The season before he joined the Heat Chris Bosh was #4 in PER behind LeBron, Wade, and Durant.
So you rank players by PER?
That surprises me. I wouldn't think that efficiency would be your primary benchmark for players.
But that's your business. I don't rank players by PER.
Just for fun, we're talking about 2010
1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. DWade
4. Dirk
5. Durant?
6. Bosh?
7. Amare?
8. D.Rose?
9. Blake?
10. Westbrook?
LaMarcus?
Steph prob not yet
Was Bosh top 5? I think close to it
I'd agree with the top 3. But I think you're forgetting a few key players. Dwight Howard was IMO, top 5 at the time and one of the best defensive players we'd seen since Ben Wallace. Carmelo Anthony was very talented, too. You could maybe put one of the Spurs guys in the top 10. Some might argue Nash too because of how well they played that year.
Either way, highly subjective.
yeah, that was a quick on top of the head... Melo was a bad dude back then, Dwight too but I think either that year or the next yr is when his back gave out, Nash was up there too (hell we trade for both of them lol) and Tim Duncan lol, so is Bosh top 5... maybe top 10?
Just for fun, we're talking about 2010
1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. DWade
4. Dirk
5. Durant?
6. Bosh?
7. Amare?
8. D.Rose?
9. Blake?
10. Westbrook?
LaMarcus?
Steph prob not yet
Was Bosh top 5? I think close to it
Bosh did not make the all-NBA team, first, second, or third. Here is who made it:
1st Team
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade
2nd Team
Carmelo Anthony
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Amar'e Stoudemire
Deron Williams
3rd Team
Andrew Bogut
Tim Duncan
Pau Gasol
Joe Johnson
Brandon Roy
I can't say that I would have ranked Bosh over any of those players as of 2010.
I would probably put him over Bogut. Why are there 3 bigs on the All NBA team, though.
Bosh was pretty good back then. He was a legit first option on an otherwise "meh" Raptors team that he, at points, was able to carry to the playoffs. There was a reason people were discussing trading Bynum for him. _________________ (bleep) David Stern.
Top-15th player is really good as a 3rd guy, we talking about Klay/Draymond as equivalent
Bosh was still in Toronto in 2010, so he was a first guy. He averaged 24.0/10.8. So Bogut averaged 15.9/10.2 for Milwaukee, and he got picked for the all-NBA team over Bosh. Bosh was just not particularly respected as a player. In truth, that never changed. Do you remember the promotional video he put out for himself at one point?
Top-15th player is really good as a 3rd guy, we talking about Klay/Draymond as equivalent
Bosh was a very good player. A great third banana. We're just disputing the idea that he was a top 5 guy.
This does demonstrate the problem of trying to measure the quality of a star's teammates. People often inflate or deflate those teammates based solely on what case they are trying to make for the star.
Top-15th player is really good as a 3rd guy, we talking about Klay/Draymond as equivalent
Bosh was still in Toronto in 2010, so he was a first guy. He averaged 24.0/10.8. So Bogut averaged 15.9/10.2 for Milwaukee, and he got picked for the all-NBA team over Bosh. Bosh was just not particularly respected as a player. In truth, that never changed. Do you remember the promotional video he put out for himself at one point?
Top-15th player is really good as a 3rd guy, we talking about Klay/Draymond as equivalent
Bosh was still in Toronto in 2010, so he was a first guy. He averaged 24.0/10.8. So Bogut averaged 15.9/10.2 for Milwaukee, and he got picked for the all-NBA team over Bosh. Bosh was just not particularly respected as a player. In truth, that never changed. Do you remember the promotional video he put out for himself at one point?
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Klay for sure is. Dray? Probably top 20.
I wouldn't touch Dray, he's a drama queen and he's not going to be
as good elsewhere...Lakers need shooters; = Klay. _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Well, Bosh was ranked #15 in his final year in Toronto, when he was the #1 option. In a lot of lists, and on the all-NBA voting, he dropped to the mid-20s as the third banana on the Heat.
Klay and Draymond are often listed in the mid-teens now as the third and fourth banana on the Warriors. So I'd say both of them are considered better than Bosh.
That surprises me. I wouldn't think that efficiency would be your primary benchmark for players.
But that's your business. I don't rank players by PER.
This was the first time I had heard anyone cite PER in a discussion in a long time, possibly years. I've seen PER tossed into a discussion along with a bunch of the modern metrics, but PER is the flip phone of basketball metrics.
I found it pretty weird too. Can't remember the last time I heard someone make a case for ranking players by PER -- probably has been years.
Hilarious considering PER was used by people like you FOREVER to prove that LeBron was better than Kobe and that Kobe wasn't int he GOAT conversation. Funny how when the stat doesn't fit your agenda it all of a sudden becomes "obsolete"
Also, weren't you "done" participating in these kinds of threads? (at least that's what you say every time and then you still hang around fighting tooth and nail)
It was literally being used as recent as 2016 to "prove that Curry was better than Kobe".
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Well, Bosh was ranked #15 in his final year in Toronto, when he was the #1 option. In a lot of lists, and on the all-NBA voting, he dropped to the mid-20s as the third banana on the Heat.
Klay and Draymond are often listed in the mid-teens now as the third and fourth banana on the Warriors. So I'd say both of them are considered better than Bosh.
"Lots of lists". Lol. So now arbitrary lists made by sports journalists are the end all be all? You REALLY think that Draymond is better than Bosh based on lists? Could Draymond Green carry the Toronto Raptors to the playoffs like Bosh did as "the man"? Get out of here, bro. Now you're really reaching. And all this after you said a few pages back that it's "impossible" to quantify and compare the quality of teammates. Yet here you are, using arbitrary lists to try to do it. You're all over the place mr "I'm all about facts that can be proven".
That surprises me. I wouldn't think that efficiency would be your primary benchmark for players.
But that's your business. I don't rank players by PER.
This was the first time I had heard anyone cite PER in a discussion in a long time, possibly years. I've seen PER tossed into a discussion along with a bunch of the modern metrics, but PER is the flip phone of basketball metrics.
I found it pretty weird too. Can't remember the last time I heard someone make a case for ranking players by PER -- probably has been years.
Hilarious considering PER was used by people like you FOREVER to prove that LeBron was better than Kobe and that Kobe wasn't int he GOAT conversation. Funny how when the stat doesn't fit your agenda it all of a sudden becomes "obsolete"
Also, weren't you "done" participating in these kinds of threads? (at least that's what you say every time and then you still hang around fighting tooth and nail)
It was literally being used as recent as 2016 to "prove that Curry was better than Kobe".
You're the one who brought up PER and you're the only one on this thread who's talked about it in a positive way. Right now, you're just arguing with yourself in the mirror, my friend
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Well, Bosh was ranked #15 in his final year in Toronto, when he was the #1 option. In a lot of lists, and on the all-NBA voting, he dropped to the mid-20s as the third banana on the Heat.
Klay and Draymond are often listed in the mid-teens now as the third and fourth banana on the Warriors. So I'd say both of them are considered better than Bosh.
"Lots of lists". Lol. So now arbitrary lists made by sports journalists are the end all be all? You REALLY think that Draymond is better than Bosh based on lists? Could Draymond Green carry the Toronto Raptors to the playoffs like Bosh did as "the man"? Get out of here, bro. Now you're really reaching. And all this after you said a few pages back that it's "impossible" to quantify and compare the quality of teammates. Yet here you are, using arbitrary lists to try to do it. You're all over the place mr "I'm all about facts that can be proven".
Draymond vs. Bosh really is a fascinating topic because it says a lot about the relative value of talent compared to the value of fit when putting teams together.
Bosh is probably more valuable as a #1 guy, but if he's your #1 guy you'll likely top out at a poor to mediocre team. Draymond is probably better as a #3 guy for an excellent team because hell bring different attributes that the #1 and #2 guys dont emphasize.
Bosh was probably on Gasol's level back then, perhaps not as good. Of course the Heat still had D. Wade, who was unquestionably a top 5 player back then.
yeah, great 3rd option
Is Klay or Draymond top 15 now like Bosh back then?
Well, Bosh was ranked #15 in his final year in Toronto, when he was the #1 option. In a lot of lists, and on the all-NBA voting, he dropped to the mid-20s as the third banana on the Heat.
Klay and Draymond are often listed in the mid-teens now as the third and fourth banana on the Warriors. So I'd say both of them are considered better than Bosh.
"Lots of lists". Lol. So now arbitrary lists made by sports journalists are the end all be all? You REALLY think that Draymond is better than Bosh based on lists? Could Draymond Green carry the Toronto Raptors to the playoffs like Bosh did as "the man"? Get out of here, bro. Now you're really reaching. And all this after you said a few pages back that it's "impossible" to quantify and compare the quality of teammates. Yet here you are, using arbitrary lists to try to do it. You're all over the place mr "I'm all about facts that can be proven".
Draymond vs. Bosh really is a fascinating topic because it says a lot about the relative value of talent compared to the value of fit when putting teams together.
Bosh is probably more valuable as a #1 guy, but if he's your #1 guy you'll likely top out at a poor to mediocre team. Draymond is probably better as a #3 guy for an excellent team because hell bring different attributes that the #1 and #2 guys dont emphasize.
If a guy is more valuable as a #1 guy then he's the better player, period.
You say that having Bosh as your #1 guy tops out at a poor-to-mediocre team. So where does a team with Draymond as your #1 guy top out? Not even making the playoffs? Most likely.
^
That's a bit too simplistic for me. Bosh is definitely a much better scorer and shooter. Green is a much better defender, passer, and probably a better rebounder. Interesting but hard comparison because Green is such a unique player.
If you put Draymond on the Clippers right now, they would be a pretty tough team and he'd probably average 15/8/8. Is that enough to be an All-Star? Probably not, but he would be considered the team's best player.
If you put Draymond on the Clippers right now, they would be a pretty tough team and he'd probably average 15/8/8. Is that enough to be an All-Star? Probably not, but he would be considered the team's best player.
The Clippers already made the playoffs without him, though.
That's not really the same.
Take Bosh off of the Raptors and they don't even sniff the playoffs.
If you put Draymond on the Clippers right now, they would be a pretty tough team and he'd probably average 15/8/8. Is that enough to be an All-Star? Probably not, but he would be considered the team's best player.
The Clippers already made the playoffs without him, though.
That's not really the same.
Take Bosh off of the Raptors and they don't even sniff the playoffs.
Well that's no saying much. While Bosh played in Toronto, they were above .500 only once and only made the playoffs twice.
If you put Draymond on the Clippers right now, they would be a pretty tough team and he'd probably average 15/8/8. Is that enough to be an All-Star? Probably not, but he would be considered the team's best player.
The Clippers already made the playoffs without him, though.
That's not really the same.
Take Bosh off of the Raptors and they don't even sniff the playoffs.
Well that's no saying much. While Bosh played in Toronto, they were above .500 only once and only made the playoffs twice.
You mean two more times than Draymond has ever lead a team to the playoffs?
You're proving my point for me. Without Bosh, Raptors don't even sniff the playoffs. The Clippers already made it without Draymond so it's disingenuous to pretend that it's an apples to apples comparison.
Here's a better comparison. Replace Bosh with Draymond, do those Raptors even make the playoffs?
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