Brian Windhorst Breaks Down the Disastrous Lakers Season.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
If LeBron missed 18 games in any Cavs season the last 4 years and isn’t healthy going into the playoffs... they don’t make the Finals

It’s a major thing being overlooked in this season is that we end up having what 25 games where LBj Ball Ingram all played? That’s ridiculous

We’re judging the entire plan and season and even LBJ on a team that was not healthy.

In a way this will work for us
Even if LBj Ball Ingram played 70 games together
Made playoffs
We’re bounced round 1 or 2

Now we’re going to draft in the top 10
We have a better trade asset or maybe even a really good young player

I’m fine with the plan for now



The injury angle is the single biggest reason for this season's collapse and is criminally overlooked in most of the hand-wringing by those with an anti-Magic agenda.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Not that any fan opinion matters, but putting together a roster that works really shouldn't be that hard.

Every team has 2-3 players who are "must starts". Then, there are the 4-5 secondary players that only need to be "Derek Fisher type" guys in order to fill out a competent roster. For those role players, hustle and BBIQ can make up for myriad physical shortcomings given the coaching staff gets the combinations right. Lakers FO really should be looking at "value" guys instead of "names".

Again, who cares what I think, but here are several NON STARTERS (ignoring availability and contract cost) that fill roles very well and can contribute in a meaningful way to TEAM wins:
    Guards - Rozier, Dellavedova, Ish Smith, George Hill (semi-starter), Ntilikina, Patty Mills, Patrick Beverly (semi-starter), VanVleet, JJ Barea (assuming health), Cory Joseph, Josh Hart (notice he is not a power forward?), LaVert, Nwaba, Gary Harris, Lou Williams (semi-starter), Belinelli, Korver
    Forwards - Sefolosha, David Bertans, Bogdanovic (both of them), Oubre, Markieff Morris, Snell, Olynyk, Looney, Faried, Iggy (of course), Cheick Diallo, Ed Davis, Gerald Green, Dekker, llysova. Honorable Mention -Jonathan Williams and Moe Wagner (will be soon)
    Centers - Richaun Holmes, Noel (this year), Zubac, Montrezl Harrell, Jordan Bell, Zizic, Baynes, Len

So, I intentionally left off all of the starters on teams and players that seem to disappear when on the court. Assuming you can already afford your existing 2-3 "must starts", FA money is easily spent on another 2-3 "starters" to finish the "5". From there, you have a couple of bench keepers and a couple of the above and you're done. Make adjustments throughout the season for injuries and possible upgrade trades. It's really not that hard, IMO....

An example of MEANINGFUL players who potentially would be obtainable for 2019-2020:
    Lonzo, (10M 2-3 YR FA $$ Beverly/Rozier), Ish Smith
    (15M 2-3 YR FA $$ Middleton/Bogdonvic), Retain Bullock over cap, Hart
    Ingram (or trade him to reduce FA $$), Kuz (needs to be off the bench anyway), Gerald Green
    LBJ, Wagner, Dekker
    (1 YR 10M OVERPAY FA $$ - Boogie/Jordan/JaVale), (Lesser FA $$ - Noel/Holmes/Ed Davis)

This wouldn't be the "2 max plan" but all these dudes can play and are complements to LBJ. It also retains the kids and if you are careful with the contract structures, it still allows for a somewhat realistic path to Anthony Davis if available.

Something like this, to me, makes WAY more sense than gutting the roster and swinging for the fences anyway...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject:

I feel like the Lakers front office has been in decline since the 90s. I've read that that's when Dr. Buss started running things differently and giving more responsibilities to Jim Buss. When Kobe demanded a trade in 2007 he said the front office was a mess, and Shaq agreed with him and said that's why he wanted to leave. It seems like Phil Jackson kept the lid on and that he and Kobe ultimately nudged Dr. Buss back into the fold in 2007 just enough to get us two more titles. Although it seems like the Pau Gasol trade may have been more serendipity than the result of planning and preparation.

Imo this offseason is Maginka's one shot to right the ship. Even if they get just Jimmy Butler and a few good role players and maybe resign Rondo, and in doing so show a coherent basketball philosophy when it comes to half court offense, that would really help. Otherwise, we're on our way to becoming the new Knicks - all prestige and no substance.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject:

I'm more likely to listen to a tired, winded horse.
Then listen to Brian Windhorst.
Someone who can't deal with being outside Lebron's inner circle. Got the past LBJ free agency completely wrong. And has no inside knowledge for our franchise.

But that's just me.
With all that said, yes we could've used more shooters. And yes we still would've made the playoffs if we weren't affected by injuries more than any other team in the league.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I'm more likely to listen to a tired, winded horse.
Then listen to Brian Windhorst.
Someone who can't deal with being outside Lebron's inner circle. Got the past LBJ free agency completely wrong. And has no inside knowledge for our franchise.

But that's just me.
With all that said, yes we could've used more shooters. And yes we still would've made the playoffs if we weren't affected by injuries more than any other team in the league.


And maybe we'd have less injuries if we had a better training staff.

And maybe we could survive those injuries if 29 million wasn't spent on absolute garbage. We know about Jules and Brook. But look at these other signings.

Joe Harris: 2 years/ 16 million (46% from 3, 3-point champ)
Bogdanovich: 1 year 10.5 (42% from 3)
Ed Davis: 1 year/ 4.4 mil

I mean...(bleep).

Before we play the "Lakers weren't giving out 2-year deals," Magic has proven he knows how to trade a good player for absolutely nothing in return if all we care about was the cap space.

Just imagine this lineup:

Lebron
Brandon Ingram
Harris
Bogdanovich
Brook Lopez

:drooooool:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:

And maybe we'd have less injuries if we had a better training staff.

And maybe we could survive those injuries if 29 million wasn't spent on absolute garbage. We know about Jules and Brook. But look at these other signings.

Joe Harris: 2 years/ 16 million (46% from 3, 3-point champ)
Bogdanovich: 1 year 10.5 (42% from 3)
Ed Davis: 1 year/ 4.4 mil

I mean...(bleep).

Before we play the "Lakers weren't giving out 2-year deals," Magic has proven he knows how to trade a good player for absolutely nothing in return if all we care about was the cap space.

Just imagine this lineup:

Lebron
Brandon Ingram
Harris
Bogdanovich
Brook Lopez

:drooooool:


Rondo breaking his dominant hand.
Lebron missing a month overextending his groin.
Lonzo rolling an ankle.
Ingram having a blood clot.
I don't really blame the training staff for those things.

2 things can be true at once. If we kept Julius and Brook, we would've been better off.
And we would've made the playoffs if we weren't so devastated by injuries. More so than any other team in the league.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject:

this is some pretty common stuff that any FO should have in their mind...But nope not Magic and Pelinka it's all about getting that 2nd star. Build a competent basketball team you idiots.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Agree that Magic's star fixation has been one of the major problems. When he 1st came on, what did he say, he praised the young core & vowed to develop them. Then he turned around & said he only cared about stars. Magic deserves a lot of blame.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Magic has gotten LeBron to LA
He should have Anthony Davis here too
Can’t fault him that the league is always lined up together to work against the Lakers- telling the Pelicans to not trade AD here.

The package the Lakers offered for AD will be available for other stars
He will land one via trade at some point

Let’s see what he does with capspace this summer

In 2 years he hasn’t made one cap destroying move. People hurt over Russell. A) Russell was gonna ask for a max this year. Bye bye cap. B) Ingram gives them another year. C) Russell wasn’t ever going to be the star he is in BRK in LAL especially in Lebrons shadow and in Lukes system

We have capspace to sign a mega star
We have 4 lottery level assets - Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and a lottery pick

I’d give them until end of July to show what they can do


Klutch was the reason we couldn’t get AD. Hopefully our FO stays arms length away from Rich Paul.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:45 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
pjiddy wrote:

And maybe we'd have less injuries if we had a better training staff.

And maybe we could survive those injuries if 29 million wasn't spent on absolute garbage. We know about Jules and Brook. But look at these other signings.

Joe Harris: 2 years/ 16 million (46% from 3, 3-point champ)
Bogdanovich: 1 year 10.5 (42% from 3)
Ed Davis: 1 year/ 4.4 mil

I mean...(bleep).

Before we play the "Lakers weren't giving out 2-year deals," Magic has proven he knows how to trade a good player for absolutely nothing in return if all we care about was the cap space.

Just imagine this lineup:

Lebron
Brandon Ingram
Harris
Bogdanovich
Brook Lopez

:drooooool:


Rondo breaking his dominant hand.
Lebron missing a month overextending his groin.
Lonzo rolling an ankle.
Ingram having a blood clot.
I don't really blame the training staff for those things.

2 things can be true at once. If we kept Julius and Brook, we would've been better off.
And we would've made the playoffs if we weren't so devastated by injuries. More so than any other team in the league.


So are we going say the same injury excuse when the lakers suffer them again next season?

It isn't the first time the lakers could say injuries derailed their season.

This is where the criticism of the laker's being run like a "mom and pop" shop come into play.

Why do we suffer multiple injuries almost every year? Why are we so devistated by them that we can't make the playoffs as a result?

That's what an innovative FO would try to answer instead of saying we were just unlucky this season, let's try it again the same way next year.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:10 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
pjiddy wrote:

And maybe we'd have less injuries if we had a better training staff.

And maybe we could survive those injuries if 29 million wasn't spent on absolute garbage. We know about Jules and Brook. But look at these other signings.

Joe Harris: 2 years/ 16 million (46% from 3, 3-point champ)
Bogdanovich: 1 year 10.5 (42% from 3)
Ed Davis: 1 year/ 4.4 mil

I mean...(bleep).

Before we play the "Lakers weren't giving out 2-year deals," Magic has proven he knows how to trade a good player for absolutely nothing in return if all we care about was the cap space.

Just imagine this lineup:

Lebron
Brandon Ingram
Harris
Bogdanovich
Brook Lopez

:drooooool:


Rondo breaking his dominant hand.
Lebron missing a month overextending his groin.
Lonzo rolling an ankle.
Ingram having a blood clot.
I don't really blame the training staff for those things.

2 things can be true at once. If we kept Julius and Brook, we would've been better off.
And we would've made the playoffs if we weren't so devastated by injuries. More so than any other team in the league.


So are we going say the same injury excuse when the lakers suffer them again next season?

It isn't the first time the lakers could say injuries derailed their season.

This is where the criticism of the laker's being run like a "mom and pop" shop come into play.

Why do we suffer multiple injuries almost every year? Why are we so devistated by them that we can't make the playoffs as a result?

That's what an innovative FO would try to answer instead of saying we were just unlucky this season, let's try it again the same way next year.


Bout but but new shiny facility and UCLA... it’s obvious lakers are oblivious and just think names win games and fan support
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:28 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Magic has gotten LeBron to LA
He should have Anthony Davis here too
Can’t fault him that the league is always lined up together to work against the Lakers- telling the Pelicans to not trade AD here.

The package the Lakers offered for AD will be available for other stars
He will land one via trade at some point

Let’s see what he does with capspace this summer

In 2 years he hasn’t made one cap destroying move. People hurt over Russell. A) Russell was gonna ask for a max this year. Bye bye cap. B) Ingram gives them another year. C) Russell wasn’t ever going to be the star he is in BRK in LAL especially in Lebrons shadow and in Lukes system

We have capspace to sign a mega star
We have 4 lottery level assets - Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and a lottery pick

I’d give them until end of July to show what they can do


Klutch was the reason we couldn’t get AD. Hopefully our FO stays arms length away from Rich Paul.

The Pels ownership was the reason we couldn't get AD.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:01 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Magic has gotten LeBron to LA
He should have Anthony Davis here too
Can’t fault him that the league is always lined up together to work against the Lakers- telling the Pelicans to not trade AD here.

The package the Lakers offered for AD will be available for other stars
He will land one via trade at some point

Let’s see what he does with capspace this summer

In 2 years he hasn’t made one cap destroying move. People hurt over Russell. A) Russell was gonna ask for a max this year. Bye bye cap. B) Ingram gives them another year. C) Russell wasn’t ever going to be the star he is in BRK in LAL especially in Lebrons shadow and in Lukes system

We have capspace to sign a mega star
We have 4 lottery level assets - Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and a lottery pick

I’d give them until end of July to show what they can do


Klutch was the reason we couldn’t get AD. Hopefully our FO stays arms length away from Rich Paul.

The Pels ownership was the reason we couldn't get AD.


Even if that's the case, it takes two to make a trade happen. You can't strong arm a trade or say we "should" have gotten AD.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Magic has gotten LeBron to LA
He should have Anthony Davis here too
Can’t fault him that the league is always lined up together to work against the Lakers- telling the Pelicans to not trade AD here.

The package the Lakers offered for AD will be available for other stars
He will land one via trade at some point

Let’s see what he does with capspace this summer

In 2 years he hasn’t made one cap destroying move. People hurt over Russell. A) Russell was gonna ask for a max this year. Bye bye cap. B) Ingram gives them another year. C) Russell wasn’t ever going to be the star he is in BRK in LAL especially in Lebrons shadow and in Lukes system

We have capspace to sign a mega star
We have 4 lottery level assets - Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and a lottery pick

I’d give them until end of July to show what they can do


Klutch was the reason we couldn’t get AD. Hopefully our FO stays arms length away from Rich Paul.

The Pels ownership was the reason we couldn't get AD.


Yes, only because Paul tried strong arming them.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
The Pels ownership was the reason we couldn't get AD.


But this was known prior to the demand. I had expected that Klutch had game planned this a lot better than they did; instead they half-assed it and it turned into a disaster.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject:

Quote:
10. Lakers should look into a player like Bojan Bogdanović this off season, but you’ll never hear that name coming from the Lakers or their fans.



This irritates me. Lakers fans are not stupid and the major outlets and so called experts keep insinuating the fan base are brainless sheep who are glued to their phones. Every Lakers fan has been (bleep) and moaning about the same crap they just listed. This isn't news to us.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

Laker_Town wrote:
Quote:
10. Lakers should look into a player like Bojan Bogdanović this off season, but you’ll never hear that name coming from the Lakers or their fans.



This irritates me. Lakers fans are not stupid and the major outlets and so called experts keep insinuating the fan base are brainless sheep who are glued to their phones. Every Lakers fan has been (bleep) and moaning about the same crap they just listed. This isn't news to us.


Many people assume that just because Magic and Jeanie are star/name obsessed that means all of us are. Definitely annoying.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
totally agree on operating like a small market team piece. Buss family is the only mom and pop shop left in NBA and it shows. they hang on to old employees way too long: in medical/training staff and other capacities of the team. feel entitled is also a Buss family trait, they're still stuck in the past glories that players will flock over to Lakers just because of the name brand. the Buss family has and will always living in the past.


It’s tough because all they have is their last name and their dad’s legacy. Jesse has shown to be a great scout and Jeanie got them the TV contract, but will they ever become champions without Dr. Buss?


It is a mess.
Dr. Buss was an executive. He had vision and could make big decisions. One of his best was Jerry West, a true basketball professional. (One of his worst was the rift with West)

Jeannie is a talented PR and business/branding pro. She has great talent in that sphere, but she is not an executive (one who is able to look objectively and weigh all options, and make the best decision for the entire organization). On the PR/branding side, yes, but the greater Laker organization/basketball side, not.

Jim was a disaster. Mitch was a pro in the basketball sense, just lacked inspiration/vision, which would have been OK if we still had Dr. Buss.
We need a true professional to sort out this mess.

Magic is not a professional executive. Super talented PR guy (likely why he and Jeannie get on so well), but his lack of professionalism is quite evident.
(What he said about Dr. Buss's wish was for he and Jennie to run things was really a horrible and classless thing to say ((even if it was true)). The way he disrespected DLO, Randle etc. Even his late night tampering act was evidence of a lack of self awareness.)

Look at the Clippers.
Ballmer is a professional executive. He ran Microsoft. Gates and Allen were smart enough (and humble enough) to realize that they needed a pro to run that ship. With the Clips, Ballmer was smart and humble enough to hire Frank ( a true basketball mind) and West to run things for him. That's what a great ecec does. Hires the right people and empowers them. He is still in control, just as Gates/Allen were with Microsoft, but the organization was being run and managed professionally.
The Lakers, sadly, are not.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject:

Quote:
2. Sports Science and Medical Science in 2019 is very important and there’s legitimate concern that the Lakers are not prepared to deal with these realities. Windhorst has heard this question come up many times.
This seems like a killer for getting any real FAs. To me this is the worst of the things he listed. Why would any player risk their career to come to us? I think the rest are bad.

This is like nail-in-the-coffin stuff. We are nowhere if true. I thought the UCLA partnership was supposed to be some major forward advancement in the Lakers use of modern medical science and sports science standards, and I thought they understood the need for overhaul of data analysis after the Jim Buss years.

From a 'what's best for my family' point of view, particularly with respect to medical science, what would a FA see as our status compared to other teams? Windhorst says this issue came up many times. It has been most of a decade not even being mediocre.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject:

focus wrote:
Quote:
2. Sports Science and Medical Science in 2019 is very important and there’s legitimate concern that the Lakers are not prepared to deal with these realities. Windhorst has heard this question come up many times.
This seems like a killer for getting any real FAs. To me this is the worst of the things he listed. Why would any player risk their career to come to us? I think the rest are bad.

This is like nail-in-the-coffin stuff. We are nowhere if true. I thought the UCLA partnership was supposed to be some major forward advancement in the Lakers use of modern medical science and sports science standards, and I thought they understood the need for overhaul of data analysis after the Jim Buss years.

From a 'what's best for my family' point of view, particularly with respect to medical science, what would a FA see as our status compared to other teams? Windhorst says this issue came up many times. It has been most of a decade not even being mediocre.


You mean like LeBron James?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject:

I think he's a bit wrong about the Lakers not "developing" Lonzo Ball well, if that's what he actually said. Frankly, making continuous improvements - individually and as a team around - with a guy who misses time so frequently and for so long is beyond the kell of purely a GM's responsibility. In a greater sense, Lonzo's body has failed to stand up to the game's rigor far more than the front office fell short in putting him in place to succeed.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:

Why do we suffer multiple injuries almost every year? Why are we so devistated by them that we can't make the playoffs as a result?

That's what an innovative FO would try to answer instead of saying we were just unlucky this season, let's try it again the same way next year.


Rondo has missed games on other teams. What magical thing would a non-"mom and pop" franchise do to protect the bone he broke in his dominant hand?
What about Lonzo's rolled ankle? Do other "innovative" teams have a special type of magical tape (to put on ankles) that our "poor" FO can't afford?
Oh, and please tell me about Ingram's blood clot. What would a non-Laker FO have done to predict his condition?

Your comment makes sense on a shallow level. But when you actually look into the injuries suffered. Your comment doesn't make sense.

Also, we suffered injuries when Mitch and Jim ran the FO too. When Vitti was in charge of the medical staff. We've had turnover. So can't really blame the current FO and medical staff, for past Lakers injuries that happened before they were there.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:

It’s tough because all they have is their last name and their dad’s legacy. Jesse has shown to be a great scout and Jeanie got them the TV contract, but will they ever become champions without Dr. Buss?



A lot of people are understandably stuck in what used to be, and they have the belief that the Lakers are entitled to be in the finals. I think Jeanie feels that way too. So does Magic. It's all about stars and quick fixes.

However, the rules of the NBA have changed dramatically. Being in Los Angeles, and having the Lakers brand are advantages, but they're not as big an advantage as they used to be.

Most teams in the NBA have never won a ring, or they go 40 years between rings like the Warriors. That is much more common than the Laker experience, and we might just be at the beginning of a long stretch of seeing how other franchises experience things. It wouldn't shock me if we don't win another ring in Jeannie's lifetime.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

It’s tough because all they have is their last name and their dad’s legacy. Jesse has shown to be a great scout and Jeanie got them the TV contract, but will they ever become champions without Dr. Buss?



A lot of people are understandably stuck in what used to be, and they have the belief that the Lakers are entitled to be in the finals. I think Jeanie feels that way too. So does Magic. It's all about stars and quick fixes.

However, the rules of the NBA have changed dramatically. Being in Los Angeles, and having the Lakers brand are advantages, but they're not as big an advantage as they used to be.

Most teams in the NBA have never won a ring, or they go 40 years between rings like the Warriors. That is much more common than the Laker experience, and we might just be at the beginning of a long stretch of seeing how other franchises experience things. It wouldn't shock me if we don't win another ring in Jeannie's lifetime.


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Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:

It’s tough because all they have is their last name and their dad’s legacy. Jesse has shown to be a great scout and Jeanie got them the TV contract, but will they ever become champions without Dr. Buss?



A lot of people are understandably stuck in what used to be, and they have the belief that the Lakers are entitled to be in the finals. I think Jeanie feels that way too. So does Magic. It's all about stars and quick fixes.

However, the rules of the NBA have changed dramatically. Being in Los Angeles, and having the Lakers brand are advantages, but they're not as big an advantage as they used to be.

Most teams in the NBA have never won a ring, or they go 40 years between rings like the Warriors. That is much more common than the Laker experience, and we might just be at the beginning of a long stretch of seeing how other franchises experience things. It wouldn't shock me if we don't win another ring in Jeannie's lifetime.


Ouch but true.

And as Lakers fans, we are used to watching championship parades.
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