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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: Why do Shooters Die in a Laker uniform? |
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My personal theory is simple.
Shooting for good to great shooter is mental . they have shot more than enough practice shots to make the wide open 3 during a game. the ball is the same, the rims are the same height, the court is the same size. The only thing thats difference when you get a pass for a wide open 3 during a game is that there is a large crowd and you know people are watching on TV.
So that means its mental. Guys keep coming tour team and then turning into brick layers. Being a laker has the most scrutiny out of any franchise in the nba. Granted you can have more fans than any other nba team if you do well. so it goes both ways. super high, and super low. These guys get too high on themselves when they are hitting therefore when they're not they get to low on themselves. You have to be very close to even keel as a los angeles laker. |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8879
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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sure seems that way doesn't it. from George McCloud, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond to KCP and Muscala, seems like shooters always under performed once they put on a Laker jersey. i don't know why, but it is a trend. good post OP. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Because we dont have a shooting coach _________________ Kobe |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8879
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Because we dont have a shooting coach |
really? the names mentioned were already got their reputation as good shooters, but they all regressed once joined the Lakers, almost like they forgot how to shoot all of sudden. |
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tony Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2010 Posts: 1274
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pressure, more attention, and more criticism when you do have bad games. Every "3-pt shooter" we have ever signed or traded completely (bleep) the bed. Then they go somewhere else and find the touch again lmfao |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Chronicle wrote: | Because we dont have a shooting coach |
really? the names mentioned were already got their reputation as good shooters, but they all regressed once joined the Lakers, almost like they forgot how to shoot all of sudden. |
Suffering from high pressure and expectations and losing focus, isn't that exactly what a coach is for? To coach you through it? _________________ Kobe |
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tony Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2010 Posts: 1274
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hoping Bullock finishes out the season strong. He gets so many open corner 3s and keeps shooting them short which is pissing me tf off.
Don't even get me started on (bleep) Muscala |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22852 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think given enough time, they just go to their averages. So I'm looking forward to the day Muscala can hit 34% from threes again. Still SMH about that trade.
Also, these are small sample sizes now. But that's the thing about managing a team or being a fan of a team, you will see your guy nightly, and you will see all the pimples and warts in his game, and you will be wondering if grass is greener elsewhere. As a fan, I always do that, but I'm thankful that front offices usually don't act like fans. But it made no sense to trade Ivica for a 34% three pt shooter, and the game log shows that Muscala's last good game was against us. So it's scary that our front office are acting like fans. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | sure seems that way doesn't it. from George McCloud, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond to KCP and Muscala, seems like shooters always under performed once they put on a Laker jersey. i don't know why, but it is a trend. good post OP. |
I think that's more a perception than the truth. Look at the guys you mention;
-- KCP has actually shot much better as a Laker than he did as a Piston.
-- McCloud set his career-high 3-point shooting percentage in his one year with us.
-- Rice shot 38.6% from three-point land for us, which wasn't far off from his career average of 40.0%.
-- Richmond joined us in the last year of his career, after he was already in steep decline.
-- Muscala has only played 9 games and 76 minutes so it's too soon to judge him.
But we traded or signed lots of guys who shot well for us: Steve Nash and Vladimir Radmanovic, for instance, are 1-2 among all Lakers in 3-point percentage. Steve Blake, Jodie Meeks, Jamaal Wilkes, Lou Hudson -- lots of guys we acquired shot well for us. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12182 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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The worst best shooter we signed was Jason Kapono, but he barely played to AV's point |
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loslakersss Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 11853 Location: LA
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this thread had to do with criminal activity |
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4112 Location: Space City
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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I remember when Terry Teagle came here and underperformed. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22852 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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loslakersss wrote: | I thought this thread had to do with criminal activity |
LOL! You got me picturing thugs and gang bangers getting shot while wearing Laker jerseys. |
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4112 Location: Space City
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rice really dipped. he shot 42% 47% and 43% in his 3 years before coming here. The 40 career included worse shooting on the back end of his career. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12182 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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hydrohead wrote: | Rice really dipped. he shot 42% 47% and 43% in his 3 years before coming here. The 40 career included worse shooting on the back end of his career. |
And then shot .393 and .367. Shot .351 and then .418 in teh playoffs (latter in our championship run). Yes, he underperformed, but those are not bad umbers at all and he completely changed his game and the way he got his shots - you almost have to expect a dip |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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I get what you're trying to say PnP, but I've had enough talk about shooting and death for one day. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Mamba Mentality Star Player
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3078 Location: The Left Coast
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | loslakersss wrote: | I thought this thread had to do with criminal activity |
LOL! You got me picturing thugs and gang bangers getting shot while wearing Laker jerseys. | _________________ “You can't be held captive by the fear of failure or the fear of what people may say.” - Kobe Bryant |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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They step up shooting during the playoffs.
2001 for a lot of role players was absolute fire.
2000 from what I recall was above average too. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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mrdectown Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 1144
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | sure seems that way doesn't it. from George McCloud, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond to KCP and Muscala, seems like shooters always under performed once they put on a Laker jersey. i don't know why, but it is a trend. good post OP. |
I think that's more a perception than the truth. Look at the guys you mention;
-- KCP has actually shot much better as a Laker than he did as a Piston.
-- McCloud set his career-high 3-point shooting percentage in his one year with us.
-- Rice shot 38.6% from three-point land for us, which wasn't far off from his career average of 40.0%.
-- Richmond joined us in the last year of his career, after he was already in steep decline.
-- Muscala has only played 9 games and 76 minutes so it's too soon to judge him.
But we traded or signed lots of guys who shot well for us: Steve Nash and Vladimir Radmanovic, for instance, are 1-2 among all Lakers in 3-point percentage. Steve Blake, Jodie Meeks, Jamaal Wilkes, Lou Hudson -- lots of guys we acquired shot well for us. |
Ahh yes Space Cadet. Those were the days lol _________________ I guess i'm not a business suit wearin guy like you,I'm a gangsta i suppose. Avon Barksdale |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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hydrohead wrote: | Rice really dipped. he shot 42% 47% and 43% in his 3 years before coming here. The 40 career included worse shooting on the back end of his career. |
You're missing something.
The 42% and 47% years were when the NBA moved the 3-point line in and shooting percentages shot up dramatically. By the time he came to the Lakers, the line was moved back to its current position, and the inflated averages came back down.
Once you take the three short-line years out of the equation, his career average from 3-point land drops to about 37%.
Also, Rice didn't really have bad shooting at the end of his career. The last two full years of his career he shot 39% from 3-point land. He did have two injury shortened years at the end of his career, but he shot so few 3-pointers in those two years that they had minimal impact on his career averages.
When you look at everything in total, I'd say his shooting for us was pretty typical for his overall career. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23912
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Its the grass always being greener on the other side effect. |
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Mamba Mentality Star Player
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3078 Location: The Left Coast
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | hydrohead wrote: | Rice really dipped. he shot 42% 47% and 43% in his 3 years before coming here. The 40 career included worse shooting on the back end of his career. |
You're missing something.
The 42% and 47% years were when the NBA moved the 3-point line in and shooting percentages shot up dramatically. By the time he came to the Lakers, the line was moved back to its current position, and the inflated averages came back down.
Once you take the three short-line years out of the equation, his career average from 3-point land drops to about 37%.
Also, Rice didn't really have bad shooting at the end of his career. The last two full years of his career he shot 39% from 3-point land. He did have two injury shortened years at the end of his career, but he shot so few 3-pointers in those two years that they had minimal impact on his career averages.
When you look at everything in total, I'd say his shooting for us was pretty typical for his overall career. |
Context matters. _________________ “You can't be held captive by the fear of failure or the fear of what people may say.” - Kobe Bryant |
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Bol Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 4045
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think the real issue is that a player is expected to be a good player overall as a Laker, and win games. You can't just be chucking in shots for a losing team like a lot of guys do. Chucky Atkins comes to mind as an example. He actually was a pretty good shooter, but an awful player and everyone hated him. That's why the idea of getting "shooters" is misguided, I think. You don't really win at the highest level with guys who are just shooters, you win with guys who are good shooters and good players. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | hydrohead wrote: | Rice really dipped. he shot 42% 47% and 43% in his 3 years before coming here. The 40 career included worse shooting on the back end of his career. |
And then shot .393 and .367. Shot .351 and then .418 in teh playoffs (latter in our championship run). Yes, he underperformed, but those are not bad umbers at all and he completely changed his game and the way he got his shots - you almost have to expect a dip |
Wrist surgery on the shooting hand prior to being a Laker.
That dude never got enough touches. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Bol wrote: | I think the real issue is that a player is expected to be a good player overall as a Laker, and win games. You can't just be chucking in shots for a losing team like a lot of guys do. Chucky Atkins comes to mind as an example. He actually was a pretty good shooter, but an awful player and everyone hated him. That's why the idea of getting "shooters" is misguided, I think. You don't really win at the highest level with guys who are just shooters, you win with guys who are good shooters and good players. |
Chucky was an NBA journeyman, who played more games as a backup than a starter in his career. Overall, he was an average shooter for a point guard. His one year with us was actually the best in his career. He was really just a stopgap during our rebuilding period. The kind of guy who was constantly thrown in as an afterthought in multi-player trades. |
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