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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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 Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Just to clear one thing up, I'm not even thinking about the Giannis plan, quite frankly don't see that happening. With that out of the way...
Our current salary is somewhere around $123M, it would now stand at $131M had we kept Zu and TB at their current prices, (and assuming no JaVale/Dwight).
Assuming this was the course of action, there may be problems this coming summer, and beyond. Here is what we'd be looking at in July 2020:
LeBron......$39.2M
Davis.........$35.1M (cap hold)
Green........$15.5M
KCP............$12.0M (cap hold)
Bryant.......$8.3M
Zubac........$7.0M
Deng.........$5.0M (cap hit)
Kuzma.......$3.5M
Cook..........$3.0M
Caruso.......$2.7M
THT.............$1.5M
Total...........$132.8M, plus two cap holds, assuming Rondo leaves
Even using the Taxpayer's exception would then put us over the apron, and may hinder or even prevent any future S&T involving Kuzma, a nice option to have.
More immediately, no MLE in this scenario, which could cost us Bradley (or a decent playmaker in free agency) this coming summer.
I fail to see the fascination with keeping two young bigs who are, at best, marginally better than what we have, and do not fit our needs in the immediate future. Investing playing time in players that are likely gone isn't wise from a personnel standpoint, even if it's only G-League minutes.
As for partially guaranteed 2nd/3rd years in a S&T (gotta admit I can't think of a rotation player who has such stipulations in their contract), Boogie wasn't interested, his "chess move" was chasing a ring in Oakland. Signing a player expected to miss two-thirds of the year made no sense for the 2018-19 Lakers, anyway.
Randle and Rondo were practically traded for each other, don't see why either side would agree to a S&T there. |
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cencio_999
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Joined: 12 Nov 2019
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:31 am Post subject: |
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It's about mismanagment or wasting of assets rather than keeping players.
DeAngelo, T. bryant, julius, zu, svi (with attached a 2nd round as well), wagner, bonga, is an impressive list considering just 3 years. |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| cencio_999 wrote: | It's about mismanagment or wasting of assets rather than keeping players.
DeAngelo, T. bryant, julius, zu, svi (with attached a 2nd round as well), wagner, bonga, is an impressive list considering just 3 years. |
Exactly!
I understood the DLo deal tho cause we HAD to do that to at least get off of one of MozDeng’s albatross deals. Even if we stretched both players, the dead cap hit would be around 14m for 5 years. I guess we could have dropped that amount some like we did with Deng, but essentially if you stretch waived both players, you don’t have the 35% max slot for Bron to come into...and even tho he cane alone, you definitely can’t assure him that we could get him a running mate via cap space had all we did was stretch MozDeng. So the DLo trade and even the JC/Nance trade made sense to me. But the Cavs 1st round pick we got from the Jc/Nance deal was Moe and he pretty much got dumped for nothing...so now in retrospect, what a poor way to use all those assets.
LD01, I think you’re missing the point that I’m trying to make and hopefully with cencio999’s assist, you can see that this really has nothing to do with keeping our young boys on blown up deals...this is about getting draft capital or future cheap assets in return for their loss. Cause as of right now, we don’t have much of anything to show for it.
Btw: if you use the MLE, you can’t S&t for a player. We can still send Kuz out via that route, but we can’t bring anybody in if we intend on using the MLE. Also next summer, we have two options: if our 2 year deal players all decide to opt out if their player options, we can renounce their cap holds and go the route of a team that has cap space OR we can retain all those players and/or their cap holds and operate as a team that is cap-strapped. Either route we choose, we potentially have 12-15m of potential cap to play with via space and/or exceptions.
The hard cap (projected apron to be 148m) has no bearing on us next summer unless we intend to receive a S&t’d player. If that happens, we are restricted from using the biannual and obviously the non-tax payer MLE.
At the very worst, our current salary projections have us possibly paying the luxury tax (projected threshold to be 142m) and if that’s the case, then we are only really in danger of losing the non-tax payer MLE of about 10m. Instead we’ll have tax payer MLE projected to be at about 6m.
Anyways tl;dr: the FO has been consistently pissing away assets unnecessarily aka what cencio999 said and it’s going to hurt us in future trade talks and in rounding out a balanced roster around our star duo.
#ProtectYourStarsAkaOurTitleHopes |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Anyways tl;dr: the FO has been consistently pissing away assets unnecessarily aka what cencio999 said and it’s going to hurt us in future trade talks and in rounding out a balanced roster around our star duo.
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There's a salary cap. You cannot add LeBron & Anthony Davis ($64.5 million combined, with AD commanding a raise this summer), while retaining DLO ($27.3 MM), Randle ($18 MM), BI ($7.3 MM, with a raise coming) and Lonzo (8.7 MM).
You cannot P&M about the return they got on the above assets, even Randle (who garnered zero assets for NOLA, as well, indicating a soft-to-non-existent market for him).
If you want to whine about what they got for Svi, Zu, Bonga, etc., you have to remember that the asset they were moved for was the cap space needed to pair LeBron with AD.
Which makes more sense:
Zubac's 8.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.0 blocks @ $7.3 million?
or
Dwight/JaVale's combined 14.0 points, 12.6 rebounds, 3.0 blocks @ $5.6 million?
That's the reality - the Lakers are getting better, cheaper production at C while adding AD.
You could stack ALL of the "young 'uns" going back to Clarkson and their aggregate impact is not equal to AD. When you throw LBJ into the mix, the whining about "not getting two #2's for Randle" just looks even more absurd.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144468
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Anyways tl;dr: the FO has been consistently pissing away assets unnecessarily aka what cencio999 said and it’s going to hurt us in future trade talks and in rounding out a balanced roster around our star duo.
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There's a salary cap. You cannot add LeBron & Anthony Davis ($64.5 million combined, with AD commanding a raise this summer), while retaining DLO ($27.3 MM), Randle ($18 MM), BI ($7.3 MM, with a raise coming) and Lonzo (8.7 MM).
You cannot P&M about the return they got on the above assets, even Randle (who garnered zero assets for NOLA, as well, indicating a soft-to-non-existent market for him).
If you want to whine about what they got for Svi, Zu, Bonga, etc., you have to remember that the asset they were moved for was the cap space needed to pair LeBron with AD.
Which makes more sense:
Zubac's 8.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.0 blocks @ $7.3 million?
or
Dwight/JaVale's combined 14.0 points, 12.6 rebounds, 3.0 blocks @ $5.6 million?
That's the reality - the Lakers are getting better, cheaper production at C while adding AD.
You could stack ALL of the "young 'uns" going back to Clarkson and their aggregate impact is not equal to AD. When you throw LBJ into the mix, the whining about "not getting two #2's for Randle" just looks even more absurd. |
Tell me this...do draft & stash (aka future 1st round player rights) count against our cap this year? Do future 2nds?
We got neither for Jules who was a #7 overall pick. (bleep), you know that deadcap hit if 5m for Deng...yeah that could have been wiped clean if Jukes was used to dump Deng’s salary, no different that DLo used for Moz’s. Oh and suddenly we have 5m in space to absorb AD’s trade kicker to extend him to max money immediately after the trade. Instead we wait? Also that Wiz package now doesn’t need to occur to open up a max slot. But (bleep), turns out we didn’t even need to have AD waive his kicker dump those assets into the Wiz anyways.
And while we’re on Jules, how were we going to open up max cap space for Bron’s running mate? We either were setup to take in Paula at a slight haircut (28m vs 30m) to pair with his fellow Mintz client, Jules...or we renounce Jules to get that space to max out Paula. Either way, you coulda had 2 max guys along with Jules (and stretching Deng) if you wanted to. But those Mintz (bleep) didn’t want to cooperate.
The thing about Zu and TH is that they were about 1.5m in a cap hold vs Jules’s 12.4m cap hold. So prematurely renouncing them (or trading them) to gain space is absurd. How about we have that max guy commit to us first before we just toss away assets for nothing.
Lastly, I’m no cap expert, but I certainly am an enthusiast. If you’re going to come at me with cap related info and haven’t completely done the homework, I’m gonna know haha.
For instance, that cap space we hoarded for 2 years and dropped assets left and right for, wasn’t needed for the AD trade. We could have traded AD into our cap space to spare some if the kiddies but didn’t. We could have waited on the AD trade to finalize 30 days after signing the #4 pick to aggregate an additional 7.1m in the trade to spare some of our kiddies, but didn’t. Instead, Griff held us over a barrel for a guy that literally had his pops force his kid here instead of Boston. (bleep), Griff even spared his owner from having to pay AD’s 4.1m trade kicker, which would have unlocked his max extension that we could immediately offer dude after the trade....but instead we now must wait for the circus next summer.
This summer could have gone a whole lot differently but instead we hoarded cap space for Danny Green and Kcp (who we already had bird rights to by pass the cap for)....if anything, that’s absurd! |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
You can’t offer any of those picks in trades this year and can only trade them once we make the pick (which means it loses value to the team trading for it).
We have no control over trading our future picks till 2027 (and if Griff is nice, then 2026). |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144468
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
And how do those picks help us fill holes on our win now team?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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cyborgspider
Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Sep 2017
Posts: 930
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
"Hey, i haven't gone to LakersGround in a few months, surely there's a positive vibe with the team in First Place and 20 games over 500 on New Years Day!"
There is no future
(logs off for another seven months)
_________________
Lakers Picks The Next Six Years:
2020 - Own
2021 - Own (likely)
2022 - New Orleans
2023 - Own or New Orleans' Pick
2024 - Own (Likely)
2025 - New Orleans |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
You can’t offer any of those picks in trades this year and can only trade them once we make the pick (which means it loses value to the team trading for it).
We have no control over trading our future picks till 2027 (and if Griff is nice, then 2026). |
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | And how do those picks help us fill holes on our win now team? |
They can trade the 2020 #1 pick now.
The 2019 draft has passed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 pick as being traded "in consecutive years" because it's not a future pick. The 2021 pick is unlikely to be conveyed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 #1, either.
After the 2020 draft, they can trade the 2021 #1 pick.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
You can’t offer any of those picks in trades this year and can only trade them once we make the pick (which means it loses value to the team trading for it).
We have no control over trading our future picks till 2027 (and if Griff is nice, then 2026). |
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | And how do those picks help us fill holes on our win now team? |
They can trade the 2020 #1 pick now.
The 2019 draft has passed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 pick as being traded "in consecutive years" because it's not a future pick. The 2021 pick is unlikely to be conveyed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 #1, either.
After the 2020 draft, they can trade the 2021 #1 pick. |
No they can't.
If the 2021 pick does convey, its classified as a future pick that is being traded. You can't trade your own future 1st in consecutive years. So till we know the fate of that 2021 pick (which is May of 2021 during the draft order), you can't trade our 2020 1st.
Same goes for the 2021 1st. If it doesn't convey, we can trade it AFTER the pick is made, cause then the 2022 pick will be the Pels and we can't trade consecutive picks. Also, picks are said to lose value once picked and then traded, which is why the Pels were pushing sooooo hard to get the AD trade (which involved the #4 pick) to occur before the draft.
Per Woj before the AD trade was agreed upon in June '19:
| Quote: | Griffin has offered teams no firm timetable on needing a completed deal, but he has indicated that he prefers the acquisition of 2019 draft picks be completed days prior to the June 20 event in Brooklyn, league sources said. This gives the Pelicans a chance to meet and more closely examine draft candidates slotted in the vicinity of picks potentially traded to New Orleans.
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So that's what teams want when trading for future 1sts....they want that pick in hand before the draft....not after the draft pick is made.
As for the 2022 1st, even if the Pels get our top 8 2021 pick, we can't trade the 2022 1st since the Pels can choose to swap our 2023 1st with theirs...essentially making it consecutive traded picks if they do end up swapping with us. So the fate of our 2022 1st is left undecided till after the pick is made.
And so on and so on till 2024 where if the Pels choose that 1st round pick, then we're in the clear to trade our 2026 future 1st, since we can't trade our 2025 1st with it being in a consecutive year. And if Griff decides to dick us around for one more year by deferring the pick to 2025, then we can't trade any future 1sts till 2027.
So yeah, we can't trade our 2020 1st till AFTER the pick is made and it loses some value as a result. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | cencio_999 wrote: | It's about mismanagment or wasting of assets rather than keeping players.
DeAngelo, T. bryant, julius, zu, svi (with attached a 2nd round as well), wagner, bonga, is an impressive list considering just 3 years. |
Exactly!
I understood the DLo deal tho cause we HAD to do that to at least get off of one of MozDeng’s albatross deals. Even if we stretched both players, the dead cap hit would be around 14m for 5 years. I guess we could have dropped that amount some like we did with Deng, but essentially if you stretch waived both players, you don’t have the 35% max slot for Bron to come into...and even tho he cane alone, you definitely can’t assure him that we could get him a running mate via cap space had all we did was stretch MozDeng. So the DLo trade and even the JC/Nance trade made sense to me. But the Cavs 1st round pick we got from the Jc/Nance deal was Moe and he pretty much got dumped for nothing...so now in retrospect, what a poor way to use all those assets. |
Nance was dealt to dump JC as well, a contract we needed off our books. The draft pick, while ultimately dumped to make space for a guy who didn't sign, did give us flexibility by satisfying the Stepien Rule.
And while Mo/Bonga were given away to the Wiz, waiting until Kawhi made his decision could make them harder to move, possibly costing us future assets. (It's not like we were trading two young, starting caliber players to a talent-starved expansion team for 2nd round pick swaps, a la the '96 offseason).
They were brought in, along with Svi and later Bullock, in hopes one of them could become a part of our future (or at least the AD package), that summer, if not at the deadline. Svi struggled and Bullock was inconsistent, Bonga is a long-term project, and Mo's defense was not NBA-level. How do we turn these into assets, when in win-now mode?
| Quote: | | Btw: if you use the MLE, you can’t S&t for a player. We can still send Kuz out via that route, but we can’t bring anybody in if we intend on using the MLE. |
I was proposing we use the MLE this offseason. Don't know what cap projections would have us over $142M before using the MLE (KCP aint playing that great).
Then in the '21 offseason, perhaps a S&T deal could be done with Kuzma, salary cap willing. The cap is expected to go up a bit in '21, so we may be able to work a deal under the apron, probably a multi-team trade. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144468
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
You can’t offer any of those picks in trades this year and can only trade them once we make the pick (which means it loses value to the team trading for it).
We have no control over trading our future picks till 2027 (and if Griff is nice, then 2026). |
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | And how do those picks help us fill holes on our win now team? |
They can trade the 2020 #1 pick now.
The 2019 draft has passed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 pick as being traded "in consecutive years" because it's not a future pick. The 2021 pick is unlikely to be conveyed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 #1, either.
After the 2020 draft, they can trade the 2021 #1 pick. |
No they can't.
If the 2021 pick does convey, its classified as a future pick that is being traded. You can't trade your own future 1st in consecutive years. So till we know the fate of that 2021 pick (which is May of 2021 during the draft order), you can't trade our 2020 1st. |
Yes, they can.
The 2022 pick is a potential SWAP - not a loss - so the Lakers will have a pick in 22.
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
BS, as usual.
Lakers have:
2020 1st Round pick
2021 1st Round pick (unless it is in the top 8)
2022 1st Round pick |
You can’t offer any of those picks in trades this year and can only trade them once we make the pick (which means it loses value to the team trading for it).
We have no control over trading our future picks till 2027 (and if Griff is nice, then 2026). |
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | And how do those picks help us fill holes on our win now team? |
They can trade the 2020 #1 pick now.
The 2019 draft has passed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 pick as being traded "in consecutive years" because it's not a future pick. The 2021 pick is unlikely to be conveyed, so it doesn't affect the 2020 #1, either.
After the 2020 draft, they can trade the 2021 #1 pick. |
No they can't.
If the 2021 pick does convey, its classified as a future pick that is being traded. You can't trade your own future 1st in consecutive years. So till we know the fate of that 2021 pick (which is May of 2021 during the draft order), you can't trade our 2020 1st. |
Yes, they can.
The 2022 pick is a potential SWAP - not a loss - so the Lakers will have a pick in 22. |
Haha. No, they can’t.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/XV74ZvGRXcZdS/source.gif
I think you’re misunderstanding me. We have no control over trading our own future 1sts till 2026 at the very earliest. We can make the picks and trade them after the draft, but trading them as future picks (during the season and up to that season’s trade deadline) is a no-go.
If Nawlins gets our 2021 1st (which means it went lottery), we will have our 2022 1st but can’t trade it cause if Nawlins decides to swap their 2023 1st with ours, then that 2023 pick becomes a traded 1st of our own and you can’t trade your own future picks in consecutive years via the Stepien rule.
So again, we have to make the pick during the 2022 draft and trade it AFTER the draft (which means some of the value of that pick is lost for the receiving team, cause they didn’t make the pick). |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: |
If Nawlins gets our 2021 1st (which means it went lottery), we will have our 2022 1st but can’t trade it cause if Nawlins decides to swap their 2023 1st with ours, then that 2023 pick becomes a traded 1st of our own and you can’t trade your own future picks in consecutive years via the Stepien rule.
So again, we have to make the pick during the 2022 draft and trade it AFTER the draft (which means some of the value of that pick is lost for the receiving team, cause they didn’t make the pick). |
You can trade 1st Round Picks in consecutive drafts as long as you have another 1st Rounder.
If we SWAP picks, we trade one and acquire another one.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/four-common-misconceptions-about-nba-trades.html
| Quote: | Misconception #4: Teams can’t trade away first-round picks in consecutive years.
The Ted Stepien Rule, which we described in an updated glossary entry last month, is another complicated rule that is often misinterpreted. The rule prevents a team from leaving itself without first-round picks in back-to-back future seasons. However, a team can still trade its first-round pick every year, if it so desires.
Consider the Wizards. A year ago, Washington traded its 2017 first-round pick in a deadline deal for Bojan Bogdanovic. Does that mean the Wizards can’t trade their 2018 first-rounder? Nope. As soon as the 2017 draft passed, that 2018 first-rounder once again became trade-eligible, since Washington still has its 2019 pick. Trading the 2018 first-round selection now wouldn’t leave the team without first-rounders in consecutive future seasons, so it doesn’t violate the Stepien rule.
The rule also technically does allow a team to trade away its own first-round picks in consecutive future seasons as long as the team has acquired at least one first-round pick from another club in either of those two years. For instance, the Cavaliers have already traded away their 2019 first-rounder, but they could still trade away their 2018 first-round pick, since they’re owed the Nets‘ first-rounder in 2018. The Stepien rule would only block Cleveland from trading both of its 2018 first-rounders without securing another first-round pick for ’18 or ’19 in the process. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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2020 - We don't know for sure if we have a pick in 2021, so this can't be dealt until after it's used.
2021 - we only know this is ours once we clinch our playoff berth in 2021, or until the draft lottery. This restricts the 2020 pick. And when we do secure this pick, the 2022 pick is lost.
2022 - probably the first pick that will transfer. Can't trade it for that reason.
2023 - pick swap. We definitely have a first this year, as of now.
2024 - belongs to NO, with the Pels having discretion over whether it transfers to 2025. Let's say this happens, the pick is deferred to 2025, then we could only trade our 2026 pick once the '25-'26 season begins.
Now, if a team agreed to accept a potential 2021 pick swap from us that could be deferred to 2022 or 2023 (where we would get the lowest of the three picks), I believe that could be an asset, for the little bit it's worth. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | 2020 - We don't know for sure if we have a pick in 2021, so this can't be dealt until after it's used.
2021 - we only know this is ours once we clinch our playoff berth in 2021, or until the draft lottery. This restricts the 2020 pick. And when we do secure this pick, the 2022 pick is lost.
2022 - probably the first pick that will transfer. Can't trade it for that reason.
2023 - pick swap. We definitely have a first this year, as of now.
2024 - belongs to NO, with the Pels having discretion over whether it transfers to 2025. Let's say this happens, the pick is deferred to 2025, then we could only trade our 2026 pick once the '25-'26 season begins.
Now, if a team agreed to accept a potential 2021 pick swap from us that could be deferred to 2022 or 2023 (where we would get the lowest of the three picks), I believe that could be an asset, for the little bit it's worth. |
MY BAD . . .
I forgot that the 2021 pick was conditioned to 2022.
Apologies to Vasashi17+, as well.
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement. |
Butler was a free agent, looking to get out of Philadelphia. Miami needed a S&T to acquire him, but if the Sixers asked for too much, the deal would break down. Butler could've been a Knick, or Philly could've ended up with nothing, if Miami successfully dumped Dragic, Olynyk, and Whiteside after stretching Ryan Anderson.
We gave up Marc Gasol and a couple 1sts (and our 2007 1st round pick) for Pau and a 2nd. A decent haul after Memphis' talks with the Bulls broke down (they wouldn't include Nocioni with Noah). A great deal, but cash-strapped small market Memphis knew what they were doing. They used the exception from this trade to acquire Zach Randolph, and the Grindhouse was born.
PG was acquired for 5 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, in addition to SGA, who has three years on his rookie deal, and Gallinari. That's a lot.
Anthony Davis is the only player who, after being traded, has played like an MVP. The price was Ball, Hart, and Ingram, plus the #4 pick, two 1sts and a swap. It's steep, but Ainge was breathing down our necks, and we were offering three players coming off surgeries. |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement. |
Butler was a free agent, looking to get out of Philadelphia. Miami needed a S&T to acquire him, but if the Sixers asked for too much, the deal would break down. Butler could've been a Knick, or Philly could've ended up with nothing, if Miami successfully dumped Dragic, Olynyk, and Whiteside after stretching Ryan Anderson.
We gave up Marc Gasol and a couple 1sts (and our 2007 1st round pick) for Pau and a 2nd. A decent haul after Memphis' talks with the Bulls broke down (they wouldn't include Nocioni with Noah). A great deal, but cash-strapped small market Memphis knew what they were doing. They used the exception from this trade to acquire Zach Randolph, and the Grindhouse was born.
PG was acquired for 5 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, in addition to SGA, who has three years on his rookie deal, and Gallinari. That's a lot.
Anthony Davis is the only player who, after being traded, has played like an MVP. The price was Ball, Hart, and Ingram, plus the #4 pick, two 1sts and a swap. It's steep, but Ainge was breathing down our necks, and we were offering three players coming off surgeries. |
I think you also have to include Wagner, Bonga, a 2nd and the 2nd we owe the 76ers for Bonga in the deal because Rob didn't make the trade with the condition that it was done after the we signed the first round pick.
AD is also the only player that is a FA after 1 year as well. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23265
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement. |
What Miami gave up for butler? Really man? He was a free agent, and Miami didn’t need to give up anything to get him. They did it so they can build a better team
Clippers give up 5 first round picks plus 2 swaps and SGA for Paul George who is 30. I guess you think their future is bright? Those 2022, 2024, 2026 unprotected picks are looking delicious for OKC now, not to mention the swap
Lakers gave up Brandon Ingram (who is playing at a high level this season), Lonzo ball (so so player), Hart ( journeyman) no 4 pick (Lakers had no good options at number 4 anyways). 2 more first round picks and 1 swap
On top of all that, AD >PG> JB
Unless we manage to keep BI(not possible), none of the other players could help this team much |
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Right, we have holes on this roster, how do we fill them? We don’t since we have given all future assets away. Piss poor planning and a FO way over their heads. Enjoy this ride, there is no future. |
 every win this team gets must feel like a stake in your heart. Lakers pushed all in on a superstar big who is just about to enter his prime and have built a team that can win a ring this season. We aren’t the overwhelming favorites like the Warriors in previous seasons or the LeBron Heat, but we are certainly just as likely to win the ring as any of the other favorites. The FO did their best with the wreckage Magic left, and so far look to have done a fine job. They’ve made a decent gamble to match the Celtics’ ring total, with a chance to even surpass them if things break just right for us the next couple of seasons. Just need to follow through and make sure we ink Davis for an extension the offseason after this upcoming one after Davis inevitably opts out and signs a 1+1 deal to qualify for the ten year max in 2021, and that depends mostly on LeBron and AD staying healthy. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | I think you also have to include Wagner, Bonga, a 2nd and the 2nd we owe the 76ers for Bonga in the deal because Rob didn't make the trade with the condition that it was done after the we signed the first round pick.
AD is also the only player that is a FA after 1 year as well. |
Wagner and Bonga and a 2nd round pick were dealt to free up a near-max slot for Kawhi, that is separate. The 2nd traded for Bonga in 2018 got us Bonga, so you can't count them both.
Had Rob demanded the deal be delayed until later in the month, three teams would have to wait until the 27th of July to finalize the deal and evaluate their draft picks, something New Orleans and Atlanta did not want to do.
Furthermore, New Orleans would have to put the Solomon Hill salary dump, as well as their free agency, on hold. They would want added compensation for this. NO would also lose capspace, and there may have been some issues in trading the signed #4 pick to Atlanta for their signed #8 pick, with the salary differences.
It was never as simple as Rob asking to delay the trade. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | We got neither for Jules who was a #7 overall pick. (bleep), you know that deadcap hit if 5m for Deng...yeah that could have been wiped clean if Jukes was used to dump Deng’s salary, no different that DLo used for Moz’s. |
WOW...Randle used to dump Deng. No different from DLo for Moz...wow.
I, too, would think Rob was an idiot, if I thought ANY NBA TEAM would CONSIDER such a RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION. We were offered a 2nd rounder and $5M in dead salary for Randle in February of 2018. In February 2018, Deng was worth 2 years and MINUS $36.5 million dollars. There was no moving Deng, absolute pipe dream.
| Quote: | | Oh and suddenly we have 5m in space to absorb AD’s trade kicker to extend him to max money immediately after the trade. Instead we wait? |
I commend you on cap knowledge, yours definitely exceeds mine. But your player valuations are off, and you rarely consider the human variables. For instance, come this summer, AD is looking at his options. That was always a given.
As you've repeatedly reminded us all, this team is one injury away from being first-round playoff fodder. AD isn't going to sign a long term, or even short term extension if your injury fears come true (or if Max/Skip are right and Kawhi owns LeBron).
| Quote: | | And while we’re on Jules, how were we going to open up max cap space for Bron’s running mate? We either were setup to take in Paula at a slight haircut (28m vs 30m) to pair with his fellow Mintz client, Jules...or we renounce Jules to get that space to max out Paula. Either way, you coulda had 2 max guys along with Jules (and stretching Deng) if you wanted to. But those Mintz (bleep) didn’t want to cooperate. |
As you know, stretching Deng in the summer of 2018 would keep him on our books for five years, and if he didn't agree to the buyout at that time, that's potentially a $7.3M cap hit per year.
Signing Jules for what he wanted, then putting him next to PG/Ingram/LeBron would not help his trade value. He needs touches, and would be coming off the bench while battling Kuz for minutes.
| Quote: | | We could have traded AD into our cap space to spare some if the kiddies but didn’t. |
Wagner and Bonga? Really? Zu and TB would not get the playing time they needed going forward to prove their worth, even if we retained their cap holds and matched their offers. They'd be far more likely to hurt our cap in the near future than even serve as non-negative salary ballast. And we did use about $9M of our cap space to absorb AD's contract.
| Quote: | | We could have waited on the AD trade to finalize 30 days after signing the #4 pick to aggregate an additional 7.1m in the trade to spare some of our kiddies, but didn’t. |
Even Woj backed off that story, and he was the guy pushing that narrative in the first place.
| Quote: | | Instead, Griff held us over a barrel for a guy that literally had his pops force his kid here instead of Boston. |
Griffin was going to take the best deal available. Delaying the deal until the 27th may have changed which deal that was. What a player's dad thinks may change, or not matter, if his son ends up winning Finals MVP there and seems to have a bright future with the roster around him.
(BTW we have the Rose Rule to thank for AD not being traded to Boston last February)
| Quote: | | This summer could have gone a whole lot differently but instead we hoarded cap space for Danny Green and Kcp (who we already had bird rights to by pass the cap for)....if anything, that’s absurd! |
I see what you're getting at, but there was no way to get every team involved to wait until the 27th. Those GMs get paid to do their jobs, too. KCP's Bird Rights came with a cap hold, which I believe was greater than the amount he signed for. |
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