OT - Steve Francis Traded To New York for Penny and Ariza
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lionballer7
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject:

lol
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
The Knicks will right the ship. They have a GM who isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Now they have a proven and respected coach, which was the biggest missing piece for a while now. Furthermore, they have an owner who realizes the salary cap doesn't apply to teams who are in the bigger markets. Even with the Knicks team salary, they make money every year.

It's amazing Jerry Buss isn't willing to spend luxury tax dollars to get top players around Kobe, considering the Lakers franchise make more money than the Knicks franchise.




They have a GM who's done nothing but make terrible moves since the
day he was hired, in the shadow of the GM before him who did nothing
but the same.

It's nice for a team to be in such a big market that they can afford to go
over the cap without sitting on Mark Cuban money - but New York is
screwed on tons of its contracts and is still loaded with overpriced vets.

I don't know if you understand this whole "salary cap" concept, but there's
more to it than simply being over or under it.

When you're like the Knicks and load yourself top to bottom with all these
overpriced contracts, it makes future moves much more difficult not only
because your players are overpaid - but because you also then have to
match salaries closer in any deal.

NYK has one of the worst front-offices in recent memory.

I dunno what you're trippin' on man.



Hmmmm...I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the NBA salary cap and must be tripping on some dirty shrooms.

NBA and MLB have a "SOFT" SALARY CAP. Please... this isn't the NFL salary cap so let's not act like it is.

The Lakers can pay more and sign better free agent players if they wanted a better team around Kobe. Everyone knows Jerry Buss has decided not to pay luxury taxes.

Every NBA team has this option available if they can afford their team's salaries. The Knicks and Lakers are a few of the bigger markets who can afford this "luxury".

http://realgm.com/src_fromtherafters/97/20060222/born_a_day_apart_and_now_joined/

Quote:
There really is no such thing as salary cap hell for a team like the Knicks. Like the Yankees, the coffers are plentiful and no matter how high their payroll expands, they will have no problem retaining young talent like Channing Frye and Nate Robinson when they become restricted free agents in 2009.

In the end though, this is of course another double or nothing move and it is far from a lock for righting the Knicks ship and they are looking at a luxury tax hit of about $45 million for 06-07. But are the Knicks more talented than they were before this deal? Of course they are and it is now up to Larry Brown to find the right navigations over the last 30 games to head into this summer with some much needed relief and momentum.

Christopher Reina is the executive editor of RealGM.com and can be reached via email at Chris (@) RealGM.com.


Please excuse me why I join my pal Ricky for some more grass.
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject:

fakethefunk wrote:
I don't get it how is his contract a big deal? Honest question. No sarcasm


it comes off the books after this year.
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lakers0505
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
The Knicks will right the ship. They have a GM who isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Now they have a proven and respected coach, which was the biggest missing piece for a while now. Furthermore, they have an owner who realizes the salary cap doesn't apply to teams who are in the bigger markets. Even with the Knicks team salary, they make money every year.

It's amazing Jerry Buss isn't willing to spend luxury tax dollars to get top players around Kobe, considering the Lakers franchise make more money than the Knicks franchise.



umm i believe the figure is around 1.5 million or around their everytime madison square garden is open. Thats how much the knicks take in, in revenues, they resources are yankee like, unlimited. How much do the lakers take in each game at staples...not saying i want this crazy spending spree like the knicks do because as the knicks have shown it doesnt result in championships, jus a messed up salary cap.
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dirka dirka
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Buss would be paying the luxury tax if the expemtion wasn't made in the new CBA, its not like there are any freakin players out there we can currently get with our trade pieces that would push us over the cap limit more.

We are beyond maxed out, I don't get where you expect Buss to spend more money, they ONLY had the MLE and the LLE, I guess he coulda offered a long term contract to the scrubs that got them last year but that would keep us in cap hell for the term of their contract.

Regardless, perhaps Isiah is imagining a backcourt like the old detroit one that won 2 ships...(Isiah+Dumars)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject:

If the Knicks don't make any changes, then I don't think this was a good trade. You know, I was just thinking...it's ironic that both Isiah and Joe Dumars played on the same championship team, yet one knows how to build champions, and the other can't even build a contender.
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject:

dirka dirka wrote:
Buss would be paying the luxury tax if the expemtion wasn't made in the new CBA, its not like there are any freakin players out there we can currently get with our trade pieces that would push us over the cap limit more.

We are beyond maxed out, I don't get where you expect Buss to spend more money, they ONLY had the MLE and the LLE, I guess he coulda offered a long term contract to the scrubs that got them last year but that would keep us in cap hell for the term of their contract.

Regardless, perhaps Isiah is imagining a backcourt like the old detroit one that won 2 ships...(Isiah+Dumars)


If there is a will, there is a way.

Off the top of my head, let's say the Lakers kept Grant rather than cutting him to save luxury tax dollars. That would be about $15 million available this summer to trade for better players. Grant's final year would have been just like Penny's contract. Teams would be willing to give up an all star type player or a combination of young talent to get Grant's final contract so it would clear salary cap off their books after next season.

If Jerry Buss would have paid the luxury taxes to keep Grant this season, the Lakers would have his final year ($15 million) to trade this summer. That eliminates the "2007 salary cap plan" by creating the "2006 build a team around Kobe plan"!

The Lakers franchise is worth more than any other team in the NBA. Jerry Buss is wasting Kobe Bryant's prime years to save luxury tax dollars. Ironically, Jerry Buss would make up those luxury tax dollars by making the playoffs and getting more prime time games. Instead, teams like Miami are getting the prime time TV games. In the end, Jerry Buss is losing more money than he is saving in luxury taxes.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
The Knicks will right the ship. They have a GM who isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Now they have a proven and respected coach, which was the biggest missing piece for a while now. Furthermore, they have an owner who realizes the salary cap doesn't apply to teams who are in the bigger markets. Even with the Knicks team salary, they make money every year.

It's amazing Jerry Buss isn't willing to spend luxury tax dollars to get top players around Kobe, considering the Lakers franchise make more money than the Knicks franchise.




They have a GM who's done nothing but make terrible moves since the
day he was hired, in the shadow of the GM before him who did nothing
but the same.

It's nice for a team to be in such a big market that they can afford to go
over the cap without sitting on Mark Cuban money - but New York is
screwed on tons of its contracts and is still loaded with overpriced vets.

I don't know if you understand this whole "salary cap" concept, but there's
more to it than simply being over or under it.

When you're like the Knicks and load yourself top to bottom with all these
overpriced contracts, it makes future moves much more difficult not only
because your players are overpaid - but because you also then have to
match salaries closer in any deal.

NYK has one of the worst front-offices in recent memory.

I dunno what you're trippin' on man.



Hmmmm...I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the NBA salary cap and must be tripping on some dirty shrooms.

NBA and MLB have a "SOFT" SALARY CAP. Please... this isn't the NFL salary cap so let's not act like it is.

The Lakers can pay more and sign better free agent players if they wanted a better team around Kobe. Everyone knows Jerry Buss has decided not to pay luxury taxes.

Every NBA team has this option available if they can afford their team's salaries. The Knicks and Lakers are a few of the bigger markets who can afford this "luxury".

http://realgm.com/src_fromtherafters/97/20060222/born_a_day_apart_and_now_joined/

Quote:
There really is no such thing as salary cap hell for a team like the Knicks. Like the Yankees, the coffers are plentiful and no matter how high their payroll expands, they will have no problem retaining young talent like Channing Frye and Nate Robinson when they become restricted free agents in 2009.

In the end though, this is of course another double or nothing move and it is far from a lock for righting the Knicks ship and they are looking at a luxury tax hit of about $45 million for 06-07. But are the Knicks more talented than they were before this deal? Of course they are and it is now up to Larry Brown to find the right navigations over the last 30 games to head into this summer with some much needed relief and momentum.

Christopher Reina is the executive editor of RealGM.com and can be reached via email at Chris _at_ RealGM.com.


Please excuse me why I join my pal Ricky for some more grass.


Just because some random moron wrote it on RealGM means it must be true. Teams aren't just giving away all-star players with great contracts, great attitudes, and strong work ethic.

To get a player in trade matching some of those qualities, you're going to have to give something equivalent up or take something back truly awful along with the desired player. The Lakers really don't have those pieces to give away. So what do you do then?

You can sign a guy for the MLE, but with that amount of money you're still going to get a flawed player, whether they're over the hill, a headcase, lazy, etc.

So then you could draft, but to get a useful draft pick you're probably going to have to miss the playoffs and get into the lottery, which isn't going to leave fans happy.

So one of the best options is to get a player in free agency when they have a choice in the matter, this requires being under that "soft" salary cap. There is also the option of a sign and trade which often requires giving up talent and/or expiring contracts, and/or draft picks.

The Lakers have been choosing to go with the last two options unless a player becomes available who's flaws they can live with
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
sodapoppenski wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
The Knicks will right the ship. They have a GM who isn't afraid to pull the trigger. Now they have a proven and respected coach, which was the biggest missing piece for a while now. Furthermore, they have an owner who realizes the salary cap doesn't apply to teams who are in the bigger markets. Even with the Knicks team salary, they make money every year.

It's amazing Jerry Buss isn't willing to spend luxury tax dollars to get top players around Kobe, considering the Lakers franchise make more money than the Knicks franchise.




They have a GM who's done nothing but make terrible moves since the
day he was hired, in the shadow of the GM before him who did nothing
but the same.

It's nice for a team to be in such a big market that they can afford to go
over the cap without sitting on Mark Cuban money - but New York is
screwed on tons of its contracts and is still loaded with overpriced vets.

I don't know if you understand this whole "salary cap" concept, but there's
more to it than simply being over or under it.

When you're like the Knicks and load yourself top to bottom with all these
overpriced contracts, it makes future moves much more difficult not only
because your players are overpaid - but because you also then have to
match salaries closer in any deal.

NYK has one of the worst front-offices in recent memory.

I dunno what you're trippin' on man.



Hmmmm...I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the NBA salary cap and must be tripping on some dirty shrooms.

NBA and MLB have a "SOFT" SALARY CAP. Please... this isn't the NFL salary cap so let's not act like it is.

The Lakers can pay more and sign better free agent players if they wanted a better team around Kobe. Everyone knows Jerry Buss has decided not to pay luxury taxes.

Every NBA team has this option available if they can afford their team's salaries. The Knicks and Lakers are a few of the bigger markets who can afford this "luxury".

http://realgm.com/src_fromtherafters/97/20060222/born_a_day_apart_and_now_joined/

Quote:
There really is no such thing as salary cap hell for a team like the Knicks. Like the Yankees, the coffers are plentiful and no matter how high their payroll expands, they will have no problem retaining young talent like Channing Frye and Nate Robinson when they become restricted free agents in 2009.

In the end though, this is of course another double or nothing move and it is far from a lock for righting the Knicks ship and they are looking at a luxury tax hit of about $45 million for 06-07. But are the Knicks more talented than they were before this deal? Of course they are and it is now up to Larry Brown to find the right navigations over the last 30 games to head into this summer with some much needed relief and momentum.

Christopher Reina is the executive editor of RealGM.com and can be reached via email at Chris _at_ RealGM.com.


Please excuse me why I join my pal Ricky for some more grass.


Who said the NBA has a hard cap?

Not me.

That doesn't mean it doesn't screw you to be loaded with overpaid players
and be over the cap.

:roll:

Clueless.
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Exick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject:

You know what's crazy about the NBA? Imagine the reaction if a trade was made 10 years ago that put Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway on the same team.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Exick wrote:
You know what's crazy about the NBA? Imagine the reaction if a trade was made 10 years ago that put Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway on the same team.


Oh how the mighty have fallen!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject:

NY isn't going to right this ship for a long time, I don't care how much money they have or how much they don't care about the cap. Heads are going to have to roll for this to happen - that's right I'm talkin' to you Isiah, Larry, Stephon, and Steve. Before NY is a championship contender, one or more of these 4 guys, plus a lot of the current team members will have to be gone. This is simply too big a mess to be cleaned up without some major maneuvering and getting rid of these (bleeps).
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:20 am    Post subject:

Newsday: Francis Deal Part Of KG Strategy?
23rd February, 2006 - 12:35 am

Greg Logan/Newsday - Executives and personnel experts around the league questioned the odd coupling of Stephon Marubry and Steve Francis, and said Larry Brown was not in favor and suggested yesterday's deal was part of a risky long-term strategy by Isiah Thomas to trade for superstar Minnesota forward Kevin Garnett this summer.

One NBA general manager said Thomas sold Knicks owner James Dolan on a strategy to stockpile as many marketable assets as possible to make a play for Garnett, who has grown increasingly restless with the Timberwolves, who now might be ready to consider trading him.

Brown is said to have favored trading Hardaway's contract to Portland for center Theo Ratliff and small forward Darius Miles to fill the Knicks' need for more defense, rebounding and shot-blocking. But Thomas gambled on Francis, a strategy that could blow up in his face if Minnesota refuses to trade Garnett.

LINK.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject:

Not a Laker-related article (directly) - which is why I'm not starting a thread for it...

But a good read nonetheless.

Especially if you're like me, basking in the glory of NOT going after
the terrible fit that would have been Laker Steve Francis.

<Earth To Isiah>
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject:

orwell wrote:
Newsday: Francis Deal Part Of KG Strategy?
23rd February, 2006 - 12:35 am

Greg Logan/Newsday - Executives and personnel experts around the league questioned the odd coupling of Stephon Marubry and Steve Francis, and said Larry Brown was not in favor and suggested yesterday's deal was part of a risky long-term strategy by Isiah Thomas to trade for superstar Minnesota forward Kevin Garnett this summer.

One NBA general manager said Thomas sold Knicks owner James Dolan on a strategy to stockpile as many marketable assets as possible to make a play for Garnett, who has grown increasingly restless with the Timberwolves, who now might be ready to consider trading him.

Brown is said to have favored trading Hardaway's contract to Portland for center Theo Ratliff and small forward Darius Miles to fill the Knicks' need for more defense, rebounding and shot-blocking. But Thomas gambled on Francis, a strategy that could blow up in his face if Minnesota refuses to trade Garnett.

LINK.



THIS IS WHY BIG MARKET TEAMS STOCKPILE PLAYERS! New York is taking advantage of the soft salary cap. It's amazing how so many still don't understand this. What do the Lakers have to offer for a Garnett type player? Bynum? Please...keep dreaming.

Time will tell. In the coming years, we'll see which franchise becomes better and what approach worked best. Knick's aggressive approach or Lakers conservative approach?!?!

The Knicks have more talent and trade value than the Lakers. Nobody can make a sound arguement otherwise.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
orwell wrote:
Newsday: Francis Deal Part Of KG Strategy?
23rd February, 2006 - 12:35 am

Greg Logan/Newsday - Executives and personnel experts around the league questioned the odd coupling of Stephon Marubry and Steve Francis, and said Larry Brown was not in favor and suggested yesterday's deal was part of a risky long-term strategy by Isiah Thomas to trade for superstar Minnesota forward Kevin Garnett this summer.

One NBA general manager said Thomas sold Knicks owner James Dolan on a strategy to stockpile as many marketable assets as possible to make a play for Garnett, who has grown increasingly restless with the Timberwolves, who now might be ready to consider trading him.

Brown is said to have favored trading Hardaway's contract to Portland for center Theo Ratliff and small forward Darius Miles to fill the Knicks' need for more defense, rebounding and shot-blocking. But Thomas gambled on Francis, a strategy that could blow up in his face if Minnesota refuses to trade Garnett.

LINK.



THIS IS WHY BIG MARKET TEAMS STOCKPILE PLAYERS! New York is taking advantage of the soft salary cap. It's amazing how so many still don't understand this. What do the Lakers have to offer for a Garnett type player? Bynum? Please...keep dreaming.

Time will tell. In the coming years, we'll see which franchise becomes better and what approach worked best. Knick's aggressive approach or Lakers conservative approach?!?!

The Knicks have more talent and trade value than the Lakers. Nobody can make a sound arguement otherwise.


You are the one who's clueless. If the Wolves trade KG, they're in full rebuilding mode, they want draft picks and expiring contracts and young players. The Knicks traded away their draft picks for Eddie Curry, otherwise the high lottery pick this season would be tempting. They also gave the Bulls the option to switch next years pics. Steve Francis or Marbury is something the Wolves DO NOT want if they trade KG. Especially Francis, who's a head case even before he step foot on the NBA court, who's also way overpaid. Do not equate spending wildly for success, SA do not spend alot and see what they're able to do. NY has spend wildly for years and look at their record, what do they get for all the money spent?
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