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Why do we do this every time? When Injuries are by far the #1 reason we are losing games
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:11 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

This team won 35 games last year without a single all star. Lonzo missed his 30 games, BI was out for 20.

The roster was a bit deeper and better constructed, even if it lacked the elite top end talent of LBJ.

you do realize the season aint over right?

and you do realize you just named w players missing a lot of games. lets go over this again.

LBJ went down for how long?
HOw many games did rondo miss?
How many games have zo and is zo going to miss if he never comes back?
How many games has BI missed?
How many games has kuz missed including the one he played like 5 mins in because he went down early?

How many games has josh hart tried to play on that bum knee?

How many games has Chandler not played/couldnt play many mins because his body aint right.

zo, bi, josh are all young, still missed games.
Bron is aging, rondo is aging even though the injuries for rondo have nothing to do with age.
Chandler is old now. but we were not playing him a ton.

Dont confuse poor roster construction means you can't win it all, to meaning poor roster construction meaning you cant make the playoffs, when we were clearly making the playoffs until the rash of injuries killed us time and time again. we're still getting hurt laker fans. we just lost 2 more guys. and you guys are still going to play like you are not seeing that? crazy

venturalakersfan
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:12 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

"injuries" is what all losing teams point to. It's an excuse.

The Ws aren't talking about Stephs groin, the Sixers talking about Embid's 'half-man/half a season, Raptors fans aren't complaning about Khawais "load management" .... and on and on and on.

Only losing teams complain about injuries. The fact is we're UNDER .500 with LBJ in the starting line-up.

LOl at this post. you just proved me point.

The W's... really. the W"s. sitting there with two...not one. but TWO MVPS on one team. multiple allstars. STOP IT.

Sixers. tanked to pull off what they finally have now. great, do you want us to INTENTIONALLY keep tanking until we get embid level talent and simmons level talent? we can.. are you down for that kind of intentional losing? by the way embid has simmons. thats my point. we have one guy, ONE. there is a reason magic is chasing a 2nd star so hard. you just proved why.

The raptors have another allstar on the team oh you forgot about that. again proving magic's point. you need at least 2.

If you dont have 2 stars and you have this many injuries there is no way to sustain winning. pure and simple. there's a reason why magic said we need 2 stars.

So explain the Clippers contention if you need 2 stars. They have none, all they have is a well balanced roster, players who play hard and smartly and a solid FO/ownership. You are doing a good job of emphasizing why Magic is failing.
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splashmtn
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:13 am Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Don Draper wrote:

adkindo wrote:

danzag wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

A poorly constructed team is why we lose games, every team has injuries.

Yeah, look at the Rockets. No Capela, no CP3, no problem.

oh james harden doesnt ring a bell?

you see what i'm saying. yall dont even have legit arguments. you just want to be mad at someone. magic told you we needed 2 stars. magic said give him these next two off seasons. and you guys are losing it before we can even try to get that 2nd star. every team with a 2nd star was able to maintain some kind of winning record while their other star was out. this is why you need at least 2 if you are really serious about making the playoffs AND contending. we were not about to contend this season. that was never the plan. if it happened because the kids stepped up like crazy. Great, but that was never the realistic plan.

dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:15 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Of course the roster is poorly constructed.
We went all in for LBJ and rented vets to preserve cap space for this off-season.

The FO has this summer to make good on their vision.

that too. but bad roster and all. we were stillllll 4th. why do people act like that was not the case when we were healthy?

This year was a barely make the playoffs year. get the kids some post season burn and see what we got and get this summer. but we were trending in 4th place. thats a bit better than barely making the offs. then the wheels fell off.
rondo down again, Bron down for the longest time ever in his career(lucky us.) Zo down(has been healthy as could be for the entire year and now he's probably done for the season),
Chandler hasnt been right for a solid month.
Mcgee is dealing with burn out. chandler was supposed to take some of those mins while still maintaining a solid defensive presence(zu could not do this vs the elite C's and athletic c's, zu could score on all those guys but thats it.)

Kuz goes down with an issue, Bi goes down. they come back. bron aint 100% healed from that injury. shoot, i dont even know if rondo's hand is healed all the way.

Because despite the injuries and everything else, we were still in the playoff hunt just before the break. We had some easy teams coming up and everyone but zo able to play. However, we’ve nearly lost to all those easy teams and our playoff chances as a result. Again if those are the losses keeping you out of the playoffs then it’s not an injury problem.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:16 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

And this may be a footnote in history, but in reality, they're just excusing the poor decisions.

Let me ask you this then, if you're saying it's only about the injuries, would you double down on this team and bring back KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez again this summer?

I mean, it's only the injuries right? (and the answer is hell no).

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yinoma2001
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:17 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Don Draper wrote:

adkindo wrote:

danzag wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

A poorly constructed team is why we lose games, every team has injuries.

Yeah, look at the Rockets. No Capela, no CP3, no problem.

Did Magic say we weren't making the playoffs with LBJ though? He probably thought the roster construction was solid.
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Vancouver Fan
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:18 am Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

Because other teams get hurt and succeed.

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kikanga
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Location: La La Land

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Don Draper wrote:

adkindo wrote:

danzag wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

A poorly constructed team is why we lose games, every team has injuries.

Yeah, look at the Rockets. No Capela, no CP3, no problem.

I disagree. If you rank every team's best player, then rank every team's 2nd best player. We have the largest gap in the league.
So much so, nobody knows who'll be our 2nd best player in any given game. Lebron going down for us hurt us more than any injury on any team in the league.

Houston still had an MVP healthy. OKC had PG13 when Westbrook was out.
San Antonio has some sort of crazy PG curse. But both their stars (All NBA 2nd team players from last year) have been healthy.

With that said, sure Luke could've coached better. A better team could've been constructed. But if Lebron doesn't go down. We're somewhere between 5-8 in the playoff race.
He played all 82 games last year. So it wasn't unreasonable to expect him to stay healthier than he was.
Lonzo and Rondo missing a months worth of games didn't help either. Beasley had a family tragedy. Hart can't get back to 100%. The list goes on an on.
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Last edited by kikanga on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 am; edited 5 times in total

activeverb
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Why do we do this every time? When Injuries are by far the #1 reason we are losing games

splashmtn wrote:

We being laker fans go crazy and start looking for actual PEOPLE to blame for losing games when it's clear as day. If your team gets attacked by that injury bug you can't win games consistently because you lose team chemistry, in addition to losing whatever those players bring to the table.

Unlike teams that have been together for 3+ years under the same coach/system. our team is kids + 1 year deals and bron. You can't sustain multiple injuries to multiple people throughout the season and maintain cohesion with that kind of group. it can't happen. So why every year this happens we lie to ourselves and start blaming everyone else? when the problem is as clear as day. It's the injuries.

You take away half of these injuries and we're in the playoffs at the 7th or 8th seed. Even with all the other drama and so called bad FO and BAD coaching.

If you keep getting hurt at multiple positions throughout the year. you will burn out the guys that havent been hurt as much. and thats even if they're young. its still 82 games. thats a lot of basketball.

Its simple, what was our record before Bron went down? and we already had a few injuries even prior to that. We know he didnt come back at 100%. Then Zo went went down and hasnt seen the light of day since. Josh hart has been playing hurt for a very long time. BI has been in and out of the lineup. Rondo has been in and out of the lineup. Kuz has been in and out of the lineup.
Tyson has been in and out of the lineup. even javale got sick for a few games.

There is no building a team that will sustain that many injuries throughout the season and keep trucking along like nothing ever happened.It doesnt happen.

When Lebron went down with his injury, we had already feasted on the easy part of the schedule and we're on runs of 3-4 and 5-5 depending on where you want to draw the line in the sand. So the standings argument falls flat for. I think we'd be better without the injuries, but I don't think we'd maintain the early season winning pace.

We've had a lot of injuries. I think that's a factor in our problems. But so are the FO, lack of player development, coaching and Lebron, or at least the hope/perception that he would suddenly become a different player.

I am not sure there is a #1 reason. I think that's in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I think the main reason is that this team was designed as a placeholder team, rather than a team that was designed to win. Because of that the margin of error for success was tiny.

But, sure, we are not far from making the players (and probably being swept in the first round). It's not hard for me to imagine that injuries kept us from the 8th seed. But it's not hard for me to imagine that better player development or better team construction would get us the 8th seed too.

RG73
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Why do we do this every time? When Injuries are by far the #1 reason we are losing games

activeverb wrote:

Personally, I think the main reason is that this team was designed as a placeholder team, rather than a team that was designed to win. Because of that the margin of error for success was tiny.

And I think you're largely correct on the placeholder notion, but even that demonstrates the poor logic and planning. Because the margin of error was so small, when the issues compound you risk things blowing up and looking like a disaster of a franchise, thus scaring off the the free agents you planned on courting to begin with.

If it's 2 stars or bust, then they needed to build a roster better able to withstand injuries and still make the playoffs, feature the young guys along with Lebron, and make the team and culture stand out for prospective free agents as a desirable destination. They've succeeded in the opposite, while the guys sharing Staples seem to be making a stronger case as a destination.

Theseus
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:39 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Injuries doesn't explain why we traded a young productive player for an unproductive older player.

Yeah every time I want to look back and say injuries hurt the team and we were tracking well before them. I remember this.

who are we talking about? Zu. Zu produced on offense and looked good some nights. then got worked over other nights. there's a reason he was on the bubble again this season. just because you see a kid go on a nice little stretch doesnt mean he figured it ALL out. it could mean simply the right circumstances were there to make him look good. the team we played doesnt have anyone that can guard him. and he doesnt have to worry about guarding a high level player at his position. its like us getting Kanter. great game in the paint, but can't guard a soul. but the nights he doesnt have to guard the C due to the fact some teams dont have good C's. then he looks like an allstar.

We trade him for Muscala, why? For a better "team fit" because the roster is poorly constructed. Then we go out looking for another center, why? Because that wasn't a good trade, and we are weaker after it was made.

"Producing some nights, getting worked over other nights" describes a lot of players, though. Especially young players.

Not putting up numbers against good centers is a myth. He put up 16/11 on AD with 2 blocks, and 80% from the field against Anthony Davis, a guy who we nearly, and very openly, traded half of our team for.

It was just a bad trade to unload him. The more you look at it, the less sense it makes. The fact that LA is looking for another center adds more credence to that viewpoint.

Mamba Mentality
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:50 am Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Injuries doesn't explain why we traded a young productive player for an unproductive older player.

Yeah every time I want to look back and say injuries hurt the team and we were tracking well before them. I remember this.

Yeah he's no all-star, but better than Muscala. He gave better effort on the defensive end. Muscala was brought in to shoot threes and it just hasn't been working out.
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dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

It is a myth that we have an unusual number of injuries. This is a common misperception in sports: fans of a team do not have a basis for comparing their team's injuries to the injuries on other teams.

Go here, and find the chart that was posted on March 2:

https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostNBA

The x-axis is the total games lost due to injury. The size of the bubble is based on the impact of the games lost, based on one of the metrics (I don't remember which one they use -- maybe win shares). There are ten or more teams that have bubbles about the same size as ours. (The underlying data is behind a pay wall. If someone feels like dropping the bucks, go for it.)

So yes, it comes down to team construction. We could not withstand a level of injuries that was ordinary.

Funny how the TC ignores this post since it basically destroys his argument on an objective basis.

Top 5 teams with most games missed by injured players

1. DEN
2. CLE
3. PHI
4. BRK
5. CHI

Top 5 teams with wins lost due to injured players

1. GSW
2. CLE
3. TOR
4. NOP
5. HOU

Lakers no where near either list, so injury excuse doesn't fly.

splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Of course the roster is poorly constructed.
We went all in for LBJ and rented vets to preserve cap space for this off-season.

The FO has this summer to make good on their vision.

but we didnt have everyone but zo able to play. guys missed time in that stint as well. hart has been hurt the entire time(we didnt know that then but we know it now). why do we keep acting like this is not the case?

we were hurt before then, we were hurt during that moment and we are STILL hurt today. what part of "we're hurt" dont us laker fans get? you can't succeed of you're that injured.

Bi has been Ballin on the offensive end since we came back from the AS break. But his defense hasnt been nearly as good as it was prior. why? Because he's tired. He has chosen to score over playing defense and scoring. he's out of gas. why is he out of gas? because he had to play PG when Rondo and Zo were both out and he had to play some pg when rondo OR zo were out. which also meant he had to run around chasing little guards on defense. This is what happens when you keep getting hurt as a team. you wear out the guys that are still some what healthy.

RealSkipBayless
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Posts: 129

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:02 pm Post subject:

Lebrons on and off the court antics and schedule difficulty changing have much more to do with it than injuries.

splashmtn
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Posts: 3961

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

The God Particle wrote:

The clippers aint contending for a darn thing. they are going to the playoffs. Good for them. they are not about to contend for anything. Neither were we, even without injuries , even in the 4th spot. we still knew better than to call ourselves CONTENDERS. so dont start telling veggie tales about the clippers contending. they arent.

And keep bringing up the clippers, who have been together for a few seasons, under the same coach, same play calls with most of the same guys. Any moves they made were a part of the fact they already had 2 stars on their team an an allstar. did yall forget this? DJ, Cp3, blake. the lakers had? kids.
we just got lebron. But there's a reason the clippers had DJ, Blake, and cp3.

They had blake/dj because they sucked for so many years they got good picks while the lakers were winning rings and going to the finals. we all know how they got cp3 dont we?

its not an apples to apples comparison at all.

splashmtn
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Injuries doesn't explain why we traded a young productive player for an unproductive older player.

Yeah every time I want to look back and say injuries hurt the team and we were tracking well before them. I remember this.

Yeah he's no all-star, but better than Muscala. He gave better effort on the defensive end. Muscala was brought in to shoot threes and it just hasn't been working out.

shoot, even Muscala was hurt. Lol the guy has only been here for like a day and he was hurt.

splashmtn
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

wrong. all statistics have to be within context. and no one is avoiding a thing.

Its not just the sheer total number of injuries. its' WHO gets injured.

in football if your RB gets hurt but we know most teams are not running everything thru their RB, you can survive. but if you QB gets hurt, than your backup QB gets hurt, then your 3rd string QB gets hurt, then 2 of your WRs gets hurt. then your backup qb comes back. then your RB comes back, then your back QB goes down again, now you ask your TE to play QB and TE.
This is what the lakers have had to deal with.

again, you can't pull any one stat and say "SEE" it doesnt work that way. if you want to play the stat game. you will need to pull multiple stats and talk about what each of these players contribute to their teams or dont contribute.

I mean lets say some guy on the edge of the bench has been hurt for 70 of the 82 games. thats some guy boosting the total injury days off number for the entire team making it looked like they lost 82 games to injury when in reality that guy wasnt going to play much anyway.

and then it does not tell you what happens if you keep having to have the healthy guys cover the spots for the injured guys. what happens to their games on offense AND defense. Is there an Energy level stat? maybe, but i dont know of any.

Guys, I'm not trying to take away the Cons of Jeanie Buss, Magic/Pelinka, Luke, Bron, the kids, the vets, begging for stars over going all in on the kids, etc. Not excusing anything that could be or was/is negative. I'm just saying we go thru this year in and year out. even some of those previous seasons we would've won a lot more games if it wasnt for the ridiculous amt of injuries and the back and forth injuries to different key guys. its one thing for one guy to be hurt. thats bad enough if said guy is a key cog. but you almost learn how to play without him after awhile. but to have him down for a 2 weeks, then back in, then down for a month. then back in. then to lose another guy for 6 weeks then back in, then another guy down for 6+ weeks, then back in. another guy down for a week then back in, another in and out. that is the chemistry killer. the little chem you could get with a 1 year group of vets and kids + bron is out the window the moment guys start getting hurt at that kind of frequency. There is no stat for that(YET). if there is, please hit us all with a link to the Chemistry/Cohesion as it relates to injuries....stat.

splashmtn
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Posts: 3961

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Injuries doesn't explain why we traded a young productive player for an unproductive older player.

Yeah every time I want to look back and say injuries hurt the team and we were tracking well before them. I remember this.

Yeah he's no all-star, but better than Muscala. He gave better effort on the defensive end. Muscala was brought in to shoot threes and it just hasn't been working out.

Listen, I was a Zu guy. will always have a place in my heart for big Zupac. and I wanted to keep him around once he again started showing flashed but i had to remind myself, he did this before. showed flashes than got killed, showed flashes then stunk it up. showed flashes ...killed again. it could all be youth. maybe we should've waited. but i hear all of you yelling about stretch big this, stretch big that. well we got one of those, actually two with mo wags who's also been Hurt..lol. There's been many of game where we all were like Throw Mo Wags out there and then we were reminded by the injury report "mo wags will not be available today...."

splashmtn
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Why do we do this every time? When Injuries are by far the #1 reason we are losing games

RG73 wrote:

activeverb wrote:

Personally, I think the main reason is that this team was designed as a placeholder team, rather than a team that was designed to win. Because of that the margin of error for success was tiny.

you both are correct. but.... if its' 2 stars or bust. well its bust why? we only have 1 star. It was designed that way. if we have too many injuries to key guys its over. we knew it. but thats the price you pay for 1 year guys and kids as a roster.

you can't go throwing solid guys multiple years and have money left over for the 2 stars or bust plan. you dont have the cash to pull that off. You can't sign the tobias harris' of the nba along with bron and have enough cash for that 2nd super star. because its not 2 stars or bust, its 2 SUPERstars or bust. The reason that is the case is twofold. #1 thats the laker way and its worked forever. #2. You see that team up north? yeah, you aint beating that team with a solid team. aint going to happen. you need two monsters to even have a remote chance of catching them slipping. lets be honest about it. bron and kyrie only beat them due to draymond getting suspended, Iggy having back spasms the following game from playing too much during drays absence. and Bogut going down. and thats the pre durant team. think about that. You either go all in or suck and do a philly. there is no reason to hover around the 7th seed forever and never be able to properly acquire the right assets because we didnt have a bunch of stars to trade or let go and clear cap(clippers).

King Randle
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Why do we do this every time? When Injuries are by far the #1 reason we are losing games

splashmtn wrote:

I totally agree with you. 21-14 after they destroyed GS on Christmas...3rd seed at the time. Then they lose there best player by far for 2 months...along with a pretty important piece in Rondo...BI goes down and of course Zo twice this year. This team depended too much on Bron and when he went down...kiss the season good bye. Do other team have injuries? Sure great example was Boston last year when they lost Gordon and Kyrie yet made it to the East finals. The difference? A superior coach. This is were Walton failed miserably. He couldn't even have the team play close to .500 while Bron was gone. I can't wait until this is over when this clown is fired.

dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

dabask11 wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

Of course the roster is poorly constructed.
We went all in for LBJ and rented vets to preserve cap space for this off-season.

The FO has this summer to make good on their vision.

Again we had Lebron, BI, Kuz and rondo against all those bottom dwellers. That is more than enough to beat them especially against teams like the suns, who were like 1-19 before facing us.

Yes we are not healthy completely but more than healthy enough to beat the hawks, grizz, pelicans w/o ad and suns without trouble. If zo is the difference to beating those teams then injuries aren't the problem.

Every team is going to be out of gas in some fashion at this point, so it's even a sillier excuse. BI may be a bit tired and his defense has somewhat fallen off. However, his offense has more than made up for it to where everyone says BI is playing in the best stretch of his career. Add that to Kuz, Rondo and Lebron and it should have been enough to beat the bottom dwellers we've faced so far in this stretch.

dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

dabask11 wrote:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostNBA/status/1101977626971787264

The link posted by AH does add who's injured in context to the stats. The bigger the bubble, the more impactful the injuries are to the team. The laker's bubble isn't bigger than most teams and is located right in the middle of games missed by players. This is why the lakers are on neither top 5 list and as AH stated earlier, shows the injury excuse is a myth.

So even with context, the injury excuse doesn't fly for the lakers

yinoma2001
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject:

Post n Pivot y'all. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals

dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

splashmtn wrote:

Mamba Mentality wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Injuries doesn't explain why we traded a young productive player for an unproductive older player.

Yeah every time I want to look back and say injuries hurt the team and we were tracking well before them. I remember this.

Yeah he's no all-star, but better than Muscala. He gave better effort on the defensive end. Muscala was brought in to shoot threes and it just hasn't been working out.

And despite that would still contribute better than muscala at the end of the day.

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