White Actors Suing ‘Hamilton’ for Racial Discrimination
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:29 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?

How do you define different? Two are Asian, two are Caucasian. Ethnicity playing ethnicity?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


All I know is that Godzilla is CGI in his current movie, thus costing a human actor a job, regardless of whether they were Japanese or otherwise. That's the real crisis in Hollywood.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


I think it's a very valid and interesting side question. My answer would be that it depends primarily on who you ask, and secondarily, on how important the nationality of the character (as well as the characteristic of that nationality) is to the character.

For many of us here, we enjoyed watching the Netflix series Narcos. But I have read a number of Colombians took issue with it because many of the primary characters weren't played by Colombians. Wagner Moura is from Brazil, and apparently couldn't even speak Spanish prior to shooting the film. Escobar's wife in the movie was Mexican and one of Escobar's henchmen was Puero Rican, etc. It has been said that for Colombians, the difference is akin to having an American actor with a Southern drawl starring in the role of a British character like King Arthur.

To complicate it further ... Who would be a better fit to play former president Dwight Eisenhower (of German descent) in a film? Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ed Harris?

None of this is to say that I think we should legislate how Hollywood or any other filmmaker casts their films, but, more so, that the distinctions between the character and the actor playing the character will matter little to some and potentially a lot to others depending on who you ask.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:44 am    Post subject:

^^reminds me of watching Apocalypse Now with my girlfriend at the time who was a Filipina. She started laughing at the "Vietnamese" extras who were speaking Tagalog.
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:13 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


I think it's a very valid and interesting side question. My answer would be that it depends primarily on who you ask, and secondarily, on how important the nationality of the character (as well as the characteristic of that nationality) is to the character.

For many of us here, we enjoyed watching the Netflix series Narcos. But I have read a number of Colombians took issue with it because many of the primary characters weren't played by Colombians. Wagner Moura is from Brazil, and apparently couldn't even speak Spanish prior to shooting the film. Escobar's wife in the movie was Mexican and one of Escobar's henchmen was Puero Rican, etc. It has been said that for Colombians, the difference is akin to having an American actor with a Southern drawl starring in the role of a British character like King Arthur.

To complicate it further ... Who would be a better fit to play former president Dwight Eisenhower (of German descent) in a film? Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ed Harris?

None of this is to say that I think we should legislate how Hollywood or any other filmmaker casts their films, but, more so, that the distinctions between the character and the actor playing the character will matter little to some and potentially a lot to others depending on who you ask.


I think in a perfect utopian world, all of these wouldn't matter and an artist can just express their artistic creation however he/she/it wants but I think the whole argument started due to lack of opportunities for certain racial groups. So if accounting for lack of roles, a Japanese descent playing a Chinese role is still 'better' (maybe there's a better term) than a european descent playing the same role
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


I think it's a very valid and interesting side question. My answer would be that it depends primarily on who you ask, and secondarily, on how important the nationality of the character (as well as the characteristic of that nationality) is to the character.

For many of us here, we enjoyed watching the Netflix series Narcos. But I have read a number of Colombians took issue with it because many of the primary characters weren't played by Colombians. Wagner Moura is from Brazil, and apparently couldn't even speak Spanish prior to shooting the film. Escobar's wife in the movie was Mexican and one of Escobar's henchmen was Puero Rican, etc. It has been said that for Colombians, the difference is akin to having an American actor with a Southern drawl starring in the role of a British character like King Arthur.

To complicate it further ... Who would be a better fit to play former president Dwight Eisenhower (of German descent) in a film? Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ed Harris?

None of this is to say that I think we should legislate how Hollywood or any other filmmaker casts their films, but, more so, that the distinctions between the character and the actor playing the character will matter little to some and potentially a lot to others depending on who you ask.


I think in a perfect utopian world, all of these wouldn't matter and an artist can just express their artistic creation however he/she/it wants but I think the whole argument started due to lack of opportunities for certain racial groups. So if accounting for lack of roles, a Japanese descent playing a Chinese role is still 'better' (maybe there's a better term) than a european descent playing the same role


Yeah, agreed with the first part. I have no issues if someone wants to create an artwork and use underrepresented groups in it. People/artists should be completely free to do that. I'm only against having that happen artificially via some 3rd party that will tell Jordan Peele (or whoever) who he may cast for a particular project.

On your last part though, what if the actor/actress of Japanese descent was inferior in terms of their acting skills than the actor/actress of European descent? Would it still be better? (Should it matter?)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:34 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


I think it's a very valid and interesting side question. My answer would be that it depends primarily on who you ask, and secondarily, on how important the nationality of the character (as well as the characteristic of that nationality) is to the character.

For many of us here, we enjoyed watching the Netflix series Narcos. But I have read a number of Colombians took issue with it because many of the primary characters weren't played by Colombians. Wagner Moura is from Brazil, and apparently couldn't even speak Spanish prior to shooting the film. Escobar's wife in the movie was Mexican and one of Escobar's henchmen was Puero Rican, etc. It has been said that for Colombians, the difference is akin to having an American actor with a Southern drawl starring in the role of a British character like King Arthur.

To complicate it further ... Who would be a better fit to play former president Dwight Eisenhower (of German descent) in a film? Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ed Harris?

None of this is to say that I think we should legislate how Hollywood or any other filmmaker casts their films, but, more so, that the distinctions between the character and the actor playing the character will matter little to some and potentially a lot to others depending on who you ask.


I think in a perfect utopian world, all of these wouldn't matter and an artist can just express their artistic creation however he/she/it wants but I think the whole argument started due to lack of opportunities for certain racial groups. So if accounting for lack of roles, a Japanese descent playing a Chinese role is still 'better' (maybe there's a better term) than a european descent playing the same role


Yeah, agreed with the first part. I have no issues if someone wants to create an artwork and use underrepresented groups in it. People/artists should be completely free to do that. I'm only against having that happen artificially via some 3rd party that will tell Jordan Peele (or whoever) who he may cast for a particular project.

On your last part though, what if the actor/actress of Japanese descent was inferior in terms of their acting skills than the actor/actress of European descent? Would it still be better? (Should it matter?)

It should definitely matter. I think the understanding of this lack of roles is not due to lack of skill but due to racial preference, do you agree?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
governator wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
It’s an interesting side question: is a Chinese person playing a Japanese character different than a German playing a Russian?


I think it's a very valid and interesting side question. My answer would be that it depends primarily on who you ask, and secondarily, on how important the nationality of the character (as well as the characteristic of that nationality) is to the character.

For many of us here, we enjoyed watching the Netflix series Narcos. But I have read a number of Colombians took issue with it because many of the primary characters weren't played by Colombians. Wagner Moura is from Brazil, and apparently couldn't even speak Spanish prior to shooting the film. Escobar's wife in the movie was Mexican and one of Escobar's henchmen was Puero Rican, etc. It has been said that for Colombians, the difference is akin to having an American actor with a Southern drawl starring in the role of a British character like King Arthur.

To complicate it further ... Who would be a better fit to play former president Dwight Eisenhower (of German descent) in a film? Arnold Schwarzenegger or Ed Harris?

None of this is to say that I think we should legislate how Hollywood or any other filmmaker casts their films, but, more so, that the distinctions between the character and the actor playing the character will matter little to some and potentially a lot to others depending on who you ask.


I think in a perfect utopian world, all of these wouldn't matter and an artist can just express their artistic creation however he/she/it wants but I think the whole argument started due to lack of opportunities for certain racial groups. So if accounting for lack of roles, a Japanese descent playing a Chinese role is still 'better' (maybe there's a better term) than a european descent playing the same role


Yeah, agreed with the first part. I have no issues if someone wants to create an artwork and use underrepresented groups in it. People/artists should be completely free to do that. I'm only against having that happen artificially via some 3rd party that will tell Jordan Peele (or whoever) who he may cast for a particular project.

On your last part though, what if the actor/actress of Japanese descent was inferior in terms of their acting skills than the actor/actress of European descent? Would it still be better? (Should it matter?)

It should definitely matter. I think the understanding of this lack of roles is not due to lack of skill but due to racial preference, do you agree?


Yep, I would definitely agree. Although, I'm not sure that Lucy Liu, for instance, is in the stratosphere of ScarJo when it comes to acting ability. Although, I suppose, that is all in the eye of the beholder.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject:

There is sign of improvement. Crazy Rich Asians with lead roles of Asian actors did/doing well $ wise.
There's also the unprecedented all Asian American Movie on Netflix with Ali Wong (can't remember the last one, prob 'better luck tomorrow' like 15 yrs ago) where they portrayed all Asian role as... Americans, not foreigner.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

There's a series on MAX, Warriors, with a predominantly Asian cast. I'm not versed on Asian culture so I don't know if the plot is one Asians would be in line with. If any here have seen the series please chime in and opinion.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
There is sign of improvement. Crazy Rich Asians with lead roles of Asian actors did/doing well $ wise.
There's also the unprecedented all Asian American Movie on Netflix with Ali Wong (can't remember the last one, prob 'better luck tomorrow' like 15 yrs ago) where they portrayed all Asian role as... Americans, not foreigner.

Watched Crazy Rich Asians, it was a very good movie. Traditional love story mixed with tradition. I really liked it. I recommend it as a view.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Had to bump the thread.

I just re-watched The Good The Bad and The Ugly. Eli Wallach played a Mexican. If I didn't know better I would have thought he was really Mexican. He was also convincing playing a Mexican in The Magnificent Seven.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Had to bump the thread.

I just re-watched The Good The Bad and The Ugly. Eli Wallach played a Mexican. If I didn't know better I would have thought he was really Mexican. He was also convincing playing a Mexican in The Magnificent Seven.


And Italians played Mexicans and Native Americans in those Spaghetti Westerns, hence the name.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Had to bump the thread.

I just re-watched The Good The Bad and The Ugly. Eli Wallach played a Mexican. If I didn't know better I would have thought he was really Mexican. He was also convincing playing a Mexican in The Magnificent Seven.


And Italians played Mexicans and Native Americans in those Spaghetti Westerns, hence the name.

To me they aren't as convincing as Eli. He not only had the accent he had the look.
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