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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Are Wade Robson and James Safechuck suing Michael's estate? |
Yes
They lost once
They sued after death
Their lawyers have posted for appeal |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Are Wade Robson and James Safechuck suing Michael's estate? |
Yes
They lost once
They sued after death
Their lawyers have posted for appeal |
Do you believe that winning in US legal system equals innocence in general or is the MJ case unique to you? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Are Wade Robson and James Safechuck suing Michael's estate? |
Yes
They lost once
They sued after death
Their lawyers have posted for appeal |
Do you believe that winning in US legal system equals innocence in general or is the MJ case unique to you? |
As you point out, there's a common misconception about what a "not guilty" verdict means. People confuse it with being proven innocent or "exonerated". But being found not guilty doesn't inherently mean you didn't do what you are charged with. It simply means that the charge wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt - which is different than being innocent of the charges.
This misconception is exploited by those who have the personal need to argue the "innocence" of people who are clearly guilty of the accusations they face. Thus, we have people who can't accept that their heroes and idols could be guilty of the atrocious acts they are accused of.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Can you imagine pain severe enough to compel someone to do that to their own face?
Robbed of his childhood, cursed to grow up without a true friend, so detached from society and humanity as to create a literal Neverland to attract children upon whom he would use intoxicants, sexual imagery and a pronounced home court advantage to arrange sleepovers with male children in his bedroom, secluded from all others and protected by an 'adult alarm'.
Repeatedly.
with lots of kids,
well, just the boys.
why would he do that? |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12165
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | People that still defend Michael Jackson are just blind, deaf and very very dumb. There is enough dirt on MJ to bury a small village. I mean, its crazy how many people are so blinded by his stardom and forget that he was a very troubled soul and was not all there. I don't doubt some folks might be out for money, fame, etc., but I have no doubt that the man committed crimes with boys. Its hard for hardcore fans to separate the man from the entertainer. |
Interesting. So much dirt yet the FBI couldn't get enough on him over a 10 year period secretly investigating him. |
True, but OJ Simpson also walked a free man after slaying his wife and her friend. Money buys freedom sometimes. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | True, but OJ Simpson also walked a free man after slaying his wife and her friend. Money buys freedom sometimes. |
and vice versa....a very sad truth. There are different justice systems for different people...from the time of arrest and processing.....all the way through a trial. The very perceived ability of the victims financial resources to fight back are often a consideration of a prosecutor before bringing charges. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| in regards to Robson, it is my understanding he has had significant success as an adult....both via levels of profession and financially, right? Also, if I am not mistaken, he was near the height of his career during the 1st trial when he testified Jackson did not abuse him. Going from the guy that is young attractive, doing well financially while working with N'Sync and Brittany Spears to the guy that Jackson molested is not an attractive path for anyone. I can honestly attest that as a heterosexual male that was raised to embrace masculinity....my teen years through my early 30's would have been the most difficult time to admit that I was molested by another male. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | in regards to Robson, it is my understanding he has had significant success as an adult....both via levels of profession and financially, right? Also, if I am not mistaken, he was near the height of his career during the 1st trial when he testified Jackson did not abuse him. Going from the guy that is young attractive, doing well financially while working with N'Sync and Brittany Spears to the guy that Jackson molested is not an attractive path for anyone. I can honestly attest that as a heterosexual male that was raised to embrace masculinity....my teen years through my early 30's would have been the most difficult time to admit that I was molested by another male. |
If this is true it seriously dents my believe of a money grab by Robson. How about Safechuck?
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Robson sure for $1.9 billion that was a money grab. He didn’t make millions in his career |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Robson sure for $1.9 billion that was a money grab. He didn’t make millions in his career |
Yeah, forgot that. He didn't get paid. I didn't watch the entire doc.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:51 am Post subject: |
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look at dudes last name
Rob you son..  |
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splashmtn
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Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Are Wade Robson and James Safechuck suing Michael's estate? |
Yes
They lost once
They sued after death
Their lawyers have posted for appeal |
Do you believe that winning in US legal system equals innocence in general or is the MJ case unique to you? |
As you point out, there's a common misconception about what a "not guilty" verdict means. People confuse it with being proven innocent or "exonerated". But being found not guilty doesn't inherently mean you didn't do what you are charged with. It simply means that the charge wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt - which is different than being innocent of the charges.
This misconception is exploited by those who have the personal need to argue the "innocence" of people who are clearly guilty of the accusations they face. Thus, we have people who can't accept that their heroes and idols could be guilty of the atrocious acts they are accused of. |
true, but you also have people who say you can just go around waving the guilty flag on everyone accused of something bad. sorry the evidence supports the fact that MJ was a weirdo that wanted to be a kid in his adult age. the evidence has never shown that he liked little boys in sexual manner, nor touched little boys/girls in a sexual manner. just because someone that has switched their story up 50 times and has a financial stake in the game comes up with a remixed version of the same old story. it doesnt mean it actually is true, no matter how bad it SOUNDS. Just because someone puts the words Documentary and "based on a true story" does not mean its actual fact. ESPECIALLY when only one side is being told and the other is not. Neither is there an impartial middle ground angle. it's a lopsided doc, with a guy who changed his story. so i'm not sure which true story its based on are you?
again, lets not confuse weirdo for sicko. there can be a difference.
There is also Weirdo, Sicko, and Creep. Weirdo's should not be jailed or lose civil suits for being weirdos. Creeps should not be jailed, but some should lose civil suits. Sickos should be jailed and lose civil suits.
Rkelly is a sicko, and weirdo, and a creep.
Jackson from all of these investigations (not Alle-gations) is nothing more than a weirdo. There is a huge difference between the two based on acrtual investigations done by law enforcement and the fbi. If you're going to continue to call someone guilty because the supposed victim has a tough story to tell you. if thats what you need to make someone guilty of a crime. than why do we have investigations. all we should do is say, whoever comes up with the most salacious story wins. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | People that still defend Michael Jackson are just blind, deaf and very very dumb. There is enough dirt on MJ to bury a small village. I mean, its crazy how many people are so blinded by his stardom and forget that he was a very troubled soul and was not all there. I don't doubt some folks might be out for money, fame, etc., but I have no doubt that the man committed crimes with boys. Its hard for hardcore fans to separate the man from the entertainer. |
Interesting. So much dirt yet the FBI couldn't get enough on him over a 10 year period secretly investigating him. |
True, but OJ Simpson also walked a free man after slaying his wife and her friend. Money buys freedom sometimes. |
its not the same thing, apples to oranges. OJ's trial had possible setup implications in it. not that they set him up for doing something he didnt do. but that they possibly tampered with evidence to make darn sure he went down for what he may have done. That was their fault for doing that. that was there fault for having racist people involved. perhaps OJ got off on a technicality.
that is not what MJ did. MJ got off and was still investigated over and over and over again. and they found absolutely nothing in regards to him being sexual with children.
one of the sings of an abuser is that he victimizes other people/kids that he knows has been victims of abuse prior to meeting him/her. basically these sick dudes/women can sniff out a victim. This is why its so powerful when the other Corey still stands by what he said years ago. Mj didnt touch him sexually at all. even though recently he says he supports any victim and therefore wont be defending mj like that. which makes good sense. but if you have a pedo messing with kids, but he skips over the kid that has been messed with. that seems a bit strange.
people keep making the jump from weirdo to sicko. you can't do that. not all weird people are criminals. some people are just that. very weird. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Can you imagine pain severe enough to compel someone to do that to their own face?
Robbed of his childhood, cursed to grow up without a true friend, so detached from society and humanity as to create a literal Neverland to attract children upon whom he would use intoxicants, sexual imagery and a pronounced home court advantage to arrange sleepovers with male children in his bedroom, secluded from all others and protected by an 'adult alarm'.
Repeatedly.
with lots of kids,
well, just the boys.
why would he do that? |
read what i said above, there is a difference between weirdos and sickos. you can't call them one and the same. sometimes they are. sometimes they are not. just because some dude is weird, very weird. does not make him a sick person that does criminal things.
what is usually the key ingredient to a to a child molester? they have been a victim of the same or similar child molestation when they were children.
Has any evidence come out saying MJ was sexually abused as a child? not that I know of. Physically abused by joe? perhaps. But thats not sexual.
This is one thing Rkelly has going against him. he has admitted and his family member has admitted to Rkelly being abused by a family member when he was young. thats why with all the allegations and the footage, and the marriage certificate to Aaliyah you can go out on a limb and say ...yeahhhh you probably did it and have been doing it to young girls. because it was done to you.
Not so with Mjackson. no past child molestation that we know of with him. No evidence after MULTIPLE investigation and the fbi got involved not just some keystone cops or some paid off PD. supposed boys that were touched saying they were not touched for years. now you want to switch your story up. Nope, not buying it. there's a difference between being weird and wanting to be around kids and play like a kid with kids as if you were 8 yrs old again. vs trying to get kids to come around so you can molest them.
You can have the former weird stuff with out the later sick stuff. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Robson sure for $1.9 billion that was a money grab. He didn’t make millions in his career |
Yeah, forgot that. He didn't get paid. I didn't watch the entire doc. |
he doesnt need to get paid for the DOC. Play Checkers not chess.
you dont get paid for the documentary. so you can say "it's not about the money."
while you're waiting for the documentary to tear MJ apart and make him look like a sick person. If you are succesful, have a much higher probability of winning a CIVIL suit against MJ's estate. In addition, anything he does in live now will have people coming to see, interviews etc. he may even have a boost to any businesses he has off of this because everyone now sees him as a victim. there is a lot to gain from that doc financially without being paid to do the actual documentary itself.
and remember the cosby ladies swearing they were not in it for the money. so if that were the case, why is one of them that we know of going ahead with a civil suit currently? its because after i make you look really bad in the public. i can make it that much easier to win a CIVIL suit against you or your estate. Chess, not checkers. do not be fooled when you hear people say "i dont need the money" or "I'm not doing this for money." Especially when you're talking about people who are not already rich. and especially when we're talking about wade who has changed his story up and done things that do not seem or feel like something a victim would do in his adult age in regards to Jackson. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
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If you want to make the argument that Michael Jackson settling his lawsuits is not an admission of guilt, that's fine. But you can't then dismiss anyone who files a lawsuit as being a liar looking for money.
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Dude was a great preformer loved his music but I wouldn't let anyone related to me near him.
He was most likely a predator and should of been in jail, at best he had no healthy boundaries with little kids and shouldn't be around them |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Never convicted
Taking the word of people who already swore under oath nothing happened
Investigated by FBI for 10 years No conviction
Convenient to make this after he cannot defend himself |
Also, Corey Feldman & Maculy Calkin both to this day claim that nothing even close to sexual ever happened with them and MJ. |
Corey Feldman Says He Can ‘No Longer Defend’ Michael Jackson After ‘Leaving Neverland’
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I understand Feldman not wanting to continue to defend Michael, he was a victim of abuse. The documentary makes it difficult for anyone to defend him.
I didn't watch the entire doc, it was to disturbing. What I saw led me to surmise Michael was a pedophile. I admit to maybe being in denial when the allegations in the past were levied.
Corey again confirmed Michael didn't abuse him. That may have been why he defended him in the past.
| Quote: | | “I cannot in good consciousness defend anyone who’s being accused of such horrendous crimes, but at the same time, I’m also not here to judge him, because, again, he didn’t do those things to me and that was not my experience,” he told Headline News. “My place is not to be the judge and is not to be the accuser and not to be the defender.” |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Never convicted
Taking the word of people who already swore under oath nothing happened
Investigated by FBI for 10 years No conviction
Convenient to make this after he cannot defend himself |
Also, Corey Feldman & Maculy Calkin both to this day claim that nothing even close to sexual ever happened with them and MJ. |
Corey Feldman Says He Can ‘No Longer Defend’ Michael Jackson After ‘Leaving Neverland’ |
| Quote: | | "It comes to a point where, as an advocate for victims, as an advocate for changing the statutes of limitations to make sure that victims’ voices are heard, it becomes impossible for me to stay virtuous and not at least consider what’s being said and not listen to what the victims are saying. This is very important,” he continued. “We must give them their voice. We must allow them to speak. And therefore, we also must consider all sides of this, even as uncomfortable as that may be." |
Completely agree with this, bolded in particular. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | If you want to make the argument that Michael Jackson settling his lawsuits is not an admission of guilt, that's fine. But you can't then dismiss anyone who files a lawsuit as being a liar looking for money. |
no one said that ANYONE that is suing is looking for money is also a liar. you could be telling the truth and still suing. The problem with mr wade is that he has switched his story up numerous times. in addition, the so called doc is completely one sided. so anyone trying to make a logic decision based on that doc is not being completely logical about it. you have to include both sides. Anyone telling just their side with enough flair in his environment will get the people on their side. we're already leaning towards the victims sides nowadays anyway. well the so called or alleged victim's side. all they need to do is give you a bit more and thats enough. you believe them. this is one unfortunate part of being accused of something even if you didnt do it. It's going to make you look bad first before you can clear your name or at best make the other person look a lot less credible. All i'm saying is Wade aint a credible person in regards to this MJ stuff. not at ll. neither of these guys are. There are too many holes when you look at all sides of the equation and not just this so called...documentary.
And then there's a 3rd theory that no one is talking about. lets say it all happened as wade states. the abuse happened. but lets also venture to say it was a blackmail money grab. Here's the thing. If i wasnt there so its he say, she say basically. Then I find out you're trying to blackmail someone or force them to pay you or you are trying to reap financial gains from what happened in different ways, you try to get back in with the estate for that cirqu thingy, that didnt work, you attempt to sue MJ's companies that didnt work. now you're trying to sue his estate why trying to make him look bad in the public eye. because you chose to go about this way vs just coming out saying you were abused from the jump. Then its a wash. because None of us were there and unless there's a tape or two (R kelly situation has tapes supposedly.) it will remain he said, he said. when its a 50/50 chance that someone did or didnt do something like this you can't ride with such a questionable accuser. you just can't. it doesnt mean it didnt happen. it just means he's too questionable to believe. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Never convicted
Taking the word of people who already swore under oath nothing happened
Investigated by FBI for 10 years No conviction
Convenient to make this after he cannot defend himself |
Also, Corey Feldman & Maculy Calkin both to this day claim that nothing even close to sexual ever happened with them and MJ. |
Corey Feldman Says He Can ‘No Longer Defend’ Michael Jackson After ‘Leaving Neverland’ |
| Quote: | | "It comes to a point where, as an advocate for victims, as an advocate for changing the statutes of limitations to make sure that victims’ voices are heard, it becomes impossible for me to stay virtuous and not at least consider what’s being said and not listen to what the victims are saying. This is very important,” he continued. “We must give them their voice. We must allow them to speak. And therefore, we also must consider all sides of this, even as uncomfortable as that may be." |
Completely agree with this, bolded in particular. |
and thats the truth. i like his response. It's not about defending Mike. It's about saying I dont know, so if I dont know I can't start #cancelMJ. Like i said earlier, there's something fishy when you have corey who has been a victim. saying mike never touched me. usually these kind of abusers go after people they know are primed to be victims like...former victims of abuse. but for some reason per corey, didnt happen. doesnt mean he didnt touch wade. just means, we dont have a precedent. we just have a lot of maybe he did because he inappropriately hung with kids way to closely for an adult. but that does not automatically say he did something to those kids.
We know you dont have to hang with kids like mj did to harm kids. we have many molesters that dont have a neverland ranch and they have still touched kids. there are family members, friends of family members, that have just touched kids in their homes. no long term groom process, nothing. they just did it. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Never convicted
Taking the word of people who already swore under oath nothing happened
Investigated by FBI for 10 years No conviction
Convenient to make this after he cannot defend himself |
Also, Corey Feldman & Maculy Calkin both to this day claim that nothing even close to sexual ever happened with them and MJ. |
Corey Feldman Says He Can ‘No Longer Defend’ Michael Jackson After ‘Leaving Neverland’ |
you see what you did there rules? you provided a link but a headline that if people dont take the time to click "which a lot of people wont." they will ASSUME " oh no, they believe that these things happened to these people and MJ did it." thats not what either of them said as posted by another poster. As a victim's advocate and a victim yourself, you should be super cautious with stuff like this. But he still said "I dont know if mike touched wade, but i know mike didnt touch me." Still saying it. you know, the same thing wade told us multiple times, "mike didnt do those things to me." |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | Dude was a great preformer loved his music but I wouldn't let anyone related to me near him.
He was most likely a predator and should of been in jail, at best he had no healthy boundaries with little kids and shouldn't be around them |
listen, as big as a MJ fan i was as a kid. had the the pins, had the jacket, etc. He was my guy. I always thought that neverland stuff was super weird. I never wanted to go there. I remember my dad and mom asked me "would you like to go there?" not that they were taking me or anything just asking. I was like NOPE. I dont like adults hanging with kids like that unless its in a student teacher type of situation. I had my eyes open when out to camp with adults. cause ya never know.
and aint no way on God's green earth my daughter, son, niece, nephew would be at neverland in a different wing without me being there too.
Listen, if i had to make a quick store run, I wouldnt say "mike can you look after my nephew for a few mins." Nope, not going to happen. And thats even if I knew mike personally. Why? because I dont think you should put your kids or children in POSSIBLE harms way. Dont do it. After the allegations even if they were all false. I'm still not putting a kid in that environment. It's not fair to them. has nothing to do with Mike's guilt or not. You just dont do that. which tells you all you need to know about these parents. and what they were out for from the jump. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Trying to fight a mob is a losing proposition. Once they've determined, sight unseen, that a subject is guilty of something, then it's as good as fact in their minds. A person who can endure 2 decades of police scrutiny and avoid charges is either:
a) A criminal mastermind
or
b) An innocent weirdo.
Most evidence suggests Michael Jackson was a certified weirdo. No known evidence suggests he was a Pedo, although there's a couple decades of innuendo suggesting so. Usually the evidence follows the innuendo if there is a basis, especially over the course of decades. The guy is dead. No harm can come to him now, so why won't somebody, at least one person, produce some actual evidence? Just like Monica Lewinsky with the blue dress, somebody had to have kept a compromising memento.
In any event, I'm not going to join the mob without evidence. (Although in his defense, he seemed pretty enthusiastic when singing - Just Beat It )
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