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kobeandgary
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
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 Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
I think this would more so apply to perimeter players. |
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LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
Yup, no perimeter players. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Still a guest. You gotta earn your stripes with us.
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quartzcharm
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Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 551
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| #savethekids wrote: | Brons a frontrunner and a quitter when he doesnt get his way.
You cant teach or coach that.
He is who he is.
Lakers have to take their team back from KLUTCH, FRONTRUN, or it will get worse. |
Agreed. He's making 150 million dollars. His lazy *** should be bringing it every game. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt. |
The eye-opener to me was when he couldn't get past a 40 yr old Vince Carter, even before his groin injury. The explosiveness he showed in that last Finals with Cleveland is never coming back unfortunately. |
Or any back up center in the league, right now.
Like, I get it. 16 years in the league and a billion Finals appearances. His body needs rest. I'd rather limit him to 15-20 minutes a game, not the 30 he's getting now. 30 minutes isn't that far from most starters that float around 34mpg anyway. |
MIke, they can't.
This is something we rarely speak about.
When you're the KING, whether thats bron, or kobe or those in that class. You can't miss games or play 20 mins at the end of a bad year when he's already missed so many games. he's almost obligated to play out the season doing his 30 mins per thing. He owes it to every dad, mom, boyfriend or girlfriend who bought their son(s), daughter(s), boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband,brother(s), sister(s), friend/co-worker tickets to see lebron james.
Lastly, its that spectrum contract. he has to play. and he has to play enough mins to make it worth their while.
i would love to shut him down for the season. there is no reason to play 15 to 20 mins when you're him. just dont play, call it a season its a wrap. but they can't. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
Yup, no perimeter players. |
There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.
MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.
Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.
The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| la4win wrote: | | Lesson learned from Kobe, father time is undefeated. Let’s hope he will get us one big name to sign for giving him all those years in his contract. At least with Kobe, it was easy to accept his decline years with big contract for many years of excellence and chips he got us. |
Kobe didn't really have an age-related decline. He was still playing at an MVP level at age 34 but then had, for all intent and purposes, a career-ending injury. The odd thing is the Lakers gave him an extension before he even came back from his surgery so we had to suffered through a couple of seasons where he could barely play. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt. |
It was happening for a few weeks before he blew out his groin. In December, James was starting to regain his playing shape and explosiveness. Post Groin injury he's been way less explosive |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29280
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt. |
The eye-opener to me was when he couldn't get past a 40 yr old Vince Carter, even before his groin injury. The explosiveness he showed in that last Finals with Cleveland is never coming back unfortunately. |
Or any back up center in the league, right now.
Like, I get it. 16 years in the league and a billion Finals appearances. His body needs rest. I'd rather limit him to 15-20 minutes a game, not the 30 he's getting now. 30 minutes isn't that far from most starters that float around 34mpg anyway. |
I think he wants to catch Kareem on the alltime scoring list. And if he wants to do that THIS contract. He needs those minutes to get those all-time stats.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt. |
The eye-opener to me was when he couldn't get past a 40 yr old Vince Carter, even before his groin injury. The explosiveness he showed in that last Finals with Cleveland is never coming back unfortunately. |
Or any back up center in the league, right now.
Like, I get it. 16 years in the league and a billion Finals appearances. His body needs rest. I'd rather limit him to 15-20 minutes a game, not the 30 he's getting now. 30 minutes isn't that far from most starters that float around 34mpg anyway. |
I think he wants to catch Kareem on the alltime scoring list. And if he wants to do that THIS contract. He needs those minutes to get those all-time stats. |
That might be a factor. It could also be that he simply doesn't want to sit. This is a guy who has been among the league leaders in minutes played virtually every year of his career, so I can understand why he doesn't want to sit on the bench and watch the game.
I'm not sure that playing 30 minutes a game vs. 20 for the last 12 games is going to have any impact on him going forward. The incremental difference is fairly negligible. And of course there's the consideration that fans do pay a lot of money to watch him play. |
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Hammett
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 9380
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Lebron taking a rest from the playoffs for one season might be a blessing in disguise. He played in 8 straight NBA finals, his body needed a break.
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LakersFanESS
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Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 789
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Say what you will about Lebron, he is still one of the strongest players in the NBA that can handle and pass like an elite point guard. I don't care how much he has lost, his skill set is not something that is easy to find. He needed to be humbled after 8 straight finals and that is definitely what happened.
Lebron is a front-runner, always has been, so we need to get out in front next year. If everyone starts to believe, this team can go places... |
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8327
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've never been a Lebron fan, but even with a little less explosiveness than last year, he's still putting up his usual sexy numbers since coming back from his injury. That gives me hope that he'll still be either the best in the game or close to it next year. Despite his bad leadership and diva tendencies, I'm against trading him.
He may not need a number 1 option type superstar next to him next year, but as AQuestSupreme said, that superstar does need to be a great closer.
Today's loss was a reminder that Lebron isn't, never has and never will be a great closer or clutch player.
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21458
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | Good post.
I will say this.....Lebron doesn't go down with an injury, we are in the playoffs.
If Lebron, Rondo, Lonzo, McGee, Kuz and Ingram all don't go down missing tons of games, we are in the playoffs.
If this roster stayed the same, less injuries, we make the playoffs.
Improve this roster, get shooters, change the coach and assistants, everyone healthy and focused, it will be a different team next year.
We won't be like this next season....guaranteed.
As far as Lebron, as much as some people here think he isn't great, he really is great but can't do it every single night. He needs help. Get him help, keep some of the young core, better coach - winning formula. |
We have a losing record in games where LeBron plays and no team with a losing record will make the playoffs in the west. |
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Laker_Jocker
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Never liked his game....A guy who can play basketball really well but really isn’t a basketball player. Every time he fails, all I can remember is how Kobe had to save him in the olympics... smh... |
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ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Whose enthusiasm wouldn't run out when you look around you and your teammates, management, and coach suck |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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How many times could you handle KCP and Luke
Lukes rotations
Kobe, if in the same situation, would have killed Luke Walton.. I have ZERO doubt |
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MustardJam
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Joined: 13 Feb 2019
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I also had a change of heart on Lebron. Except it's the other way around.
I was never the biggest fan of his before the Lakers. Always felt like he had huge flaws that the media would ignore because he is Lebron. That being said, I welcomed him with open arms. Thought he could help the guys develop and also help this team become relevant again.
Yet here we are and all those glaring flaws are beyond obvious. Doesn't actually make most teammates better despite the narrative shoved down everyone's throat, creates a toxic environment, coach killer, bleeds the team of assets, only tries when he wants to, and etc.
I'm ALL open to Lebron. However, I can't deal with this (bleep). He's part of the reason this team has become the most unlikeable Lakers team in my life of watching them. The FO is also a HUGE part of it but it's not a coincidence that the year Lebron shows up this team goes to (bleep). |
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Vin
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt. |
That's playoffs Lebron. He was looking old at times during the season last year too. I had Cavs fan saying he was looking old and coudn't blow by anyone anymore last year. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| MustardJam wrote: | I also had a change of heart on Lebron. Except it's the other way around.
I was never the biggest fan of his before the Lakers. Always felt like he had huge flaws that the media would ignore because he is Lebron. That being said, I welcomed him with open arms. Thought he could help the guys develop and also help this team become relevant again.
Yet here we are and all those glaring flaws are beyond obvious. Doesn't actually make most teammates better despite the narrative shoved down everyone's throat, creates a toxic environment, coach killer, bleeds the team of assets, only tries when he wants to, and etc.
I'm ALL open to Lebron. However, I can't deal with this (bleep). He's part of the reason this team has become the most unlikeable Lakers team in my life of watching them. The FO is also a HUGE part of it but it's not a coincidence that the year Lebron shows up this team goes to (bleep). |
Realistically this team went to (bleep) five or six years ago.  |
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MustardJam
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Joined: 13 Feb 2019
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | MustardJam wrote: | I also had a change of heart on Lebron. Except it's the other way around.
I was never the biggest fan of his before the Lakers. Always felt like he had huge flaws that the media would ignore because he is Lebron. That being said, I welcomed him with open arms. Thought he could help the guys develop and also help this team become relevant again.
Yet here we are and all those glaring flaws are beyond obvious. Doesn't actually make most teammates better despite the narrative shoved down everyone's throat, creates a toxic environment, coach killer, bleeds the team of assets, only tries when he wants to, and etc.
I'm ALL open to Lebron. However, I can't deal with this (bleep). He's part of the reason this team has become the most unlikeable Lakers team in my life of watching them. The FO is also a HUGE part of it but it's not a coincidence that the year Lebron shows up this team goes to (bleep). |
Realistically this team went to (bleep) five or six years ago. |
This is true. However, I still enjoyed watching them. Lonzo was fun to watch as was Ingram despite them taking longer than expected to emerge. However, this year has sucked. I've never been so disinterested. |
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Lebron can be an all star until he's 40. I was convinced when I started reading about the measures he takes to keep him self in shape and recover in and out of the season. Dude has around the clock people managing his nutrition, cardio, sleep etc.. it's wild. |
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kobeandgary
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
Yup, no perimeter players. |
There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.
MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.
Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.
The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player. |
There is a big difference between being a superstar at 36 and an all star at 36. You get handed an all star spot just for being popular, but is that the guy you want to build your franchise around? |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| kobeandgary wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
Yup, no perimeter players. |
There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.
MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.
Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.
The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player. |
There is a big difference between being a superstar at 36 and an all star at 36. You get handed an all star spot just for being popular, but is that the guy you want to build your franchise around? |
I don't want to get into a debate over terminology, so I'll leave it at this: There have been Hall of Famers, at every position, who have remained highly productive to their late 30s, so you can't assume any player is going to fall off the cliff at any particular age,. |
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MustardJam
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Posts: 226
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline? |
Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind. |
Yup, no perimeter players. |
There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.
MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.
Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.
The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player. |
There is a big difference between being a superstar at 36 and an all star at 36. You get handed an all star spot just for being popular, but is that the guy you want to build your franchise around? |
I don't want to get into a debate over terminology, so I'll leave it at this: There have been Hall of Famers, at every position, who have remained highly productive to their late 30s, so you can't assume any player is going to fall off the cliff at any particular age,. |
I have no doubt Lebron can be productive for at least 3-5 more years. However, I doubt he can be the first option on a championship team anymore. He needs a legitimate closer that can take over the game. The problem is, those players don't want to play with him it seems like. Anthony Davis won't get it done. He's great but he simply isn't that guy. He needs the exact kind of star Lebron needs (a guy who can get his own shot from anywhere and be the go-to guy in the clutch). |
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