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Mr.81 Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 223
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
The bigger difference would be the Clipper have a much much better coach in Doc who would get the most out of his players not what role players each team decides to sign. Who the Lakers pick to coach the team next year will be very important in building a championship team. |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11508
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
What do we have left after Klay? Vet min and/or a room exception? So we'd have Zo/Klay/BI/LBJ/no center with Kuz/Hart/Wagner/Bonga? Vs. Kyrie/Lou/KL/Gallinari/Zu plus Harrell/SGA/Shamet/Robinson?
Yeah, gotta give the edge to the Clippers in that scenario, especially given we don't know BI's status, Lonzo has yet to play more than 52 games in a season and the Lakers will still have a big hole at center and apparently no idea how to fill that. |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | splashmtn wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | KBH wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
Your narrative doesn't fit, bro. |
We'd be celebrating getting the 2 max all the while losing the battles on the margin. That's what worries me the most.
LBJ is not an ends, it's a means.
2 max FAs is not an ends, it's a means.
But our current FO seems to operate under the assumption that it's "mission accomplished" once we get 2 max FAs. | i dont think you understand whats going on.
What you have seen from even mitch and jim, and now rob and magic for these one year mercenaries is nothing like what you would see if we were building for a championship. we have not had the chance to build for a ring yet. if we get two guys we will start surrounding them with what we believe to be complimentary pieces. What you've been seeing has absolutely nothing to do with what you would see if we knew we would be in contention.
and no i'm not afraid of the clippers. but the clippers do have an advantage. they never had to unload guys and lose due to mos and deng contracts. the clippers had our guy cp3 and had blake and dj for being so sorry for so long. they drafted high enough to get the two bigs. this is how and why they have all of these assets. people give them props for letting go of blake early and getting good prospects and players for him. but they couldnt win with 2 superstars and 3 allstars. that alone should make you think twice about the clippers doing anything right. but sure jerry w is over there now. so you never know. |
So you know what's going on then?
So this is an elaborate plot to be a lottery team after signing one of the greatest players ever. I was fine with being a first round team as a realistic expectation.
So maybe LBJ is just trying to get out of school early to start filming Space Jam 2. Is that what's really going on then? | see you're trying to talk about two things at the same time. you can't.
you want to talk about why we are this bad in this season right now? you already know that answer you just dont like it because you can't yell at anyone for this answer. its called INJURIES. start naming the teams that have 2 starters and 2 Main cog players out for the season, where said teams are still deep in the playoff race. Injuries derailed our 4th place spot. its that simple. This year was not intentional how it worked out in the end.
but as for what TYPES of role players magic and pelinka will go get is night and day different because what we're attempting to do at that moment will be completely different to what we are trying to accomplish with our role guys after we get two stars. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mr.81 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
The bigger difference would be the Clipper have a much much better coach in Doc who would get the most out of his players not what role players each team decides to sign. Who the Lakers pick to coach the team next year will be very important in building a championship team. |
But look at their value signings. Montrez, my goodness every team would kill for him on his deal. Lou's deal was a steal compared to his production. Shamet/SGA are on rookie deals, and they stole Zub from us.
So you have competent coaching and a FO that finds value. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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RG73 wrote: | Username wrote: |
Firstly you can't prepare for things like blood clots. Magic built a team that was contending for the playoffs when everyone was healthy, and things fall apart and now we're out of the playoffs. These are facts.
Secondly, I understand how poor training can lead to injuries. The point I was trying to get at, which I can see how you misread so I apologize for making you type all that, is what evidence can we present to show that the Lakers’ allegedly “not using the latest and greatest training science and monitoring” is to blame for these injuries? How do we know this is the case? Are we using that as gospel now because the most unhealthy looking man on TV Brian Windhorst said it?
As I look at the NBA injury report today, there are 19 players listed with knee injuries and nine with ankle injuries. Are all those related to “not using the latest and greatest training science and monitoring” too, or does that only factor in when it’s a Lakers player who gets injured? Injuries happen across the NBA. Lonzo Ball rolled an ankle, a lot of players roll their ankles. Kevin Durant did the other night. It happens. |
You're moving the goal posts. No one is blaming BI being down on the Lakers training. Lonzo, for example, had structural issues going back to the summer. The knee issue, followed by surgery, followed by no real training during the summer, likely meant he had structural imbalances. That, in turn, could have made him more prone to ankle injuries. I'm not saying it could have been totally prevented, but it's likely he has underlying issues that could have been addressed with a better training staff.
And it isn't just Windhorst saying this--many media people have pointed out out for years the Lakers are not on the cutting edge of anything. No one ever writes articles about the Lakers being on the cutting edge because they aren't, not because there is some anti-Lakers bias. And I believe the Lakers have been among the leaders in time lost to injury for something like a decade running now. Windhorst is just restating something that's obvious--we can look at the Lakers training staff and as far as I'm aware none of them are considered the top guys in the world. If someone more versed in training has insight contrary to this, I'd love to know. |
I'd love to know as well. There's this narrative being pushed recently that the Lakers are penny-pinching it with a crap training staff. But again, I don't know what this is based on. It's easy to say after the fact, after a string of injuries happen, "well, their trainer isn't very good." People were saying that about Gary Vitti too. I don't think some of you understand that injuries happen all around the NBA, all the time. Embiid is having issues with his knee again. He *gasp* stayed out longer than the initial timeline the Sixers gave him. Is the Sixers staff trash too? Curry missed a chunk of time with a bad knee this year, Green missed some time with a foot injury, and now Durant has rolled his ankle. Should we start questioning the Warriors staff too?
If you want to push the narrative that the training staff isn't up to par, you can easily do that, but the reality is injuries happen all over the NBA. Some guys are more prone to it than others. And sometimes it hits you all at once and there's no good reason for it. |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Mr.81 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
The bigger difference would be the Clipper have a much much better coach in Doc who would get the most out of his players not what role players each team decides to sign. Who the Lakers pick to coach the team next year will be very important in building a championship team. | LUke would have almost the same record if he was the clippers coach and doc would have almost the same record as luke if he coached this hurt team. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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splashmtn wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | splashmtn wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | KBH wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
Your narrative doesn't fit, bro. |
We'd be celebrating getting the 2 max all the while losing the battles on the margin. That's what worries me the most.
LBJ is not an ends, it's a means.
2 max FAs is not an ends, it's a means.
But our current FO seems to operate under the assumption that it's "mission accomplished" once we get 2 max FAs. | i dont think you understand whats going on.
What you have seen from even mitch and jim, and now rob and magic for these one year mercenaries is nothing like what you would see if we were building for a championship. we have not had the chance to build for a ring yet. if we get two guys we will start surrounding them with what we believe to be complimentary pieces. What you've been seeing has absolutely nothing to do with what you would see if we knew we would be in contention.
and no i'm not afraid of the clippers. but the clippers do have an advantage. they never had to unload guys and lose due to mos and deng contracts. the clippers had our guy cp3 and had blake and dj for being so sorry for so long. they drafted high enough to get the two bigs. this is how and why they have all of these assets. people give them props for letting go of blake early and getting good prospects and players for him. but they couldnt win with 2 superstars and 3 allstars. that alone should make you think twice about the clippers doing anything right. but sure jerry w is over there now. so you never know. |
So you know what's going on then?
So this is an elaborate plot to be a lottery team after signing one of the greatest players ever. I was fine with being a first round team as a realistic expectation.
So maybe LBJ is just trying to get out of school early to start filming Space Jam 2. Is that what's really going on then? | see you're trying to talk about two things at the same time. you can't.
you want to talk about why we are this bad in this season right now? you already know that answer you just dont like it because you can't yell at anyone for this answer. its called INJURIES. start naming the teams that have 2 starters and 2 Main cog players out for the season, where said teams are still deep in the playoff race. Injuries derailed our 4th place spot. its that simple. This year was not intentional how it worked out in the end.
but as for what TYPES of role players magic and pelinka will go get is night and day different because what we're attempting to do at that moment will be completely different to what we are trying to accomplish with our role guys after we get two stars. |
Yes, no one's at fault for anything. This is just a mulligan year.
We expected to be a lottery team.
Give me a break. I'm still giving Magic until the summer to come through (and I hope I do), but I'm also going to be objective about the many problems with this season. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. And he didn't get nearly the head start assets-wise that the Clippers FO had. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
Lol Magic literally had to call a team meeting after the deadline in an attempt to reunite the team after the deadline, and you're here acting like the deadline had no impact on the team. That's some good kool-aid. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
So the team's morale (including the YUTES, and I agree BI stepped up) improved after they were dangled in the trade? I don't owe blind loyalty when there are clearly things going wrong here.
On the one hand, I'm glad we didn't make any crippling Moz/Deng level moves and were able to get a then-top 3 player in LBJ.
But on the other hand, we are in the lottery again. There's nothing wrong with taking a long hard look at what went wrong so the Lakers don't make a Moz/Deng level move come summer 2019. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
Lol Magic literally had to call a team meeting after the deadline in an attempt to reunite the team after the deadline, and you're here acting like the deadline had no impact on the team. That's some good kool-aid. |
I didn't deny that he had a meeting, I denied that they gave up on the season. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
Lol Magic literally had to call a team meeting after the deadline in an attempt to reunite the team after the deadline, and you're here acting like the deadline had no impact on the team. That's some good kool-aid. |
I didn't deny that he had a meeting, I denied that they gave up on the season. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. |
So what was the meeting about? |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
So the team's morale (including the YUTES, and I agree BI stepped up) improved after they were dangled in the trade? I don't owe blind loyalty when there are clearly things going wrong here.
On the one hand, I'm glad we didn't make any crippling Moz/Deng level moves and were able to get a then-top 3 player in LBJ.
But on the other hand, we are in the lottery again. There's nothing wrong with taking a long hard look at what went wrong so the Lakers don't make a Moz/Deng level move come summer 2019. |
Did I say the morale improved? You're putting words in my mouth. I said they didn't give up. The play of our young guys clearly illustrates that.
As far as morale, what are they supposed to do? Not trade players because someone might get their feelings hurt? |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
Lol Magic literally had to call a team meeting after the deadline in an attempt to reunite the team after the deadline, and you're here acting like the deadline had no impact on the team. That's some good kool-aid. |
I didn't deny that he had a meeting, I denied that they gave up on the season. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. |
So what was the meeting about? |
What the meeting was about, and what the players actually did going forward, are two completely different things, do you understand that? Even if you want to assume the meeting was to explain the situation and rally the troops, the fact is that going forward, based on the play of guys like Ingram, they clearly DIDN'T give up on the season. They still played hard and played well, despite the wins not showing up. |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
So the team's morale (including the YUTES, and I agree BI stepped up) improved after they were dangled in the trade? I don't owe blind loyalty when there are clearly things going wrong here.
On the one hand, I'm glad we didn't make any crippling Moz/Deng level moves and were able to get a then-top 3 player in LBJ.
But on the other hand, we are in the lottery again. There's nothing wrong with taking a long hard look at what went wrong so the Lakers don't make a Moz/Deng level move come summer 2019. |
Did I say the morale improved? You're putting words in my mouth. I said they didn't give up. The play of our young guys clearly illustrates that.
As far as morale, what are they supposed to do? Not trade players because someone might get their feelings hurt? |
Act like professionals rather than negotiating through the media and picking up tampering charges. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Did I say the morale improved? You're putting words in my mouth. I said they didn't give up. The play of our young guys clearly illustrates that.
As far as morale, what are they supposed to do? Not trade players because someone might get their feelings hurt? |
When you shoot your shot, when you try to topple a government and you fail, there are consequences.
I'm a big AD fan, and if that trade went down, I'm sure there are ways I could justify it. But it didn't. And there were real consequences for that.
How some people can't just realize that is beyond me. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | KBH wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Username wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Let's put it this way.
Say Clips get their 2 all stars, say KL/Kyrie (for argument's sake).
Say the Lakers get Klay. So we have LBJ/Klay.
Do you trust the Clips to build around the margins better with complementary role players? Or do you trust the brain trust that gave 28-29m to KCP/Rondo/Lance/Beez? |
With each roster as presently constructed, not accounting for injuries, we would be the better team. |
Well, you have to account for injuries. Currently BI has a blood clot issue that we do not know the outcome. And BI is a big part of the picture. |
But you have to account for the fact that the guy you're talking about (Magic/Rob) is the one who didn't trade Ingram, who drafted Kuzma, who drafted Ball, who signed LeBron.
I like that track record. It hasn't been perfect, but you're asking me to compare, a "rookie" executive, that's not a bad track record. You have to account for injuries, but you also have to account for the fact that if those injuries hadn't happened, those are some pretty good moves. |
But they tried to trade everything (reportedly) for AD? Isn't that the reason why the YUTES all apparently gave up and the team morale is shot? |
They didn't give up. That's another false narrative. BI played his best basketball after the trade rumors.
And yes, he tried to trade everything (reportedly) -- what's the crime there? You acquire assets (and that's what players are, for better or worse) either to play them, or use them to get better assets. |
Lol Magic literally had to call a team meeting after the deadline in an attempt to reunite the team after the deadline, and you're here acting like the deadline had no impact on the team. That's some good kool-aid. |
I didn't deny that he had a meeting, I denied that they gave up on the season. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. |
So what was the meeting about? |
What the meeting was about, and what the players actually did going forward, are two completely different things, do you understand that? Even if you want to assume the meeting was to explain the situation and rally the troops, the fact is that going forward, based on the play of guys like Ingram, they clearly DIDN'T give up on the season. They still played hard and played well, despite the wins not showing up. |
What the players did going forward was lose game after game while displaying a lack of chemistry. But I'm sure you've got some rosy soon for this too. |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: |
Act like professionals rather than negotiating through the media and picking up tampering charges. |
Pretty sure the leaks on the AD trade were not coming from our side. |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Did I say the morale improved? You're putting words in my mouth. I said they didn't give up. The play of our young guys clearly illustrates that.
As far as morale, what are they supposed to do? Not trade players because someone might get their feelings hurt? |
When you shoot your shot, when you try to topple a government and you fail, there are consequences.
I'm a big AD fan, and if that trade went down, I'm sure there are ways I could justify it. But it didn't. And there were real consequences for that.
How some people can't just realize that is beyond me. |
You can't run an organization based on hurt feelings. You won't get anywhere that way.
Now, these young players are human beings, not robots. I understand that, but it's a business, and I think they also understand that. Maybe not as much now as they will when they enter free agency and have more power on their side, but it's still a business at the end of the day. Players get traded, released, etc. ALL THE TIME. You have to do the job you're paid to do regardless. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | Points 1 and 2 seem to contradict. Praise the medical staff for finding Ingram's problem, but then say the Lakers are behind the curve in terms of medical? |
I didn’t hear the conversation but I assumed that #1 was discovered by one of the medical clinics they use (such as Kerlan Jobe) while #2 refers to the Lakers own training staff. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Did I say the morale improved? You're putting words in my mouth. I said they didn't give up. The play of our young guys clearly illustrates that.
As far as morale, what are they supposed to do? Not trade players because someone might get their feelings hurt? |
When you shoot your shot, when you try to topple a government and you fail, there are consequences.
I'm a big AD fan, and if that trade went down, I'm sure there are ways I could justify it. But it didn't. And there were real consequences for that.
How some people can't just realize that is beyond me. |
Seems a little blown out of proportion though. Yes, we sucked during and after the trade rumors being leaked. But it's also fact that the players involved in those rumors did not suck - it was the malcontents we signed in the beginning of the offseason that caused pjiddy and me to have a conniption and start ruminating about when this house of has-beens and never-were's would come crumbling down.
Also, didn't Rich Paul and team leak it? not magic, etc? I feel like there's a lot of (bleep) to throw against this FO, but trying to get AD, and the eventual fallout, is not one of them (with the very large exception of the PACKAGE we were trying to trade - that was foolish). |
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Username Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 4718 Location: Out There
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: |
What the players did going forward was lose game after game while displaying a lack of chemistry. But I'm sure you've got some rosy soon for this too. |
What team were you watching? BI played his best basketball of the season after the rumors, Kuzma was his usual self and dropped the big 39-point game against Philadelphia. If anything, the failings down the stretch point more toward the shortcomings of the "veterans" on the team more so than anything to do with the young players, although I understand that's a convenient excuse for the agenda you're trying to push here. |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Username wrote: | KBH wrote: |
Act like professionals rather than negotiating through the media and picking up tampering charges. |
Pretty sure the leaks on the AD trade were not coming from our side. |
And if there weren't truth to the leaks, or if Magic and co. had offered public affirmations of their current roster, a team meeting wouldn't have been necessary. Rather, Magic's own behavior lends validity to the leaks. Particularly when your star player notes how he's always going to recruit in public settings and also doesn't refute or downplay rumors or reaffirm commitment in the players currently on the team. Blockbuster trades happen all the time without being this public or requiring team meetings. There's a reason why. |
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