Ramona Shelburne was on ESPN LA Radio today and I highlighted some key points below:
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Robster8989
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Randle thing is by far the ost upsetting. They could've matched the offer. I've been saying this since they made the horrible move.


What part of RANDLE ASKED THE LAKERS TO LET HIM GO confuses you?


If BI or any other young guy asks to be let go, should we let them go?

Or do we use the team controlled rights under RFA to help navigate the process better?


Exactly.
And it really went even deeper with Randle.
Remember Magic's famous "I want my players at 7% body fat" line?
What one player came into camp absolutely ripped and in shape?
One Julius Randle.
How was he rewarded by the organization?
He was benched, and all year made to feel like he was not in our plans.

When you see a pattern of bad decisions you have to ask, Is this just bad luck, or is this a pattern related to something (like ego, lack of wisdom, lack of humility etc)?
Sadly, I think we are seeing a pattern of really bad decisions related to ego and a lack of wisdom and humility.
Hard for me to admit, seriously.
I CELEBRATED when Magic was brought in to "save" the franchise.
He has one big signing in the "pros" column (LBJ)
But he has a long and growing list of "cons", and finding out long after the fact that he thought Micheael Beasley could give you what Julius Randle gave is just absolutely perplexing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject:

I will give credit to Maginka for getting LBJ. That's a big signing no matter what.

It's the subsequent set of moves I question. But to be fair, we have this summer still and they may (hopefully) salvage the situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:57 am    Post subject:

Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I will give credit to Maginka for getting LBJ. That's a big signing no matter what.

It's the subsequent set of moves I question. But to be fair, we have this summer still and they may (hopefully) salvage the situation.


Indeed, and you're absolutely right, this is still salvageable.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject:

Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Randle thing is by far the ost upsetting. They could've matched the offer. I've been saying this since they made the horrible move.


What part of RANDLE ASKED THE LAKERS TO LET HIM GO confuses you?


Not the part regarding why Randle asked out, that seems very confusing to you.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
kentu_tiro wrote:
So now who is Ramona's source? She's besties with Jeannie right?


It's Jeanie and magic, who r getting ready to fire Rob Pelinka

Momo's ( not the creepy bird lady) contact in ownership was and has always been Jim...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject:

It baffles me as well.

I'm not sure if the Lakers renounced his rights as a good faith "look at our class organization" type of deal? Or maybe they were being told that Paul George was a sure thing? I get that he wanted to leave because of Walton's antics like benching to "teach him a lesson" and everything. But we just straight up lost value and an asset for nothing.

Its like Cleveland where they just did rushed thing like trading Kyrie when Lebron told them not to and to wait, he could smooth it over. At worst Randle signs the qualifying offers and is just unrestricted after that right?

Yeah I didn't like that move at all.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return


They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject:

Quote:
They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


The whole point is that it was a "request."

Jules options were:

1. sign with Lakers
2. get another team to sign him as a RFA
3. take a QO, be an UFA in 2019
4. sit out.

I doubt Jules does #4 and would have taken #3 and been unhappy about it.

But you know what Jules did when he was unhappy about being benched for Nance at the beginning of 2017-18? He crushed it and we had to play him. I think he would have done the same, helping the team AND his 2019 FA value.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return


They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


There are many scenarios where an RFA signs offersheet and the original team matches
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return


They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


That's the point. They acquiesced to his request when they had no obligation to do so. It was a foolishly naive move by Maginka.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


The whole point is that it was a "request."

Jules options were:

1. sign with Lakers
2. get another team to sign him as a RFA
3. take a QO, be an UFA in 2019
4. sit out.

I doubt Jules does #4 and would have taken #3 and been unhappy about it.

But you know what Jules did when he was unhappy about being benched for Nance at the beginning of 2017-18? He crushed it and we had to play him. I think he would have done the same, helping the team AND his 2019 FA value.


By arguing these...I'm presenting to you what they hold as their values.

Magic and Pelinka were basketball players.

Maybe you think an unhappy player is more motivated but they certainly did not.

It's just a difference in opinion.

Personally, I would have gotten assets for Jules if there were any.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return


They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


That's the point. They acquiesced to his request when they had no obligation to do so. It was a foolishly naive move by Maginka.


They treated him like a person by granting him his freedom.


It was naive.

It was foolish.
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Last edited by Hero Ball on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


The whole point is that it was a "request."

Jules options were:

1. sign with Lakers
2. get another team to sign him as a RFA
3. take a QO, be an UFA in 2019
4. sit out.

I doubt Jules does #4 and would have taken #3 and been unhappy about it.

But you know what Jules did when he was unhappy about being benched for Nance at the beginning of 2017-18? He crushed it and we had to play him. I think he would have done the same, helping the team AND his 2019 FA value.


By arguing these...I'm presenting to you what they hold as their values.

Magic and Pelinka were basketball players.

Maybe you think an unhappy player is more motivated but they certainly did not.

It's just a difference in opinion.

Personally, I would have gotten assets for Jules if there were any.


But my point is they benched him for the start of 2017-18 for Nance when Jules came in the best shape. What did he do? He wrecked the competition and played well.

Likely he does the same for us. I hope they don't cave like this if BI or Lonzo asked to be released too.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


The whole point is that it was a "request."

Jules options were:

1. sign with Lakers
2. get another team to sign him as a RFA
3. take a QO, be an UFA in 2019
4. sit out.

I doubt Jules does #4 and would have taken #3 and been unhappy about it.

But you know what Jules did when he was unhappy about being benched for Nance at the beginning of 2017-18? He crushed it and we had to play him. I think he would have done the same, helping the team AND his 2019 FA value.


By arguing these...I'm presenting to you what they hold as their values.

Magic and Pelinka were basketball players.

Maybe you think an unhappy player is more motivated but they certainly did not.

It's just a difference in opinion.

Personally, I would have gotten assets for Jules if there were any.


But my point is they benched him for the start of 2017-18 for Nance when Jules came in the best shape. What did he do? He wrecked the competition and played well.

Likely he does the same for us. I hope they don't cave like this if BI or Lonzo asked to be released too.


Lonzo's camp already asked to be traded...still here rapping.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Robster8989 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Julius wore the "PAY ME" shirt.

FO didn't like it.


Fine, then use his RFA rights to match any offer he received then trade him for something if he wasn't in your plans.
Letting a #7 pick (who panned out no less) walk away for nothing was mismanagement of an important asset.


maybe there were no offers


Then you do a QO.

When we had Kuz playing backup "center" b/c we had no one else, would you have preferred Jules?


Loved Jules.

Are you sure he would have signed the QO?


As opposed to sitting out?


As opposed to be released, as what has happened.


You're not getting it. Randle could only be released if Magic and the Lakers allowed it. They should have never allowed it. Either match an offer he gets, offer him the QO, or he has to sit out the year. Don't ever let your RFA #7 pick, that's just starting to blossom, go for nothing in return


They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


That's the point. They acquiesced to his request when they had no obligation to do so. It was a foolishly naive move by Maginka.


They treated him like a person by granting him his freedom.


It was naive.

It was foolish
.


Ok looks like we're in agreement then.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

Robster8989 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Randle thing is by far the ost upsetting. They could've matched the offer. I've been saying this since they made the horrible move.


What part of RANDLE ASKED THE LAKERS TO LET HIM GO confuses you?


If BI or any other young guy asks to be let go, should we let them go?

Or do we use the team controlled rights under RFA to help navigate the process better?


Exactly.
And it really went even deeper with Randle.
Remember Magic's famous "I want my players at 7% body fat" line?
What one player came into camp absolutely ripped and in shape?
One Julius Randle.
How was he rewarded by the organization?
He was benched, and all year made to feel like he was not in our plans.

When you see a pattern of bad decisions you have to ask, Is this just bad luck, or is this a pattern related to something (like ego, lack of wisdom, lack of humility etc)?
Sadly, I think we are seeing a pattern of really bad decisions related to ego and a lack of wisdom and humility.
Hard for me to admit, seriously.
I CELEBRATED when Magic was brought in to "save" the franchise.
He has one big signing in the "pros" column (LBJ)
But he has a long and growing list of "cons", and finding out long after the fact that he thought Micheael Beasley could give you what Julius Randle gave is just absolutely perplexing.


Great post. Spot on. I was happy when we got Magic as well if only to wash away the malaise that was infecting the organization. It's been a brief honeymoon and at this point, the dysfunction appears to be even worse. There's one common denominator throughout it all and she sits at the top. We're truly becoming the Knicks West.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
They offered him the QO and then rescinded it due to Jules request.

They could have taken him hostage but it's not in their mettle.

Your turn.


The whole point is that it was a "request."

Jules options were:

1. sign with Lakers
2. get another team to sign him as a RFA
3. take a QO, be an UFA in 2019
4. sit out.

I doubt Jules does #4 and would have taken #3 and been unhappy about it.

But you know what Jules did when he was unhappy about being benched for Nance at the beginning of 2017-18? He crushed it and we had to play him. I think he would have done the same, helping the team AND his 2019 FA value.


By arguing these...I'm presenting to you what they hold as their values.

Magic and Pelinka were basketball players.

Maybe you think an unhappy player is more motivated but they certainly did not.

It's just a difference in opinion.

Personally, I would have gotten assets for Jules if there were any.


But my point is they benched him for the start of 2017-18 for Nance when Jules came in the best shape. What did he do? He wrecked the competition and played well.

Likely he does the same for us. I hope they don't cave like this if BI or Lonzo asked to be released too.



I don't think they caved in to JR's demand necessarily. I just they they are simply rookies at the helm who did not appreciate, or understand proper asset management. This culminated with their anxiousness to put their on finger print on THEIR team. They carelessly moved quickly. They had a harebrained idea to sign a group of rag-tag free agents and they just couldn't wait to get to it.

When they have an idea, they go for it without deep analysis, and Ivica Zubac proved this tendency hasn't gone away.
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