Broussard: "Majority" of ex-players rank Kobe ahead of Lebron
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dxfactor
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject:

Did you just say Ray Allen was better? Good grief!!!! I want to know what NBA you were watching. Kobe was the best 2 Guard in the league from the moment MJ retired in 1998 and this is not up for debate. There were guys (AI and Tmac) who challenged him for a few years, but none better.

Also, he shot 50 shots in his final game and not 60, and his team needed everyone of them to win that game. Shooting 50 shots and scoring 60 is actually a very decent percentage. Reason, 50 Field Goals = 100 pts if you shoot 100 pct from the field. 60 pts is the equivalent of 60 percent if you go purely off 2 pt field goals. This is well above average. Now of course, we have to consider Free throws and 3pt shots, but that was not a bad shooting performance at all. its just one of those statements people throw around for shock factor.

About the only thing Lebron can legitimately do better than Kobe is rebound (which is a size and positional advantage) and maybe pass which is a system advantage (Lebron never played in the triangle offense which limits ball handling by design). Kobe on the other hand was a better mid range shooter, better 3 point shooter, better dunker, better ball handler, better post player, better footwork which allowed him to create space anywhere on the floor, better free throw shooter, better perimeter defender, better post defender and could shut most wing scorers down if he put his mind to it. These things do not appear on a stat sheet, but anyone with eyes can see this quite easily.

Kobe is so much more skilled than Lebron, its actually comical that anyone would think Lebron is better. Lebron is a better athlete though (ill give him that), but sentiments aside, Kobe is simply the better basketball player and this is not even close. As a leader, Kobe and Lebron are not even in the same sentence. Whenever Kobe played, you always felt we could win, even when we were behind. Lebron simply isn't that guy. Kobe had a killer will that could only be matched by MJ.


Sssmush wrote:
I'm a kobe fan, and the top of his peak was astronomical, but there were times when it was debatable whether ray allen and Tim Duncan were better, and whether he was a total chucker. His final season just made that so questionable for me, including 60 points on 60 shots and like *wheeeee look at me*

I will say that Lebron is apples and oranges because he can do more. Actually based on peak Kobe has a better argument against Jordan, contrary to what all the commentators say. Just watch some full game films from classic jordan and you start busting out laughing. The constant one dimensional iso, defenders dont dare go above 3point line, you just barely touch jordan it is a foul, the whole game is jordan whistle free throw. If people then saw the way they guard Steph now at 40 feet with power forwards they'd freak.

Kebron is different though from both guys, because he's legit 6'8" rebounds like a beast and can guard 5 positions. Also the scoring is more direct and in your face... prime Lebron dunks like Giannis at will, has a mid range game like Karl Malone, defends and rebounds like a rodman. Now he's got a wicked 3 game those other dudes never had. If kebron overrated at all it's his passing and playmaking, which doesnt seem that amazing, just him drawing defense and dishing off kind of one dimensionally
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 27963

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject:

dxfactor wrote:

Also, he shot 50 shots in his final game and not 60, and his team needed everyone of them to win that game. Shooting 50 shots and scoring 60 is actually a very decent percentage. Reason, 50 Field Goals = 100 pts if you shoot 100 pct from the field. 60 pts is the equivalent of 60 percent if you go purely off 2 pt field goals. This is well above average. Now of course, we have to consider Free throws and 3pt shots, but that was not a bad shooting performance at all.



Your math is strange.

Kobe shot 22 for 50 (44%) overall; 6 for 21 from 3s (29%) and 10 for 12 from free throws (83%).

Based on how how players shot in the NBA that year (going by TS% or efg%), that was an average or slightly below-average shooting performance.

But who cares? Efficiency and great shooting was never Kobe's calling card. Scoring was, and it was a great scoring performance. It was thrilling and people enjoyed seeing him going out shooting with abandon.

The shooting attempts and three-point shooting is always going to give ammunition to people who already think he's a gunner, but most people thought it was a great performance coming at the end of an injury-riddled season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4498

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
dxfactor wrote:

Also, he shot 50 shots in his final game and not 60, and his team needed everyone of them to win that game. Shooting 50 shots and scoring 60 is actually a very decent percentage. Reason, 50 Field Goals = 100 pts if you shoot 100 pct from the field. 60 pts is the equivalent of 60 percent if you go purely off 2 pt field goals. This is well above average. Now of course, we have to consider Free throws and 3pt shots, but that was not a bad shooting performance at all.



Your math is strange.

Kobe shot 22 for 50 (44%) overall; 6 for 21 from 3s (29%) and 10 for 12 from free throws (83%).

Based on how how players shot in the NBA that year (going by TS% or efg%), that was an average or slightly below-average shooting performance.

But who cares? Efficiency and great shooting was never Kobe's calling card. Scoring was, and it was a great scoring performance. It was thrilling and people enjoyed seeing him going out shooting with abandon.

The shooting attempts and three-point shooting is always going to give ammunition to people who already think he's a gunner, but most people thought it was a great performance coming at the end of an injury-riddled season.


Your hate for Kobe is truly remarkable. In every single thread about the man you are there front and center Disguised hate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 27963

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
activeverb wrote:
dxfactor wrote:

Also, he shot 50 shots in his final game and not 60, and his team needed everyone of them to win that game. Shooting 50 shots and scoring 60 is actually a very decent percentage. Reason, 50 Field Goals = 100 pts if you shoot 100 pct from the field. 60 pts is the equivalent of 60 percent if you go purely off 2 pt field goals. This is well above average. Now of course, we have to consider Free throws and 3pt shots, but that was not a bad shooting performance at all.



Your math is strange.

Kobe shot 22 for 50 (44%) overall; 6 for 21 from 3s (29%) and 10 for 12 from free throws (83%).

Based on how how players shot in the NBA that year (going by TS% or efg%), that was an average or slightly below-average shooting performance.

But who cares? Efficiency and great shooting was never Kobe's calling card. Scoring was, and it was a great scoring performance. It was thrilling and people enjoyed seeing him going out shooting with abandon.

The shooting attempts and three-point shooting is always going to give ammunition to people who already think he's a gunner, but most people thought it was a great performance coming at the end of an injury-riddled season.


Your hate for Kobe is truly remarkable. In every single thread about the man you are there front and center Disguised hate.



Hmm. So I posted the stats from the game, and said it was a great performance that people enjoyed but his shooting efficiency (as measured by efg and ts%) was below the league average.

But I bet I can guess what is making you upset. I am a fact checker by nature. I love facts.

So when a poster says, "Kobe's shooting in his last game, 60 points on 50 shots, is actually pretty good shooting," a big Kobe fan like you will say, "Great! He's saying something good about Kobe."

My response will be, "Hmm, is 60 points on 50 shoots really above average shooting?" And I'll look it up because I want to know, but I don't particularly care whether the answer reflects well or poorly on Kobe. I just care what the facts are.

And nowadays, many people become upset about facts that aren't what they want them to be. And because lots of people on LG post inaccurate information about Kobe and Lebron, they tend to think my corrections are due to my being a fan/detractor of these guys.

In fact, I like them both about equally. However, I like accurate information more. That's my thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Batguano
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1230

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
activeverb wrote:
dxfactor wrote:

Also, he shot 50 shots in his final game and not 60, and his team needed everyone of them to win that game. Shooting 50 shots and scoring 60 is actually a very decent percentage. Reason, 50 Field Goals = 100 pts if you shoot 100 pct from the field. 60 pts is the equivalent of 60 percent if you go purely off 2 pt field goals. This is well above average. Now of course, we have to consider Free throws and 3pt shots, but that was not a bad shooting performance at all.



Your math is strange.

Kobe shot 22 for 50 (44%) overall; 6 for 21 from 3s (29%) and 10 for 12 from free throws (83%).

Based on how how players shot in the NBA that year (going by TS% or efg%), that was an average or slightly below-average shooting performance.

But who cares? Efficiency and great shooting was never Kobe's calling card. Scoring was, and it was a great scoring performance. It was thrilling and people enjoyed seeing him going out shooting with abandon.

The shooting attempts and three-point shooting is always going to give ammunition to people who already think he's a gunner, but most people thought it was a great performance coming at the end of an injury-riddled season.


Your hate for Kobe is truly remarkable. In every single thread about the man you are there front and center Disguised hate.



Hmm. So I posted the stats from the game, and said it was a great performance that people enjoyed but his shooting efficiency (as measured by efg and ts%) was below the league average.

But I bet I can guess what is making you upset. I am a fact checker by nature. I love facts.

So when a poster says, "Kobe's shooting in his last game, 60 points on 50 shots, is actually pretty good shooting," a big Kobe fan like you will say, "Great! He's saying something good about Kobe."

My response will be, "Hmm, is 60 points on 50 shoots really above average shooting?" And I'll look it up because I want to know, but I don't particularly care whether the answer reflects well or poorly on Kobe. I just care what the facts are.

And nowadays, many people become upset about facts that aren't what they want them to be. And because lots of people on LG post inaccurate information about Kobe and Lebron, they tend to think my corrections are due to my being a fan/detractor of these guys.

In fact, I like them both about equally. However, I like accurate information more. That's my thing.


No. Your "thing" is crashing any and every thread where Kobe is getting too much props for your liking and derailing it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 27963

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:


No. Your "thing" is crashing any and every thread where Kobe is getting too much props for your liking and derailing it.



I have absolutely no problem with Kobe getting props. He's one of the greatest players of all time and he deserves them. But when people are giving him props by using inaccurate or incomplete information, I won't hesitate to correct them. That isn't a Kobe thing. I do that in lots of threads about other players and other topics as well.

But I understand that irritates some people. We are in an age when people are very casual with facts, and they don't like to be corrected when they use facts inaccurately (or make them up) to support something they believe.

Look at you: You're a huge Kobe fan with a long track record for misrepresenting quotes, statistics and facts to make your guy look better. And I get it: That's a reflection of your passion. And when you are corrected, you see that as a rebuke of Kobe rather than simply as a rebuke of your misrepresenting facts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
VALakerFan80
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 1590

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject:

I mean duh...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Darth Los Angeles
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 2063

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Batguano wrote:


No. Your "thing" is crashing any and every thread where Kobe is getting too much props for your liking and derailing it.



I have absolutely no problem with Kobe getting props. He's one of the greatest players of all time and he deserves them. But when people are giving him props by using inaccurate or incomplete information, I won't hesitate to correct them. That isn't a Kobe thing. I do that in lots of threads about other players and other topics as well.

But I understand that irritates some people. We are in an age when people are very casual with facts, and they don't like to be corrected when they use facts inaccurately (or make them up) to support something they believe.

Look at you: You're a huge Kobe fan with a long track record for misrepresenting quotes, statistics and facts to make your guy look better. And I get it: That's a reflection of your passion. And when you are corrected, you see that as a rebuke of Kobe rather than simply as a rebuke of your misrepresenting facts.


Man...
_________________
“There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 9050
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject:

tony wrote:
It’s a damn shame we didn’t get to see a Kobe vs. LBJ finals in 09 or 10.


Would've been real nice to see Kobe and the crew crush Bron's Cavs instead of the Magic in 09. I was always disappointed the Cavs couldn't get past Orlando that year.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 9050
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
activeverb wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:


Your hate for Kobe is truly remarkable. In every single thread about the man you are there front and center Disguised hate.



Hmm. So I posted the stats from the game, and said it was a great performance that people enjoyed but his shooting efficiency (as measured by efg and ts%) was below the league average.

But I bet I can guess what is making you upset. I am a fact checker by nature. I love facts.

So when a poster says, "Kobe's shooting in his last game, 60 points on 50 shots, is actually pretty good shooting," a big Kobe fan like you will say, "Great! He's saying something good about Kobe."

My response will be, "Hmm, is 60 points on 50 shoots really above average shooting?" And I'll look it up because I want to know, but I don't particularly care whether the answer reflects well or poorly on Kobe. I just care what the facts are.

And nowadays, many people become upset about facts that aren't what they want them to be. And because lots of people on LG post inaccurate information about Kobe and Lebron, they tend to think my corrections are due to my being a fan/detractor of these guys.

In fact, I like them both about equally. However, I like accurate information more. That's my thing.


No. Your "thing" is crashing any and every thread where Kobe is getting too much props for your liking and derailing it.


Eh, I haven't seen activeverb resort to personal insults/attacks and the vile accusations/name-calling on Kobe that some of his more classless haters relish. If the guy has a difference of opinion, but is civil about it, no big deal. To each his own.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Zillethai
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
this shows you how much espn has helped lebron.....because kobe is way better than lebron......Lebron is good because his body is like shaq's big and strong....but kobe has way more skills than lebron.......I dont think they are even close....im sorry.


Define "skills". Is passing a skill? Rebounding? Is effecient scoring a skill?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kobeandgary
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6233
Location: virginia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Broussard the Kobe hater is just stirring the pot.

I love Kobe but if the Lakers had traded Kobe for Bron in 2007, we'd have 3-4 more rings.


Because Lebron and rings really go together lmao
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Reply with quote
kobeandgary
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6233
Location: virginia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 am    Post subject:

Zillethai wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
this shows you how much espn has helped lebron.....because kobe is way better than lebron......Lebron is good because his body is like shaq's big and strong....but kobe has way more skills than lebron.......I dont think they are even close....im sorry.


Define "skills". Is passing a skill? Rebounding? Is effecient scoring a skill?


Kobe is Hakeem, Lebron is Dwight. One is extremely skilled, the other is freakishly gifted physically.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Reply with quote
GTL
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 8830

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject:

Kobe was well on his way to being the "next Jordan" post 02-03 season...and then the summer of 2004 happened, and they pushed him aside from LBJ. His "mystique" took a huge hit. He was boo'd in every away arena...and I'm sure heard some lewd comments from disgusting fans throughout those games throughout the years. I can only imagine how it would make him feel, which would activate the killer mode, in which he would torch the opposing team to stick it to those lowlife fans.
_________________
Are You A Clippers Fan?
Are You Depressed?
Need Help?
Call Us Now at 1-800 10 10 10
That's 1-800 Won Nothing Won Nothing Won Nothing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Reply with quote
missingkobe
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 08 Apr 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject:

"Majority" I think he meant "VAST majority" prefer Kobe >>>> lebron.

all the years we had him we should be so lucky and grateful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
missingkobe
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 08 Apr 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject:

<< tried to post gif but can't figure it out, ugh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Huey Lewis & The News
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 4643
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject:

missingkobe wrote:
<< tried to post gif but can't figure it out, ugh


you can't embed images but you can definitely copy/paste a url
_________________
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers."
http://forums.lakersground.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13018
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
missingkobe
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 08 Apr 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject:

thanks dog, let's try this:

https://i.imgur.com/e6Xwwuy.gif





Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
missingkobe wrote:
<< tried to post gif but can't figure it out, ugh


you can't embed images but you can definitely copy/paste a url
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
socalsp3
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 2920

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Here’s an orange to orange comparison. Kobe with Shaq, Malone, GP lost to the Pistons in 5. Lebron beat the pistons almost by himself in 5 games.
_________________
The KUZ is Loose!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Batguano
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1230

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:31 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Here’s an orange to orange comparison. Kobe with Shaq, Malone, GP lost to the Pistons in 5. Lebron beat the pistons almost by himself in 5 games.


Kobe (in a season where he came into training camp out of shape because of the sexual assault trial) with an injured Malone and past his prime Payton lost to a prime Pistons teams which is considered one of the GOAT if not THE GOAT defensive teams of all time. (The same team took the Big 3 Spurs in their prime to 7 games the year after)

LeBron beat a past his prime Pistons team that had a gimpy Chris Webber instead of Ben Wallace (the only future HOF player and most important on that team)

But I know context doesn't matter to you guys since it doesn't fit your agenda.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bfc1125roy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:50 am    Post subject:

There's actually a lot of really good arguments as to why Kobe is better than LeBron all time, but they are too deep to be covered by most "soundbite" heavy media outlets today. And they go a lot further than "stats!" or "Mamba Mentality baby!"

I've been working on a very long article detailing some of these points. A lot comes down to context. It's difficult to compare the two players.

But in (very) short, here are some of the key points:

1. Basketball still comes down to scoring and 1 vs 1 defending, more so than rebounds, assists, and help defense. Kobe does edge out LeBron there, on both fronts. Even if LeBron does score more efficiently, I can't say he is the *better* scorer.

2. The ultimate goal of a player in the NBA is to win championships. LeBron has optimized on that goal more than anyone not named Kevin Durant, jumping from contender to contender (up until he came to the Lakers) in a weaker Eastern Conference, while Kobe stuck it out on one team his whole career, actually wasn't contending most of his prime years, and never had more than 1 all star either. If Kobe decided to just jump to the Spurs in 2004, and then to the Celtics in 2008, and so on, he'd probably have 10 rings. Also, people say that Kobe was carried to his first 3 rings, but that's not true. He and Shaq were both primary options for the later 2 (sort of like Batman and Superman instead of Batman and Robin). And in the WCF series which were objectively tougher than the finals, Kobe put up numbers no second option has never sniffed. During the finals, the Lakers were up against the Nets with weaker big men, and Shaq feasted. But if there was a playoffs MVP, it would have been Kobe both those years.

Again, the article will be in much more depth. Will cover all aspects of their games, the offenses they played in, their roles on defense, and I will also do an in depth break down of every advanced statistic, and show you why they are not necessarily the end all be all in these debates. If anyone has any ammo to offer, please send it my way.

I also say this as someone who strongly feels current Lakers fans disrespect LeBron WAY too much.
_________________
(bleep) David Stern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bfc1125roy
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:59 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Here’s an orange to orange comparison. Kobe with Shaq, Malone, GP lost to the Pistons in 5. Lebron beat the pistons almost by himself in 5 games.


Besides the fact those two Pistons teams were much different (no Ben Wallace is the most obvious), this statement clearly shows you didn't watch either of those series at all, let alone understand what was going on.

In the 2004 finals, the Pistons were trying to stop the Kobe-Shaq connection, which was the heart of the Triangle. What they did was pressure the main option, Kobe, and sniff out the passing lanes he wanted to O'Neal, cutting those off. Normally, a second facilitator in the offense could get the ball where it needed to go. But the Lakers primary scoring option and main facilitator (Kobe) were both the same person.

Compound that with Malone being reduced to a spot up shooter, and Payton being a shell of his former self, nobody on the team could do anything. Without the offense getting started, role players like Devean George and Samaki Walker were pretty much useless. It's why Luke Walton helped us win Game 2. Because he was a good passer who got the ball where it needed to be and was able to start up the offense.

Furthermore, Ben Wallace was in his athletic prime during that series, while Shaq was out of shape. He could easily take O'Neal 1 on 1 in the post, without help. Something no center up until that point could claim (not even Mutombo or Olajuwon). This meant the Pistons were free to pressure Kobe on the perimeter. And if he couldn't get the ball to Shaq, and the role players were depending on him to create, his only choice was to try to go against the Detroit defense himself, hence the inefficient scoring.

In the Cavs-Pistons series, it was completely different. Their offense was designed to have LeBron penetrate and kick to shooters. Not the triangle. Without Wallace, there was no rim protection, and they spread the floor with lots of guys that could shoot the ball, and allowed LeBron to penetrate. Different system, different outcome. If you put 2006 Kobe in his place, you'll probably get a similar outcome.

In fact, the only time Kobe was ever in an offense where he was a guard who's job was to penetrate and kick, he put up career numbers (2013 under D'Antoni) - 27/6/6, which was a career high in assists in his 17th season.
_________________
(bleep) David Stern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 12571

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
tony wrote:
It’s a damn shame we didn’t get to see a Kobe vs. LBJ finals in 09 or 10.


Would've been real nice to see Kobe and the crew crush Bron's Cavs instead of the Magic in 09. I was always disappointed the Cavs couldn't get past Orlando that year.


I wish we see Kobe v Bron in 2012... Dirk steamrolled everybody
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ContagiousInspiration
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 6727
Location: Boulder ;)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject:

20 years of Defining Greatness


KOBE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
trablos
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 2884

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject:

bfc1125roy wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Here’s an orange to orange comparison. Kobe with Shaq, Malone, GP lost to the Pistons in 5. Lebron beat the pistons almost by himself in 5 games.


Besides the fact those two Pistons teams were much different (no Ben Wallace is the most obvious), this statement clearly shows you didn't watch either of those series at all, let alone understand what was going on.

In the 2004 finals, the Pistons were trying to stop the Kobe-Shaq connection, which was the heart of the Triangle. What they did was pressure the main option, Kobe, and sniff out the passing lanes he wanted to O'Neal, cutting those off. Normally, a second facilitator in the offense could get the ball where it needed to go. But the Lakers primary scoring option and main facilitator (Kobe) were both the same person.

Compound that with Malone being reduced to a spot up shooter, and Payton being a shell of his former self, nobody on the team could do anything. Without the offense getting started, role players like Devean George and Samaki Walker were pretty much useless. It's why Luke Walton helped us win Game 2. Because he was a good passer who got the ball where it needed to be and was able to start up the offense.

Furthermore, Ben Wallace was in his athletic prime during that series, while Shaq was out of shape. He could easily take O'Neal 1 on 1 in the post, without help. Something no center up until that point could claim (not even Mutombo or Olajuwon). This meant the Pistons were free to pressure Kobe on the perimeter. And if he couldn't get the ball to Shaq, and the role players were depending on him to create, his only choice was to try to go against the Detroit defense himself, hence the inefficient scoring.

In the Cavs-Pistons series, it was completely different. Their offense was designed to have LeBron penetrate and kick to shooters. Not the triangle. Without Wallace, there was no rim protection, and they spread the floor with lots of guys that could shoot the ball, and allowed LeBron to penetrate. Different system, different outcome. If you put 2006 Kobe in his place, you'll probably get a similar outcome.

In fact, the only time Kobe was ever in an offense where he was a guard who's job was to penetrate and kick, he put up career numbers (2013 under D'Antoni) - 27/6/6, which was a career high in assists in his 17th season.

This is the type of nuance I love getting into. Nowadays since most people discussing weren't actually watching back then, all they have to fall back on is stats, which is only a small portion of the bigger picture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 4 of 10
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB