Did the Lakers Punt Too Soon on Julius Randle, D'Angelo Russell and Others?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Did the Lakers Punt Too Soon on Julius Randle, D'Angelo Russell and Others?

Hey All.

Latest @BleacherReport Did the Lakers Punt Too Soon on Julius Randle, D'Angelo Russell and Others? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817522-did-the-lakers-punt-too-soon-on-julius-randle-dangelo-russell-and-others

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject:

If they had to get rid of DLO or BI to clear cap they did well at the time in keeping BI. He was considered a better prospect. BI had no chronic knee issue or locker room issues. He is younger and may still have a high upside than DLO. DLO is a knee injury away from finishing his season on the DL again.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Simple answer: yes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Depends what the goal is. Win a championship or be mediocre for more years waiting for a young player to be good enough to elevate us to contender. I still think both Randle and Russell were not significant losses but we wont know for sure until Lebron is gone.

Randle wants to get paid and Russell will be in that boat very soon. Are they Wiggins contracts waiting to happen? Or are they good enough to warrant the money they are about to command?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Depends what the goal is. Win a championship or be mediocre for more years waiting for a young player to be good enough to elevate us to contender. I still think both Randle and Russell were not significant losses but we wont know for sure until Lebron is gone.

Randle wants to get paid and Russell will be in that boat very soon. Are they Wiggins contracts waiting to happen? Or are they good enough to warrant the money they are about to command?


D'Angelo Russell has already shown more than Andrew Wiggins ever has.

We've traded away our 2014 and 2015 picks largely as a consequence of trying to make-up for poor decision making (Mozgov and Deng) or because we were maneuvering for something greater (LeBron and the 2nd max FA).

But considering Russell's value was very low when we traded him, and that Randle could have probably been had for a 1 year contract if we treated him better, it makes you wonder if we're making the right decisions in terms of who we are keeping and who we are shipping off.

If the Lakers have a problem, it's not necessarily related to them moving around young assets for a better future, it's related to them not being patient enough to make these moves at the proper time. And to them not having the proper developmental personnel to properly gauge the value/performance of high potential (but not perfect) draft picks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Well we can't develop players and if we did then Luke would misuse them anyways
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject:

Here is a comparison of some past and present players using PER and RPM
Code:

PER     ORPM   DRPM    RPM
12.0   -0.68   +0.68   +0.00   Lonzo Ball
15.1   -0.74   +0.30   -0.44   Rajon Rondo
10.3   -0.77   +1.63   +0.86   Josh Hart
12.2   +1.19   -1.72   -0.53   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
12.8   -0.46   -1.03   -1.49   Lance Stephenson
26.3   +3.34   +1.51   +4.85   LeBron James
18.8   -1.72   +0.91   -0.81   Michael Beasley
11.8   -2.43   -0.32   -2.75   Brandon Ingram
15.0   +0.70   -0.82   -0.12   Kyle Kuzma
21.2   -0.63   +1.92   +1.29   Ivica Zubac
12.5   -2.27   +3.30   +1.03   Tyson Chandler
20.3   -3.35   +1.48   -1.87   JaVale McGee
17.2   +0.48   -3.94   -3.46   Jordan Clarkson
19.0   +0.07   +1.67   +1.74   Larry Nance Jr.
13.9   +0.58   +2.24   +2.82   Brook Lopez
21.6   +1.29   -1.32   -0.03   Julius Randle
19.0   +2.35   -0.69   +1.66   D'Angelo Russell

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Here is a comparison of some past and present players using PER and RPM
Code:

PER     ORPM   DRPM    RPM
12.0   -0.68   +0.68   +0.00   Lonzo Ball
15.1   -0.74   +0.30   -0.44   Rajon Rondo
10.3   -0.77   +1.63   +0.86   Josh Hart
12.2   +1.19   -1.72   -0.53   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
12.8   -0.46   -1.03   -1.49   Lance Stephenson
26.3   +3.34   +1.51   +4.85   LeBron James
18.8   -1.72   +0.91   -0.81   Michael Beasley
11.8   -2.43   -0.32   -2.75   Brandon Ingram
15.0   +0.70   -0.82   -0.12   Kyle Kuzma
21.2   -0.63   +1.92   +1.29   Ivica Zubac
12.5   -2.27   +3.30   +1.03   Tyson Chandler
20.3   -3.35   +1.48   -1.87   JaVale McGee
17.2   +0.48   -3.94   -3.46   Jordan Clarkson
19.0   +0.07   +1.67   +1.74   Larry Nance Jr.
13.9   +0.58   +2.24   +2.82   Brook Lopez
21.6   +1.29   -1.32   -0.03   Julius Randle
19.0   +2.35   -0.69   +1.66   D'Angelo Russell


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Good read as usual. On the whole, they're in a strong position.

I would say the biggest blunder at this point was letting Randle get away. QO or team friendly deal makes you better now and potentially gives you more assets to work with. Smart management doesn't get nothing in return. Tough to say how the politics played out, but that was poor resource management.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Yes pure and simple.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Yes pure and simple.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject:

Yes if they whiff on signing a 2nd star, no otherwise. I'd rather have that star who moves us forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject:

This year is the proof in the pudding, a second star, and the plan absolutely worked.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:41 am    Post subject:

I think the question itself is a fallacy. It isn't a question of whether or not the Lakers gave up on most of the young players that are no longer here. It's a simple question of what is the main priority for the Lakers?

It is clear that the new leadership wants to win championships as soon as possible, and they believe that you best accomplish that with super stars. OK, so why not simply add super stars to the talented young roster as you go? The Lakers reject that strat because they do not want to be demolished by the HIGHLY punitive repeat tax payer penalties.

Also, it would've been impossible to keep most of those names that are now gone while also A} getting rid of either Mozgov or Deng's contract from the previous administration, and B} having enough cap space to land multiple super stars. The math simply doesn't add up.

Ingram or Randle? Ball or DLo? No... the question is, which rookie contracts stretch us out far enough into the future to give ourselves more time to get multiple super stars. We now have one, and this summer we can sign a second one while still having the flexibility to trade for a third one.

If we had long-term veteran contracts (like with and LouWill and BLopez) hanging around our necks, that cuts into this strat too deeply. Being forced to keep Clarkson's contract, or pay DLo/Randle/Nance Jr., etc. beyond their rookie salaries prohibits the upgrades we look to make unless we feel that one of them have super star material. I personally don't see it.

So I am not as down on Magic and Pelinka because of all the woulda coulda shouldas people bring up when we see our ex young players flourishing. Management is doing a great job staying focused.

Sure, there's no guarantee we'll land one or two "great" fishes, but Lebron alone along with any combination of what we either have or had would not have crossed the finish line for rings either, so I'm happy we are taking a chance by being patient before we hand out long-term contracts.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:19 am    Post subject:

With Randle you have to consider that they got nothing in return. Trade him for at least a first round draft pick...

Letting good players just walk (Pau!!!) is what I can’t understand at all.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:31 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Here is a comparison of some past and present players using PER and RPM
Code:

PER     ORPM   DRPM    RPM
12.0   -0.68   +0.68   +0.00   Lonzo Ball
15.1   -0.74   +0.30   -0.44   Rajon Rondo
10.3   -0.77   +1.63   +0.86   Josh Hart
12.2   +1.19   -1.72   -0.53   Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
12.8   -0.46   -1.03   -1.49   Lance Stephenson
26.3   +3.34   +1.51   +4.85   LeBron James
18.8   -1.72   +0.91   -0.81   Michael Beasley
11.8   -2.43   -0.32   -2.75   Brandon Ingram
15.0   +0.70   -0.82   -0.12   Kyle Kuzma
21.2   -0.63   +1.92   +1.29   Ivica Zubac
12.5   -2.27   +3.30   +1.03   Tyson Chandler
20.3   -3.35   +1.48   -1.87   JaVale McGee
17.2   +0.48   -3.94   -3.46   Jordan Clarkson
19.0   +0.07   +1.67   +1.74   Larry Nance Jr.
13.9   +0.58   +2.24   +2.82   Brook Lopez
21.6   +1.29   -1.32   -0.03   Julius Randle
19.0   +2.35   -0.69   +1.66   D'Angelo Russell




Advanced stats really do not like BI and Lonzo.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject:

Russell was polarizing, and the team clearly had it sights set on Ball. We saw an opportunity to get rid of Mozgov's contract to help clear space for two max slots.

Now in terms of our overall goal of getting two superstars, we failed in this trade. We let go a talented young player and did not get the 2nd superstar (probably Paul George). This is no doubt the first failure of Magic's tenure.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject:

Kuz for DLo I can live with that.

Randle and his agent made it personal.

Move on
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
If they had to get rid of DLO or BI to clear cap they did well at the time in keeping BI. He was considered a better prospect. BI had no chronic knee issue or locker room issues. He is younger and may still have a high upside than DLO. DLO is a knee injury away from finishing his season on the DL again.


There was one other scenario Eric left out when discussing the Mozgov deal. In hindsight the better decision arguably would have been to trade the #2 pick/Lonzo to dump the Mozgov trade.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
Move on

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

Shaber wrote:
With Randle you have to consider that they got nothing in return. Trade him for at least a first round draft pick...

Letting good players just walk (Pau!!!) is what I can’t understand at all.


Doesn't work that way as easy. Nobody is going to give up squat if he could walk from them, so he would have had to be signed first. Then you have to trade for equal value. You can't just trade him for a high draft pick without resigning him first and then our goal is finished.

You guys are acting like Rob and Magic have not thought this through. Don't you think that the two of them understand the ramifications?? I mean really!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject:

kaoss128 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
If they had to get rid of DLO or BI to clear cap they did well at the time in keeping BI. He was considered a better prospect. BI had no chronic knee issue or locker room issues. He is younger and may still have a high upside than DLO. DLO is a knee injury away from finishing his season on the DL again.


There was one other scenario Eric left out when discussing the Mozgov deal. In hindsight the better decision arguably would have been to trade the #2 pick/Lonzo to dump the Mozgov trade.


So, it took all this time for DLO to really begin to show his worth as a player. While Lonzo has his downsides, he is WAY BETTER than DLO at running a team. He has shown flashes of being a guy who can give us 15/10 every game with occasional 20+/10 games. But he runs the floor extremely well and plays solid D, two things that he does better than DLO. His shooting sucks but is showing improvement. I think he is going to be a star in this league but probably not a superstar. If we traded him for a chance at AD, so be it, AD would be worth it. But if we end out signing a guy like Kawhi and are able to keep Lonzo and Kuz, I think we will be a great fit for us. DLO needs the ball in his hands and he is a scorer more than a play maker. Like BI, don't see him as being a great fit next to Lebron. He just doesn't command the respect that someone like Kawhi or even Kyrie would.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject:

Despite the recent stretch of DLO playing well, neither player really moves the needle on a championship team. Neither is even an average defender, both have IQ issues on the court as well.

If the goal is to win a championship, neither is a good value beyond their rookie contract. It is always nice to have talented players coming off the bench, both DLO and J.R. would be strong players coming off the bench on a contender. Unfortunately neither of them think of themselves that way and want the minutes and pay that contenders reserve for better players.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject:

What I still do not (and will probably never) understand is PG's decision not to even consider signing with the Lakers. It is probably simply his ego, not wanting to be LeBron's sidekick. His decision is a lose-lose decision, in my opinion. He won't win a championship in OKC.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject:

i liked both and wanted both to stay. however I like hart and Kuzma a little more that DRuss. Have no clue why JR isnt here.
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