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bfc1125roy
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I don't care what offenses they run, I want a coach who can get some consistent defense out of these guys.
The defense declined noticeably once Lonzo and his on ball pressure departed the lineup. |
Respectfully, you should care. Luke Walton's offense was one of the worst I've seen in the NBA, or college basketball, in a long time. I've seen HS teams run better sets, tbh. Our talent was good enough to still score enough, but if we had an offense that made things easier for our players, we would have been much more explosive.
Defensively, that's important too. In the post I talk briefly about how Monty Williams hedged too hard on PnRs, which in today's NBA, will be exploited heavily. If people are interested in that, I can breakdown those rotations too. But keep in mind, he had Anthony Davis as an elite anchor, who we may or may not have next season.
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Woj: One of the messages Ty Lue wants to get through to Rob Pelinka is: ‘I’m not here to be LeBron James’ coach․ I’m here to coach the Lakers. I’m going to coach the whole group.’ |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12194
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | Woj: One of the messages Ty Lue wants to get through to Rob Pelinka is: ‘I’m not here to be LeBron James’ coach․ I’m here to coach the Lakers. I’m going to coach the whole group.’ |
Post a link......this is not on Woj's site. So it appears to be made up.
Link would help |
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Staccatos
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | Woj: One of the messages Ty Lue wants to get through to Rob Pelinka is: ‘I’m not here to be LeBron James’ coach․ I’m here to coach the Lakers. I’m going to coach the whole group.’ |
Post a link......this is not on Woj's site. So it appears to be made up.
Link would help |
Think its from LakersNation instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwda5f8lvv1/ |
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HermosaJoe
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bfc1125roy wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | I don't care what offenses they run, I want a coach who can get some consistent defense out of these guys. The defense declined noticeably once Lonzo and his on ball pressure departed the lineup. |
Respectfully, you should care. Luke Walton's offense was one of the worst I've seen in the NBA, or college basketball, in a long time. I've seen HS teams run better sets, tbh. Our talent was good enough to still score enough, but if we had an offense that made things easier for our players, we would have been much more explosive. Defensively, that's important too. In the post I talk briefly about how Monty Williams hedged too hard on PnRs, which in today's NBA, will be exploited heavily. If people are interested in that, I can breakdown those rotations too. But keep in mind, he had Anthony Davis as an elite anchor, who we may or may not have next season. |
bfc, thanks for the other thread you started. You and Pete/Golden Throat really know how to break things down. Yeah, in 3 seasons, Luke was not able to install some good basic NBA, or even college, offensive sets! |
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| HermosaJoe wrote: | | bfc1125roy wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | I don't care what offenses they run, I want a coach who can get some consistent defense out of these guys. The defense declined noticeably once Lonzo and his on ball pressure departed the lineup. |
Respectfully, you should care. Luke Walton's offense was one of the worst I've seen in the NBA, or college basketball, in a long time. I've seen HS teams run better sets, tbh. Our talent was good enough to still score enough, but if we had an offense that made things easier for our players, we would have been much more explosive. Defensively, that's important too. In the post I talk briefly about how Monty Williams hedged too hard on PnRs, which in today's NBA, will be exploited heavily. If people are interested in that, I can breakdown those rotations too. But keep in mind, he had Anthony Davis as an elite anchor, who we may or may not have next season. |
bfc, thanks for the other thread you started. You and Pete/Golden Throat really know how to break things down. Yeah, in 3 seasons, Luke was not able to install some good basic NBA, or even college, offensive sets! |
Thanks I really appreciate it! Check out the latest stuff on the chess game Lue played with the pick and roll. It's much deeper and a good read if you like that sort of thing.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Lue, IMO is the safer play. From what I've broken down, his offense is better. His transition defense though, is very, very bad. But that may be a byproduct of having JR Smith and Kevin Love starting.
Williams hasn't been a head coach in a little bit. So the film I've broken down so far shows outdated tactics. From what I've seen, he coaches very similar to Luke. Try to attack the defense before it's set. Lots of pick and roll sets. Defensively, he stuck to a "high hedging" technique on the screen and roll, which cost the Pelicans. But it's tough to put too much of the blame on him, given how bad that team was constructed and the FO was run.
However, Brett Brown does a lot of cool things for Philly, which Williams may or may not bring. That we don't know. Brown has not, however, figured out how to play Embiid and Simmons well together. And that may be a problem if we have guards like Rondo and Ball who cannot shoot.
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deal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | Woj: One of the messages Ty Lue wants to get through to Rob Pelinka is: ‘I’m not here to be LeBron James’ coach․ I’m here to coach the Lakers. I’m going to coach the whole group.’ |
So says a LeBron mouth piece...
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Practice
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
He said Lue is a top 10 offensive coach. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
With Lue we at least had footage. Luke breakdowns were all “how the Warriors playstlye translates to the Lakers. |
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Lue is probably the only former Laker who won’t screw it up.... so if we hire him I expect him to be a significant upgrade over Luke and Scott. |
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Lue is probably the only former Laker who won’t screw it up.... so if we hire him I expect him to be a significant upgrade over Luke and Scott. |
I would be cautiously optimistic.
More than our coach, it'll probably depend on the team we have in place. Right now, our team cannot run about 80% of the stuff Lue did, mainly because of the lack of 3PT shooting.
Get Kawhi Leonard and Anthony Davis here, then it won't matter if its Lyronn Tue or Tyronn Lue coaching us, we will contend.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bfc1125roy wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Lue is probably the only former Laker who won’t screw it up.... so if we hire him I expect him to be a significant upgrade over Luke and Scott. |
I would be cautiously optimistic.
More than our coach, it'll probably depend on the team we have in place. Right now, our team cannot run about 80% of the stuff Lue did, mainly because of the lack of 3PT shooting.
Get Kawhi Leonard and Anthony Davis here, then it won't matter if its Lyronn Tue or Tyronn Lue coaching us, we will contend. |
I agree.
Since Lue is familiar with guys like JR Smith, I expect him to tell the FO to pursue him for added 3pt shooting. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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We will become the Cleveland Lakers if we also get Tristan Thompson  |
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Luminous8
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| So we get rid of a top 10 defensive coach and add a top 10 offensive coach. Both of which show significant deficiencies in the other area. Wasn’t lue’s cavs something like 27th defense. One could argue that Luke’s offense was better than Lue’s D. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | So we get rid of a top 10 defensive coach and add a top 10 offensive coach. Both of which show significant deficiencies in the other area. Wasn’t lue’s cavs something like 27th defense. One could argue that Luke’s offense was better than Lue’s D. |
I don’t know anything about Lou’s defense, but I don’t think that’s possible.
One would hope that our team has better defensive personnel than the Cavs did. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
With Lue we at least had footage. Luke breakdowns were all “how the Warriors playstlye translates to the Lakers. |
True. Plus I don't recall what GT thought of Luke on the initial hire.
Side: do you guys hire on coaching ability foremost? Or based on the players in the team foremost? |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role. |
A part of me wants to say the players we had on the team were just too dumb. Or inexperienced. Even basic sets were probably hard for them. Sad.
Last edited by epak on Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Practice
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
With Lue we at least had footage. Luke breakdowns were all “how the Warriors playstlye translates to the Lakers. |
True. Plus I don't recall what GT thought of Luke on the initial hire.
Side: do you guys hire on coaching ability foremost? Or based on the players in the team foremost? |
That probably depends on the team. If your team is already built you aren’t going to sign a coach that doesn’t fit the players, but in other cases you may want build around the coach’s play style. |
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lakerlori
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I don’t think anyone is a lock to become our head coach right now, we are still exploring options. |
People, Lakers are just going thru the motions to PRETEND they aren't automatically doing LeBrons bidding. It's just an act. |
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Practice wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
With Lue we at least had footage. Luke breakdowns were all “how the Warriors playstlye translates to the Lakers. |
True. Plus I don't recall what GT thought of Luke on the initial hire.
Side: do you guys hire on coaching ability foremost? Or based on the players in the team foremost? |
That probably depends on the team. If your team is already built you aren’t going to sign a coach that doesn’t fit the players, but in other cases you may want build around the coach’s play style. |
A good coach adapts to his roster. Phil was a great example. The triangle looked different with the Bulls, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, and the Kobe/Pau Lakers. Popovich is the same too.
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bfc1125roy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | bfc1125roy wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Does GT support the hire of Lue? I know he seems somewhat positive towards him. |
Did he support the initial hire of Luke? |
I wouldn't fault anyone for supporting the initial hire of Walton. We all thought he was going to bring elements of the Warriors offense over. But as far as we saw, he did very little of that. Part of that was our teams were very different, but also because he used an inexperienced staff of assistants and relied on them for the Xs and Os, which they ultimately failed to do consistently.
About partway through Walton's second season, his offensive limitations were clear. His chest series was weak compared to what most of the league ran. The 1-4 high was even worse, honestly. Then you had the constant PnRs with no prelude or disguise, isolations, and lack of any meaningful 2nd options when the plays didn't work.
Also, even forgetting the sets they ran, just watch how the team looked on offense. You would see guys try to screen, run back, and then 2 seconds later try to screen again. Lots and lots of standing around. People just looked unsure of what to do. Plays we copied from other teams just weren't executed well - not making contact on screens, not making the right reads, etc.
If you'd like more evidence of that, check out a post I wrote on here detailing it: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=187056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We couldn't have anticipated this based on what he did in GSW, where the offense, defense, and chemistry were already in place. He just had to play more of a leadership role. |
A part of me wants to say the players we had on the team were just too dumb. Or inexperienced. Even basic sets were probably hard for them. Sad. |
I'm not 100% convinced of that. Many players have run more complicated offenses in the past. LeBron under Lue, Rondo under Gentry and Rivers, Ball in UCLA, Kuzma in Utah, Ingram at Duke, McGee in Golden State, KCP for Van Gundy, etc.
In fact, when Nance and Clarkson got traded to the Cavs midseason, they were flawlessly running complex sets there, which they were not doing under Luke. You can head over to my other topic to see Nance and Clarkson execute a flawless single side tag, which is a second option out of the high post split action the Cavs run. And they didn't even have a training camp to learn it. Never seen the Lakers execute something like that.
Luke has been asked about it in interviews, and his response was that he didn't want to run complex sets because he couldn't teach them due to the injuries. But I don't buy that. He's had 2 training camps to figure something out. And we never really had a go to play that could get us a bucket. He also refused to upgrade his coaching staff (reportedly), and while the loyalty is cool, that's a huge red flag.
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