My Change Of Heart On Lebron
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject:

MustardJam wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline?



Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind.


Yup, no perimeter players.


There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.

MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.

Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.

The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player.


There is a big difference between being a superstar at 36 and an all star at 36. You get handed an all star spot just for being popular, but is that the guy you want to build your franchise around?


I don't want to get into a debate over terminology, so I'll leave it at this: There have been Hall of Famers, at every position, who have remained highly productive to their late 30s, so you can't assume any player is going to fall off the cliff at any particular age,.


I have no doubt Lebron can be productive for at least 3-5 more years. However, I doubt he can be the first option on a championship team anymore. He needs a legitimate closer that can take over the game. The problem is, those players don't want to play with him it seems like. Anthony Davis won't get it done. He's great but he simply isn't that guy. He needs the exact kind of star Lebron needs (a guy who can get his own shot from anywhere and be the go-to guy in the clutch).


He has always needed that guy imo, even in his prime years. His end of game "Closer" stats are extremely overrated by some people. He never was consistently a killer at the end of games like a Kobe or Jordan.. It's why Paul George would have been a perfect compliment or if we can somehow get Durant or Leonard. Then you allow Lebron to do everything else and like you said he can be productive easily for another 3-5 years if the injuries dont start piling up. Once his current contract is up he will def. not be worth anywhere remotely close to max anymore but I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign cheap somewhere to play with his son for a year or two and then retire.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:

I wish I could say that I think LeBron is buying into a future of giving full effort in training and on-court throughout a season. His mentality has been to coast periodically throughout his career, relaying on the ability to hit the switch and reach near full capacity to dominate at will. He's also probably more engaged in off court involvements (side businesses) than ever. I figure it's very possible (and is it likely - ouch ?) we have already seen his best work in our colors.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject:

MustardJam wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline?



Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind.


Yup, no perimeter players.


There are perimeter players who played well into their late 30s.

MJ won an MVP and showed no signs of slowing down but retired at age 34.

Jason Kidd was an all-star at 36. Steve Nash and John Stockton were all-stars at 37.

The point is there is no standard. Some guys fall off the cliff in their early 30s, some guys play well into their late 30s. There isn't any way to predict the progression of a specific player.


There is a big difference between being a superstar at 36 and an all star at 36. You get handed an all star spot just for being popular, but is that the guy you want to build your franchise around?


I don't want to get into a debate over terminology, so I'll leave it at this: There have been Hall of Famers, at every position, who have remained highly productive to their late 30s, so you can't assume any player is going to fall off the cliff at any particular age,.


I have no doubt Lebron can be productive for at least 3-5 more years. However, I doubt he can be the first option on a championship team anymore. He needs a legitimate closer that can take over the game. The problem is, those players don't want to play with him it seems like. Anthony Davis won't get it done. He's great but he simply isn't that guy. He needs the exact kind of star Lebron needs (a guy who can get his own shot from anywhere and be the go-to guy in the clutch).


I have no trouble imagining Lebron as the top guy on a championship team myself, though of course like any super star he'll need a bunch of talent around him and players that fit well together.

The question now is whether Magic can actually pull off his free agent plan and whether the young guys show more progress and health than they did this year. We can all guess about that, and toss out our opinions about Lebron, but it's just passing time until next season when we see what actually happens.

Personally, I'm just hoping the young guys do improve, we do land a top free agent, and we do contend, and I don't particularly care how different people will want to apportion credit/blame for whatever happens.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject:

I had a change of heart too. I went from I hate him to alright he's a Laker so I'll give him a chance to now I really really hate him.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
I had a change of heart too. I went from I hate him to alright he's a Laker so I'll give him a chance to now I really really hate him.



I hear you . I think he understands that people only care about winners and LA only cares about championships. It is easy to hear about that but it is different to live it. His relevance revolves around his ability to affect winning so he needs to come in next year with a purpose. Either that or he will be run out of town..
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
lakerfanaticPT wrote:
Also have noticed a much slower LeBron. Next couple of years might be a bit rough if nobody else joins us:((


Nope, I think what Lebron does this summer is hits the gym daily and drops some weight. He looks thick right now. I bet he drops 20 pounds. That would be amazing for him and would help with quickness.


Even if he does that, hell still be 35. Age is going to take its toll. Period.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
When you fall off a cliff, it goes quick. How many superstars have a gradual decline?



Some do -- Kareem, Duncan, Karl Malone come to mind.


Those guys gradually declined because they stayed within a system and familiar teammates. Even then, they did suffer big dropoffs towards the end and injuries did come.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
How many times could you handle KCP and Luke

Lukes rotations

Kobe, if in the same situation, would have killed Luke Walton.. I have ZERO doubt


Then he should have killed Luke... his passive aggressive fake BS is the problem
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:33 am    Post subject:

diando wrote:
RealSkipBayless wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately Lebron is a net negative for this team. Free agent deterrent that makes star players want to stay away. Terrible leader. Pretty much ruined what we were building with his boy Rich Paul. Is only interested in offensive numbers to chase ATG standings. He isn't helping and has just made things worse with his arrival.

Here is what is going to happen this summer and we all know its true. We get no big names. We will be forced to trade all our pieces for a star because no star will come here willingly due to Lebron. We will make one WCF in two years and afterwards it will be same as the CLE and Mia. We will be left with absolutely nothing but one star and a capped out roster filled with ancient, overpaid vets.

+1
Except that I don't believe we're even making the Western Conference Finals.


Same. Everything will happen except for the WCF finals. We won't even get that far.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:31 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
You know, the most frustrating part is watching LeBron blow by defenders in the Finals just last year, and that's almost never happened this season in the halfcourt.


Settling for jumpers when in the past he'd blow past people and get to the basket.

I kind of saw that as a bad sign when he was doing that at the start of the season. But a lot blew it off as him getting into playoff form etc etc.

But it's kept on throughout. He got blocked by Mario Hezonja trying to go to the basket against the Knicks.

Thinking that LeBron "slowing down" is gonna be at its worst here. In the east he could put up stats and play no defense and thats all people talked about (his stats), here in the West, its just empty numbers for him, cause he does nothing on either end, and he's not been the best leader to galvanize our team, nor has his hustle been consistent.

So again, he will get the numbers cause he can sleepwalk to 25/7/6 but at the same time... watching "how" and what he doesn't do on the other end, says a lot more.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
lakerfanaticPT wrote:
Also have noticed a much slower LeBron. Next couple of years might be a bit rough if nobody else joins us:((


Nope, I think what Lebron does this summer is hits the gym daily and drops some weight. He looks thick right now. I bet he drops 20 pounds. That would be amazing for him and would help with quickness.



He already tried that before. Looked terrible till he took a trip to Miami and a few weeks off.

Age.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject:

I went from "I'll support Bron because he is a Laker and I'll forget any issues I had with him" to "LeBron just reconfirmed everything I accused him of being."

We'll see. To be continued.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
I went from "I'll support Bron because he is a Laker and I'll forget any issues I had with him" to "LeBron just reconfirmed everything I accused him of being."

We'll see. To be continued.


Me x1000
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.

I agree
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.




LeBron hasn't had any reliable shooters, so teams are packing the paint and the help is a full step closer to the driving lanes whenever LeBron has the ball. It's laughable the national media can't see DAJ waiting in the lane and forcing LeBron to shoot over Hezonja, who was told to sit on LeBrons right hand and let him go any way but right (where he would have a better angle to challenge DAJ).

Mario even said after the game that anyone who thinks he's the reason LeBron was stopped on that play is a fool. Some people still think back to when help defense was basically illegal and zones were not allowed, even when breaking down today's games. He had shooters in Cleveland, not like here where he is our best shooter.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.




LeBron hasn't had any reliable shooters, so teams are packing the paint and the help is a full step closer to the driving lanes whenever LeBron has the ball. It's laughable the national media can't see DAJ waiting in the lane and forcing LeBron to shoot over Hezonja, who was told to sit on LeBrons right hand and let him go any way but right (where he would have a better angle to challenge DAJ).

Mario even said after the game that anyone who thinks he's the reason LeBron was stopped on that play is a fool. Some people still think back to when help defense was basically illegal and zones were not allowed, even when breaking down today's games. He had shooters in Cleveland, not like here where he is our best shooter.


The thing is Lebron didn't get past Mario, which isn't really a good sign. Had he gotten past Mario he could have created contact with Jordan and got a foul or and 1. Because Lebron couldn't get past Mario he ended up throwing up an awful shot, and he had a full shot clock to set up that shot... Just horrible.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject:

PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.



This season was always meant to be a placeholder, so I'm not sold that anything that happened this year will have a significant impact on the future. The big disappointment to me was the lack of development of the young players. However, everything still depends on Magic executing his plan.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject:

kobeandgary wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.




LeBron hasn't had any reliable shooters, so teams are packing the paint and the help is a full step closer to the driving lanes whenever LeBron has the ball. It's laughable the national media can't see DAJ waiting in the lane and forcing LeBron to shoot over Hezonja, who was told to sit on LeBrons right hand and let him go any way but right (where he would have a better angle to challenge DAJ).

Mario even said after the game that anyone who thinks he's the reason LeBron was stopped on that play is a fool. Some people still think back to when help defense was basically illegal and zones were not allowed, even when breaking down today's games. He had shooters in Cleveland, not like here where he is our best shooter.


The thing is Lebron didn't get last Mario, which isn't really a good sign. He could have gotten past Mario he could have created contact with Jordan and got a foul or and 1. Because Lebron couldn't get past Mario he ended up throwing up an awful shot, and he had a full shot clock to set up that shot... Just horrible.


DAJ waiting near the rim will usually get the no-call on the verticality rule, with LeBron being funnelled to his left towards the baseline it makes things very easy on DeAndre. Even superstars rarely draw a whistle when going directly into traffic, and LeBron is in that position this year even more than in 2010 & 2014.

On any decent shooting team, LeBron passes against that defensive look. This might be the worst-shooting team he's played on since last missing the playoffs in 2005.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
So long as he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the #1 to the Lakers. He is no longer the #1.

He should also consider playing the 5 full-time so that he can maximize his tenure here. He can still play point center but on defense he needs to be matching up against the slower bigs.

We will find out this summer how serious he is about that 4th chip. If he isn’t willing to sacrifice, it’s time to trade him. He can film Space Jam 2 and his other shows on his off days while playing in another NBA city.


Giannis is the MVP of the league this year in my mind, but LeBron is having a fantastic season statistically, other than the missed games and unfortunately, lack of wins.

I don't know how he has to shoulder the blame for this debacle.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
So long as he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the #1 to the Lakers. He is no longer the #1.

He should also consider playing the 5 full-time so that he can maximize his tenure here. He can still play point center but on defense he needs to be matching up against the slower bigs.

We will find out this summer how serious he is about that 4th chip. If he isn’t willing to sacrifice, it’s time to trade him. He can film Space Jam 2 and his other shows on his off days while playing in another NBA city.


Giannis is the MVP of the league this year in my mind, but LeBron is having a fantastic season statistically, other than the missed games and unfortunately, lack of wins.

I don't know how he has to shoulder the blame for this debacle.


He isn’t blame less but at the same time yeah I agree with you.

The reason to trade him would be because no max FA came, timeline just doesn’t work.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.




LeBron hasn't had any reliable shooters, so teams are packing the paint and the help is a full step closer to the driving lanes whenever LeBron has the ball. It's laughable the national media can't see DAJ waiting in the lane and forcing LeBron to shoot over Hezonja, who was told to sit on LeBrons right hand and let him go any way but right (where he would have a better angle to challenge DAJ).

Mario even said after the game that anyone who thinks he's the reason LeBron was stopped on that play is a fool. Some people still think back to when help defense was basically illegal and zones were not allowed, even when breaking down today's games. He had shooters in Cleveland, not like here where he is our best shooter.


The thing is Lebron didn't get last Mario, which isn't really a good sign. He could have gotten past Mario he could have created contact with Jordan and got a foul or and 1. Because Lebron couldn't get past Mario he ended up throwing up an awful shot, and he had a full shot clock to set up that shot... Just horrible.


DAJ waiting near the rim will usually get the no-call on the verticality rule, with LeBron being funnelled to his left towards the baseline it makes things very easy on DeAndre. Even superstars rarely draw a whistle when going directly into traffic, and LeBron is in that position this year even more than in 2010 & 2014.

On any decent shooting team, LeBron passes against that defensive look. This might be the worst-shooting team he's played on since last missing the playoffs in 2005.


Maybe I'm crazy but I'm 99% sure earlier in the game Lebron drove the ball right into Jordan's chest and got the whistle and received foul shots... So I'm not sure why he wouldn't have received the call again.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
So long as he is willing to do whatever it takes to get the #1 to the Lakers. He is no longer the #1.

He should also consider playing the 5 full-time so that he can maximize his tenure here. He can still play point center but on defense he needs to be matching up against the slower bigs.

We will find out this summer how serious he is about that 4th chip. If he isn’t willing to sacrifice, it’s time to trade him. He can film Space Jam 2 and his other shows on his off days while playing in another NBA city.


Giannis is the MVP of the league this year in my mind, but LeBron is having a fantastic season statistically, other than the missed games and unfortunately, lack of wins.

I don't know how he has to shoulder the blame for this debacle.


Mainly because of all the collapses we (he) has had in the 4th quarter, especially at the foul line. We could keep games close enough last year, Lebron was supposed to put those close losses over the hump and turn them into wins... He simply didn't deliver on that nearly enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:34 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
PinoyLBJFan wrote:
Lebron and the lakers will be back with a BANG next season. I strongly believe. The injuries, and the trade saga destroys the team. Next season perhaps with a new coach and some shooters additions + (with) the current young core , the Lakers will take that championship ring. Lebron still has it.



This season was always meant to be a placeholder, so I'm not sold that anything that happened this year will have a significant impact on the future. The big disappointment to me was the lack of development of the young players. However, everything still depends on Magic executing his plan.

Not sure how you saw a lack of development in our young players. Kuzma averaged less than 15 points a game in November, then averaged about 20 a game in December, January and February, and although he's in a slump now, he has time to bust out of it and finish the season strong.

Ingram started the season looking like he hadn't improved, but he played at an all-star level in January and especially February.

Even Lonzo, who I'm not the biggest fan of, shot kinda well from downtown in late December and January until he got hurt.

It's totally possible to develop young talent while bringing in veterans to get closer to finishing the job.

Unless you're referring to the lack of player development coaches in the organization.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject:

I hope he gets back on the PED's.
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