you can tell me his knees won't explode then I can be convinced...
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject:

Kyrie wasn't the two way player that Kobe was but he's a more efficient offensive player.

If he was healthy he might top the list of free agents for me.
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject:

For vet min backing up Lonzo? Sure.
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drae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject:

I see a lot of people have forgotten who Kyrie actually is.

When the Boston Celtics pulled the trigger on the Kyrie Irving trade in August, one of the biggest qualms made about the deal was that Irving was no better of a defender than the matador-esque Isaiah Thomas.

Irving garnered a defensive rating of 112 in his final season with the Cleveland Cavaliers. This rating was just as poor as Thomas’, and we all know how heavily Thomas was chided for his defensive ineffectiveness.

Uncle Drew’s current defensive rating of 105 is merely a facade, bolstered by an impressive start to the season on that end of the floor. Irving earned an elite defensive rating of 97 in October before seeing the rating rise to an acceptable 104 in November. In December, however, his defense has been an issue.

In nine December games, Irving has been torched on defense to the tune of a 115 defensive rating. His breakdowns on this end of the floor have been catastrophic to a Celtics team that has found themselves struggling to pull out victories for the first time since the season’s first two games.

Irving’s 116.9 defensive rating over the last five games ranks 350th in the NBA during that span, and it’s no wonder why he has been saddled with such a disappointing mark. In a 124-118 win over the Nuggets last Wednesday, Harris and Murray traded buckets all night while being guarded by Irving.

Harris chopped up Irving to the tune of 36 points on 16 made field goals while Murray contributed a modest 27 points. Irving saved the day offensively with 33 points on 12-for-19 shooting from the field, but his defense was one of the reasons why the game was so close to begin with.

Two nights later at TD Garden, Rubio of the Jazz took Irving to school throughout a 12-point upset victory. Rubio, who averages just 12.1 points per game, exploded for 22 points on 10-for-15 shooting from the field. He got to his favorite spots on the floor with ease while driving for a plethora of easy lay-in’s at the rim, making it a mystery as to how he posts just a dozen points per night.


https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/12/20/kyrie-irvings-recent-defensive-struggles-hurting-celtics/

Prime Kobe was a lockdown defender. Prime Lebron was one of the best defenders in the league, and when he wants to is still pretty damn good on defense. KD can do a pretty good impression of a spider to creep out any offensive player and make them miss. AD is a great defender. Kyrie on the other hand, is a turnstile.

And with his bad knees and physical problems, I doubt he'll ever be anything more than a turnstile.

Boston is better offensively when Kyrie's on the park, but defensively they're better when he's not. And overall, the impact of Kyrie on the park imo isn't worth the max contract they'll have to pay to keep him.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Kyrie DRPM Ranking 8th
Murray DRPM 73rd
Kemba DRPM 75th
Lillard DRPM 78th

I'd happily take any of these guys... but I'm still confused.

Is RPM legit... or is it BS?
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drae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Kyrie DRPM Ranking 8th
Murray DRPM 73rd
Kemba DRPM 75th
Lillard DRPM 78th

I'd happily take any of these guys... but I'm still confused.

Is RPM legit... or is it BS?


All defensive ratings are suspect generally, and some people don't like them. That DRPM ranks Kyrie ahead of Lonzo on defense will probably give people a false impression.

Here's a nice statline though: In the 2017-18 season, Boston scored 108.7 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and 101.9 without him. That's offset with Boston giving up 103.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, and only 99.7 without him. That's due to Rozier, who's a better defensive PG than Kyrie is.

Anyway Boston did a lot of good things in the playoffs last year without Kyrie, and now Kyrie's back there hasn't been a visible improvement in play. If that's the sort of thing you want from a franchise player, making your franchise incrementally better, then go for it, I guess :S
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Kyrie DRPM Ranking 8th
Murray DRPM 73rd
Kemba DRPM 75th
Lillard DRPM 78th

I'd happily take any of these guys... but I'm still confused.

Is RPM legit... or is it BS?


All defensive ratings are suspect generally, and some people don't like them. That DRPM ranks Kyrie ahead of Lonzo on defense will probably give people a false impression.

Here's a nice statline though: In the 2017-18 season, Boston scored 108.7 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and 101.9 without him. That's offset with Boston giving up 103.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, and only 99.7 without him. That's due to Rozier, who's a better defensive PG than Kyrie is.

Anyway Boston did a lot of good things in the playoffs last year without Kyrie, and now Kyrie's back there hasn't been a visible improvement in play. If that's the sort of thing you want from a franchise player, making your franchise incrementally better, then go for it, I guess :S


Except in our case, a Kyrie, Kemba, Lillard player is exactly what we need.

If Lonzo can score like he did last night... I suppose that renders those three redundant... and money would be better spent on Vucevic or Boogie... while developing Zubac... but dynamic scoring and closing should be priority one until he starts providing that nightly.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Black20Ice wrote:
I don't think what the Lakers need is a PG who demands the ball so much. They need a distributor who will be the glue for the other teammates to gel and can play defense.


What? Have you watched Lonzo play? I think we have enough of what you're describing. We need a yang to Lonzo's ying. They would perfectly compliment each other.
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drae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Charles Barkley on TNT saying these young guys made it to the conference finals last year without Kyrie. They were 5 minutes away from the NBA finals. Now Kyrie says the reason we're losing is because of the young guys? Boy, I woulda whooped his ass!

https://streamable.com/nfj8a

Source: Reddit NBA
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Kyrie wasn't the two way player that Kobe was but he's a more efficient offensive player.

If he was healthy he might top the list of free agents for me.


Kyrie is a lot more engaged defensively than he's ever been. I think he's near the very top in the leagues in charges and recovered loose balls. Those are 'I give a damn' stats, and they're far higher than they've ever been.

Besides that, Kyrie has insanely quick hands. I've seen him being extremely disruptive when he's trying to be. Earlier this year, he was having a lot of 3+ steal games. He's regressed some, but he's still playing good defense.

He's no Gary Payton, but he has PROVEN he can be quite impactful on defense when engaged.

He even admitted he didn't try as hard on defense in previous years, because he was so worried about offense.


Last edited by AQuestSupreme on Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Charles Barkley on TNT saying these young guys made it to the conference finals last year without Kyrie. They were 5 minutes away from the NBA finals. Now Kyrie says the reason we're losing is because of the young guys? Boy, I woulda whooped his ass!

https://streamable.com/nfj8a

Source: Reddit NBA


Charles Barkley also told the story about how when the Suns made it to the Finals, the next season, his teammates had lost their edge, because even guys on the bench were walking around with shades on, like they were superstars.

The Celtics of 17-18 were extremely gritty. They were ROUTINELY giving up leads, and coming from behind.

Well, they've lost that, because dudes have gotten really Hollywood.

It's easy to pick at Kyrie, but it's a lot harder to actually sift through ish and see what's really going on.

Those kids want to be stars, and there is a lot of selfishness on that team, and a lot of sulking when they aren't getting the playing time they want.
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject:

This is some stats about charges and loose balls that I mentioned earlier. This Tweet is from the 8th of this month.

"With nine charges drawn this year (same # as Marcus Smart), Kyrie is tied for the 7th most in the NBA. Irving is also 3rd in the league in loose balls recovered (70)."

Dude is trying hard, but the narratives tend to prevail despite much evidence to the contrary.
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AQuestSupreme
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Kyrie DRPM Ranking 8th
Murray DRPM 73rd
Kemba DRPM 75th
Lillard DRPM 78th

I'd happily take any of these guys... but I'm still confused.

Is RPM legit... or is it BS?


All defensive ratings are suspect generally, and some people don't like them. That DRPM ranks Kyrie ahead of Lonzo on defense will probably give people a false impression.

Here's a nice statline though: In the 2017-18 season, Boston scored 108.7 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and 101.9 without him. That's offset with Boston giving up 103.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, and only 99.7 without him. That's due to Rozier, who's a better defensive PG than Kyrie is.

Anyway Boston did a lot of good things in the playoffs last year without Kyrie, and now Kyrie's back there hasn't been a visible improvement in play. If that's the sort of thing you want from a franchise player, making your franchise incrementally better, then go for it, I guess :S



This is a very narrow way of thinking, imo.

For example, the Chicago Bulls in 94-95 won 55 games, and almost made it to the ECF without Jordan.

There were players who posted better numbers than usual, and I'll bet the ball movement was much better.

One problem, though: You CAN go far without a superstar, but a superstar, while they do stop the ball a lot, are able to make plays when lesser guys are marginalized by high stakes games and significantly more physical and engaged defenses in the playoffs.

Kyrie has PROVEN he can get it done when it matters the most on the biggest stages.

In the FINALS, his numbers ALWAYS went up in terms of scoring and efficiency. The same can't be said for Steph and Klay Thompson, for instance.

People mistake better ball movement for ball more conducive to winning.

Kobe Bean Bryant is a historic chucker, but took his Lakers squad to THREE straight Finals, and won TWO.

Ball movement is good, but ULTIMATELY, you need guys who can make plays with the air get thick, and defenses aren't giving up anything.

Nobody on Boston has proven they can excel in that environment EXCEPT Kyrie.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject:

AQuestSupreme wrote:
This is some stats about charges and loose balls that I mentioned earlier. This Tweet is from the 8th of this month.

"With nine charges drawn this year (same # as Marcus Smart), Kyrie is tied for the 7th most in the NBA. Irving is also 3rd in the league in loose balls recovered (70)."

Dude is trying hard, but the narratives tend to prevail despite much evidence to the contrary.


Good to know... thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AQuestSupreme wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
When Lebron comes back he’ll just tell Zo to go stand on the corner and wait for the ball. Imagine if Kyrie came here too? Zo might as well be waiting in the parking lot.


I think sitting out these games will show LBJ that his young kids have other skills that can be used.


Lebron is ball dominant. None of that matters. K. Love and Bosh could do more, but he never defferred beyond the second option. That takes the ball out of his hand too much, and he can't control (bleep) if he gives up the ball too much.


That's a prime LBJ.

This is an older LBJ who has suffered his longest injury, and will be declining (from a high peak).

I don't think he will be playing at the relentless usage/dominance that he did once we get a 2nd max FA to reduce the burden.

I think the kids have shown that they can do more than they were showing early on.


A lot of people thought that before the season but it never happened. Sometimes a tiger can’t change his stripes (I’m looking at you too Kobe).
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