|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
 Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
The way for the Lakers to get younger and better while also having a win now situation with limited draft flexibility/potential is the small scale pick ups.
Kuzma was a pick up at 27 in the draft.
So you scout players you like, and you sign them. You develop them, and you do no expect them to give you major minutes or even in the rotation right away.
The Lakers should be looking at guys who will be quality role players in 1-2 years, maybe even 2-3. That is how they should approach the draft right now. It is not hard to buy yourself a 2nd round pick. It is not that hard to even trade for a late 1st round pick. And we will be drafting this year in likely the 28-29 range.
Look at some pick ups the Lakers have that are valuable. Without even having a high draft pick or even own draft pick, both came via pick up or a trading for a low 1st round pick.
1) Kyle Kuzma - Now a NBA rotation guy, 6th man, on a 28-7 team. 12 ppg. Still could get a bit better. Made Team USA roster. He was a late 1st round pick.
2) Alex Caruso - Now a NBA rotation guy, backup guard on a 28-7 team. Major advanced stats impact. Great +/-. Good defender. Can drive and finish. Still working on the 3 ball, but I don't think he will ever be a starter, but was basically a guy we scouted, developed in the G league and was undrafted.
We need more pickups like this over the next 6-12 months. Dunno about THT. But we should develop him, same way. Lets see what THT gives us next training camp and season. But this is the Spurs way, and we should adopt it, because IMO we have had much more success with these sort of pick ups than we did with high picks like Russell, Ball, Ingram. Those guys did not thrive as coming in with big roles and being expected to be big time starters and contributors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | The way for the Lakers to get younger and better while also having a win now situation with limited draft flexibility/potential is the small scale pick ups.
Kuzma was a pick up at 27 in the draft.
So you scout players you like, and you sign them. You develop them, and you do no expect them to give you major minutes or even in the rotation right away.
The Lakers should be looking at guys who will be quality role players in 1-2 years, maybe even 2-3. That is how they should approach the draft right now. It is not hard to buy yourself a 2nd round pick. It is not that hard to even trade for a late 1st round pick. And we will be drafting this year in likely the 28-29 range.
Look at some pick ups the Lakers have that are valuable. Without even having a high draft pick or even own draft pick, both came via pick up or a trading for a low 1st round pick.
1) Kyle Kuzma - Now a NBA rotation guy, 6th man, on a 28-7 team. 12 ppg. Still could get a bit better. Made Team USA roster. He was a late 1st round pick.
2) Alex Caruso - Now a NBA rotation guy, backup guard on a 28-7 team. Major advanced stats impact. Great +/-. Good defender. Can drive and finish. Still working on the 3 ball, but I don't think he will ever be a starter, but was basically a guy we scouted, developed in the G league and was undrafted.
We need more pickups like this over the next 6-12 months. Dunno about THT. But we should develop him, same way. Lets see what THT gives us next training camp and season. But this is the Spurs way, and we should adopt it, because IMO we have had much more success with these sort of pick ups than we did with high picks like Russell, Ball, Ingram. Those guys did not thrive as coming in with big roles and being expected to be big time starters and contributors. |
From a strategy perspective, this makes the most sense. We have our contending roster built, now we need to think ahead and develop guys who can fit in an AD-led roster over the next 7 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement. |
Butler was a free agent, looking to get out of Philadelphia. Miami needed a S&T to acquire him, but if the Sixers asked for too much, the deal would break down. Butler could've been a Knick, or Philly could've ended up with nothing, if Miami successfully dumped Dragic, Olynyk, and Whiteside after stretching Ryan Anderson.
We gave up Marc Gasol and a couple 1sts (and our 2007 1st round pick) for Pau and a 2nd. A decent haul after Memphis' talks with the Bulls broke down (they wouldn't include Nocioni with Noah). A great deal, but cash-strapped small market Memphis knew what they were doing. They used the exception from this trade to acquire Zach Randolph, and the Grindhouse was born.
PG was acquired for 5 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, in addition to SGA, who has three years on his rookie deal, and Gallinari. That's a lot.
Anthony Davis is the only player who, after being traded, has played like an MVP. The price was Ball, Hart, and Ingram, plus the #4 pick, two 1sts and a swap. It's steep, but Ainge was breathing down our necks, and we were offering three players coming off surgeries. |
Ainge wasn’t breathing down our necks, NO was only talking to the Lakers. We were bidding against ourselves. Defend that all you want but it is what happened. You conveniently left out that NO owns our draft for more than half a decade, I am sure that was intentional. We offered $20,000 for a car whose asking price was $15,000. Now we can’t beat the good teams in the league and have to play our all stars in the 4th to beat the bad teams in the league. With our offseason MLE being our chance to improve due to the crappy assets Pelinka left us with. We overpaid big time and considering the cumulative lack of experience in management, that is no shock.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | The way for the Lakers to get younger and better while also having a win now situation with limited draft flexibility/potential is the small scale pick ups.
Kuzma was a pick up at 27 in the draft.
So you scout players you like, and you sign them. You develop them, and you do no expect them to give you major minutes or even in the rotation right away.
The Lakers should be looking at guys who will be quality role players in 1-2 years, maybe even 2-3. That is how they should approach the draft right now. It is not hard to buy yourself a 2nd round pick. It is not that hard to even trade for a late 1st round pick. And we will be drafting this year in likely the 28-29 range.
Look at some pick ups the Lakers have that are valuable. Without even having a high draft pick or even own draft pick, both came via pick up or a trading for a low 1st round pick.
1) Kyle Kuzma - Now a NBA rotation guy, 6th man, on a 28-7 team. 12 ppg. Still could get a bit better. Made Team USA roster. He was a late 1st round pick.
2) Alex Caruso - Now a NBA rotation guy, backup guard on a 28-7 team. Major advanced stats impact. Great +/-. Good defender. Can drive and finish. Still working on the 3 ball, but I don't think he will ever be a starter, but was basically a guy we scouted, developed in the G league and was undrafted.
We need more pickups like this over the next 6-12 months. Dunno about THT. But we should develop him, same way. Lets see what THT gives us next training camp and season. But this is the Spurs way, and we should adopt it, because IMO we have had much more success with these sort of pick ups than we did with high picks like Russell, Ball, Ingram. Those guys did not thrive as coming in with big roles and being expected to be big time starters and contributors. |
What assets do we have to get a first round pick? Who wants what we have to offer?
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | 2020 - We don't know for sure if we have a pick in 2021, so this can't be dealt until after it's used.
2021 - we only know this is ours once we clinch our playoff berth in 2021, or until the draft lottery. This restricts the 2020 pick. And when we do secure this pick, the 2022 pick is lost.
2022 - probably the first pick that will transfer. Can't trade it for that reason.
2023 - pick swap. We definitely have a first this year, as of now.
2024 - belongs to NO, with the Pels having discretion over whether it transfers to 2025. Let's say this happens, the pick is deferred to 2025, then we could only trade our 2026 pick once the '25-'26 season begins.
Now, if a team agreed to accept a potential 2021 pick swap from us that could be deferred to 2022 or 2023 (where we would get the lowest of the three picks), I believe that could be an asset, for the little bit it's worth. |
MY BAD . . .
I forgot that the 2021 pick was conditioned to 2022.
Apologies to Vasashi17+, as well. |
No the error is mine sir. We can trade our 2022 1st after May 2021 when the draft order is set and we know the pick will either defer to 2022 or not.
The problem with that scenario tho is that our 2020/21 season went to (bleep). If we’re allowed to keep our 2022 1st then that means our 2021 1st went lottery and we missed the playoffs. That would be our “best” case scenario in trading one of our future 1sts before 2026 when we are in the clear of the Oejs finally holding control to our draft picks.
I’m sure none of us would want that type of scenario particularly in year 1 of AD re-upping with us. Of course, it could be much worse in that AD leaves us high and dry next summer and that’s the reason our 2021 1st goes lottery...yikes!
LD01: I’ll address your post later when I got more time to address each of your points. Btw, I appreciate the discussion fellas! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We need the MLE next offseason. And let me repeat, I was all for trading for AD, I wanted the FO to trade for PG when he was on the trade market. In a win now situation, which is what we have with Lebron, I prefer PG over AD. I was complaining that trying to rebuild with Lebron and the young players was a horrible idea. So I have no issue with trading our youth for AD, my only problem is in the execution. We gave up way too much. Look at what the Clippers gave up for PG, what Miami gave up for Butler, even what we gave up for Pau. Pelinka got rolled and it compromises improvement. |
Butler was a free agent, looking to get out of Philadelphia. Miami needed a S&T to acquire him, but if the Sixers asked for too much, the deal would break down. Butler could've been a Knick, or Philly could've ended up with nothing, if Miami successfully dumped Dragic, Olynyk, and Whiteside after stretching Ryan Anderson.
We gave up Marc Gasol and a couple 1sts (and our 2007 1st round pick) for Pau and a 2nd. A decent haul after Memphis' talks with the Bulls broke down (they wouldn't include Nocioni with Noah). A great deal, but cash-strapped small market Memphis knew what they were doing. They used the exception from this trade to acquire Zach Randolph, and the Grindhouse was born.
PG was acquired for 5 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps, in addition to SGA, who has three years on his rookie deal, and Gallinari. That's a lot.
Anthony Davis is the only player who, after being traded, has played like an MVP. The price was Ball, Hart, and Ingram, plus the #4 pick, two 1sts and a swap. It's steep, but Ainge was breathing down our necks, and we were offering three players coming off surgeries. |
Ainge wasn’t breathing down our necks, NO was only talking to the Lakers. We were bidding against ourselves. Defend that all you want but it is what happened. You conveniently left out that NO owns our draft for more than half a decade, I am sure that was intentional. We offered $20,000 for a car whose asking price was $15,000. Now we can’t beat the good teams in the league and have to play our all stars in the 4th to beat the bad teams in the league. With our offseason MLE being our chance to improve due to the crappy assets Pelinka left us with. We overpaid big time and considering the cumulative lack of experience in management, that is no shock. |
We have 2 1sts and a swap headed to New Orleans this decade. That is about half of just more than half a decade, to be exact. Not as bad as the Nash trade could've been.
Do you actually believe that Griffin and Ainge didn't talk about a potential trade after having worked together for years?
If the Lakers pulled Ingram off the table, or even played hardball with a pick after withholding Kuzma, the trade would collapse. Boston had/still has draft picks and could've executed a deal on July 6th. Even the Clippers could put together a package that could easily surpass ours, sans Ingram.
BTW, we've only been having trouble holding leads since Rondo's hamstring injury, but of course the narrative is that Rondo was this bad all year. Bradley has been disappointing as a playmaker, as has Caruso. Two minor tweaks will complete the roster. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don’t believe that Griffin and Ainge were talking, Ainge had made it known he wouldn’t include Tatum and Griffin knew he could get what he wanted from Pelinka.
As for free and clear first round picks, we have 2020 and 2025.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | I don’t believe that Griffin and Ainge were talking, Ainge had made it known he wouldn’t include Tatum and Griffin knew he could get what he wanted from Pelinka.
As for free and clear first round picks, we have 2020 and 2025. |
Which means we have more than the MLE this off season.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StoicChalice392
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1724
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Magic is on another vacation with Cookie. Now they're in St Lucia. The guy is living the life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | I don’t believe that Griffin and Ainge were talking, Ainge had made it known he wouldn’t include Tatum and Griffin knew he could get what he wanted from Pelinka.
As for free and clear first round picks, we have 2020 and 2025. |
Which means we have more than the MLE this off season. |
Right, we are going to draft a player who will step in and contribute right away.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPO200
Star Player
Joined: 28 Jun 2018
Posts: 1458
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 2025 might be chosen by NO instead of 2024. 2021 will be also ours unless something really bad happens next year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
as a friendly reminder... we gave up a 2nd rounder for the Pistons to take on Svi who is already a solid rotation player... just so we could rent Bullock for like 2 weeks in a lost season
Thanks Magic!
_________________
(bleep) Kawhi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| audioaxes wrote: | as a friendly reminder... we gave up a 2nd rounder for the Pistons to take on Svi who is already a solid rotation player... just so we could rent Bullock for like 2 weeks in a lost season
Thanks Magic! |
That was bugging me the whole time Svi was on the court tonight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I don’t believe that Griffin and Ainge were talking, Ainge had made it known he wouldn’t include Tatum and Griffin knew he could get what he wanted from Pelinka. |
Tatum was off the table, that was obvious.
Griffin did know the Lakers had to make a trade, but also that rival execs don't want the Lakers to build a superteam. Furthermore, that team would be in Griffin's conference. So, if the Lakers took Ingram out of the trade, Griffin would call Ainge, even if he hadn't yet.
Brown/Smart/Baynes, plus a couple picks from this year's draft, the Memphis pick (reverse top-6 protected this year and unprotected in 2021), and two future 1sts from Boston are better than any package we could offer that excluded Ingram.
| Quote: | | As for free and clear first round picks, we have 2020 and 2025. |
Actually, 2025 may go to New Orleans if they don't want our 2024 1st.
For the five drafts after 2020, we own two of our 1sts, and New Orleans has a right to swap 1sts (that doesn't carry over) in 2023. The Pelicans get two of the five outright. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As for Svi, with the way he was shooting for us, even his $1.4M salary would be hard to move should we need that third max slot.
There were possibilities to S&T Bullock in the offseason, had he played well enough, but he didn't pan out for us either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lar9149
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 2387
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
^^^Seriously haha! Business at Staples stays leaky AF
https://mobile.twitter.com/westcoasthky/status/1185048562779844615
Magic quits and then our coaching search happens...remember the leaky mess that was?
We got player development coaches deleting all their socials cause of being leaky with innuendo on the Kuz trade front.
Our FO will continue to leak...ain’t nothing new till we get non-Laker legacy hires. West was a legacy hire by Dr. Buss, but he continuously challenged him instead of being a “yes man” and that’s what Jeanie needs to start looking at. No one wants to challenge her decisions directly, so they resort to leaking it.
| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | We got neither for Jules who was a #7 overall pick. (bleep), you know that deadcap hit if 5m for Deng...yeah that could have been wiped clean if Jukes was used to dump Deng’s salary, no different that DLo used for Moz’s. |
WOW...Randle used to dump Deng. No different from DLo for Moz...wow.
I, too, would think Rob was an idiot, if I thought ANY NBA TEAM would CONSIDER such a RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION. We were offered a 2nd rounder and $5M in dead salary for Randle in February of 2018. In February 2018, Deng was worth 2 years and MINUS $36.5 million dollars. There was no moving Deng, absolute pipe dream.
| Quote: | | Oh and suddenly we have 5m in space to absorb AD’s trade kicker to extend him to max money immediately after the trade. Instead we wait? |
I commend you on cap knowledge, yours definitely exceeds mine. But your player valuations are off, and you rarely consider the human variables. For instance, come this summer, AD is looking at his options. That was always a given.
As you've repeatedly reminded us all, this team is one injury away from being first-round playoff fodder. AD isn't going to sign a long term, or even short term extension if your injury fears come true (or if Max/Skip are right and Kawhi owns LeBron).
| Quote: | | And while we’re on Jules, how were we going to open up max cap space for Bron’s running mate? We either were setup to take in Paula at a slight haircut (28m vs 30m) to pair with his fellow Mintz client, Jules...or we renounce Jules to get that space to max out Paula. Either way, you coulda had 2 max guys along with Jules (and stretching Deng) if you wanted to. But those Mintz (bleep) didn’t want to cooperate. |
As you know, stretching Deng in the summer of 2018 would keep him on our books for five years, and if he didn't agree to the buyout at that time, that's potentially a $7.3M cap hit per year.
Signing Jules for what he wanted, then putting him next to PG/Ingram/LeBron would not help his trade value. He needs touches, and would be coming off the bench while battling Kuz for minutes.
| Quote: | | We could have traded AD into our cap space to spare some if the kiddies but didn’t. |
Wagner and Bonga? Really? Zu and TB would not get the playing time they needed going forward to prove their worth, even if we retained their cap holds and matched their offers. They'd be far more likely to hurt our cap in the near future than even serve as non-negative salary ballast. And we did use about $9M of our cap space to absorb AD's contract.
| Quote: | | We could have waited on the AD trade to finalize 30 days after signing the #4 pick to aggregate an additional 7.1m in the trade to spare some of our kiddies, but didn’t. |
Even Woj backed off that story, and he was the guy pushing that narrative in the first place.
| Quote: | | Instead, Griff held us over a barrel for a guy that literally had his pops force his kid here instead of Boston. |
Griffin was going to take the best deal available. Delaying the deal until the 27th may have changed which deal that was. What a player's dad thinks may change, or not matter, if his son ends up winning Finals MVP there and seems to have a bright future with the roster around him.
(BTW we have the Rose Rule to thank for AD not being traded to Boston last February)
| Quote: | | This summer could have gone a whole lot differently but instead we hoarded cap space for Danny Green and Kcp (who we already had bird rights to by pass the cap for)....if anything, that’s absurd! |
I see what you're getting at, but there was no way to get every team involved to wait until the 27th. Those GMs get paid to do their jobs, too. KCP's Bird Rights came with a cap hold, which I believe was greater than the amount he signed for. |
I believe you’re misunderstanding with my stance is that I wanted to keep the kiddies here. That’s not it at all...I looked at them as assets. If you keep Jules here, that’s just one more asset you can trade a distressed star for (see AD trade).
It was rumored Deng would need two future 1sts to get off of the books. Well, the same way we got off Moz with DLo, you can assume Jules as a pending RFA along with some draft capital could have gotten it done. I mean look at this last summer, it was S&ts all over the place. Jules in a S&t with Deng and a 1st to a cap strapped team looking for a free agent could have been a possibility. But the bottomline is for an asset like Jules (even if the return was low at the time), he was lost for nothing in return but cap that went unrealized.
And that trend continues with how we dealt the Wiz package for nothing in return. I’ll tell you this, that Wiz package would at least be more enticing as assets and would be putting up more minutes in the interim than what Dudz, Cook and Trey are doing with those roster spots. Moe would have been a heck of a back up to AD. Bonga would have been a decent playmaking option as well. And JJ on a vet squad to keep him in check would be a great energy guy. But instead, everybody is trying to offload Dudz, Trey and Cook in deals for salary matching cause they got no value themselves. Once we whiffed on Kawhi, keep those Wiz kidz and have the 4m AD kicker leak into our cap space to offer him a max 2+1 deal the day the trade went official.
Instead we got Elmer Fudd to take up Space on our bench and has Jammed us up as a result. The kiddies would have served up our depth and been much better trade fodder as the deadline approaches. That’s my player evaluation and I can’t see how you could refute it.
Bottomline: I bring up a lot of hypotheticals, but you’re countering them with hypotheticals of your own. AD getting traded to Boston and becoming Finals MVP to have his pops song a different tune??? Really? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vasashi17+ wrote: |
It was rumored Deng would need two future 1sts to get off of the books. Well, the same way we got off Moz with DLo, you can assume Jules as a pending RFA along with some draft capital could have gotten it done. |
The same Jules who garnered us offers such as a 2nd rounder+1 more year of Ajinca's contract at the 2018 deadline? Randle was nothing more than an expiring contract in that proposed trade to get Ajinca off the books.
| Quote: | | I mean look at this last summer, it was S&ts all over the place. Jules in a S&t with Deng and a 1st to a cap strapped team looking for a free agent could have been a possibility. But the bottomline is for an asset like Jules (even if the return was low at the time), he was lost for nothing in return but cap that went unrealized. |
The return wasn't just low, it was zero at the 2018 deadline. Also, even if we had kept him under the QO in 2018-19, he would be exploring options on his own in 2019, and the Knicks would still have offered $21M to him as a UFA.
If you meant the summer of '18, that's two years of Deng for one pick, plus Randle, who didn't receive a single offer sheet...even when the Lakers weren't in any position to match.
| Quote: | | And that trend continues with how we dealt the Wiz package for nothing in return. I’ll tell you this, that Wiz package would at least be more enticing as assets and would be putting up more minutes in the interim than what Dudz, Cook and Trey are doing with those roster spots. Moe would have been a heck of a back up to AD. Bonga would have been a decent playmaking option as well. And JJ on a vet squad to keep him in check would be a great energy guy. But instead, everybody is trying to offload Dudz, Trey and Cook in deals for salary matching cause they got no value themselves. Once we whiffed on Kawhi, keep those Wiz kidz and have the 4m AD kicker leak into our cap space to offer him a max 2+1 deal the day the trade went official. |
Problem is, if you get a yes from Kawhi, suddenly the Wizards are asking for Kuzma instead of JJ (as we have to get the deal done). None of the three had made any significant impact in the league last year. The Wizards or anyone) wouldn't just wait around in case we had to make a last-minute salary dump.
Moe was not projected to play much, as Cousins was expected to take up most of the Center minutes with McGee. Even when Cousins got hurt, we'd be in the market for a Center for defensive purposes. Kuzma was the projected backup to AD.
AD made his intentions of testing his 2021 free agency options known, along with his trade demand.
| Quote: | | Instead we got Elmer Fudd to take up Space on our bench and has Jammed us up as a result. |
A winning line in stand up, but empty calories as basketball analysis. He was a vet minimum signing, he's not holding up anything.
| Quote: | | The kiddies would have served up our depth and been much better trade fodder as the deadline approaches. That’s my player evaluation and I can’t see how you could refute it. |
They'd have to impress GMs by their play in the G-League, and we'd risk not having Kuzma had Kawhi said yes.
| Quote: | | Bottomline: I bring up a lot of hypotheticals, but you’re countering them with hypotheticals of your own. AD getting traded to Boston and becoming Finals MVP to have his pops song a different tune??? Really? |
When did the NBA turn into High School? No one cares what anyone's dad thinks, other than early morning sports talk show producers (until said dad makes a pass/derogatory comment at a female host). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17109
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Leaks generally come from agents.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| audioaxes wrote: | as a friendly reminder... we gave up a 2nd rounder for the Pistons to take on Svi who is already a solid rotation player... just so we could rent Bullock for like 2 weeks in a lost season
Thanks Magic! |
Front office was trying to make some moves for vets around a young core of Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Lebron. The Lakers were at one point 24-17 with that core of guys and LBJ even though they did not fit very well with LBJ. Lakers thought maybe if they got some vets in who could defend and floor space, they could make a run for the playoffs. The Lakers never lost their objective which was to make the playoffs. Lebron was not healthy when he came back, he was still suffering the groin effects. If we had this years Lebron or the pre-groin injury, we probably finish .500 or better and make a strong run for that 8th seed. I think they were thinking Lebron would still be Lebron, which he has not, post-groin injury.
I do not agree with all the trades Pelinka has made, but I think they all have the same agenda. To show Lebron and future FA-trade players that the Lakers are in win now mode, looking to win a ring. They have all been to maximize capspace and win now, and to get rid of bad contracts. Do we even have a single bad longterm contract on the books?
I do think of all the trades, the Svi one sucked the most. I was not at all upset at the Zubac trade. Look at how easily he was replaced and Dwight, McGee and AD are all way better than Zubac Zu was slow, man.
Svi, has turned out to be a nice shooter and can play minutes at the 3 or 2. Which is what we need. I do not regret any of the other young guys going, but this one, I wish we could do over. He is exactly the sort of role player we need around AD-Lebron. Imagine having Dwight, Kuzma, Svi and Caruso (making a combined 8M) to come off the bench to play with either Lebron or AD as a 2nd unit. Svi was exactly the cheap young developing role player you keep around AD-Lebron. Much like Caruso has become. Wish we could do that one, over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dr. Laker wrote: |
Leaks generally come from agents. |
True...and as a friendly reminder Kuz’s agency is now CAA, who Mintz is the co-head of.
I still think our FO has some leaky stuff going on and oddly enough, I feel it’s Rich/Klutch on one side with Jeanie/Phil/Rambii on the other side and Rob playing mediator. Either way, our walls stay leaky and someone is doing it.
Tinfoil time: it was Magic/Rob/Bron/Klutch saying (bleep) the kids and ruining team chemistry last year with AD trade talks and with 2019 free agency pending with Kawhi, Ballmer has his media hacks clickbait the (bleep) out of that situation.
Yet this year with Kawhi in the bag and the cLips suddenly relevant again, there’s no talk of Iggy’s buyout ruining our chemistry and Collison’s interest to join past the deadline upsetting the team dynamic, cause guess what, someone needs to get cut on this team for that to happen. There’s no talk of (bleep) the only kid we have (tho he’s approaching 25y/o) with all the Kuz trade rumors.
With us no longer in position in creating a superteam, it’s mostly crickets from the media. Ballmer’s deep pockets had them serve their purpose. Of course the winning & relatively good health also helps... but even with our 4 game losing streak and record vs title contenders, there wasn’t much doom & gloom coming from the media. /tinfoil
LD_01: so now Kuz, the guy we supposedly held onto sacrificing an extra pick and a pick swap for MUST be dealt to get off the meager 3.7m in aggregated salaries of Moe/Bonga/JJ/2022 2nd...come’n man?! If our FO can’t have other teams salivating to take that type of salary on in a dump for nothing, then your opinion of our FO is far worse than mine.
Bag Kawhi/3rd max first, then pull on a pending deal that rids trivial salary. Instead we gave away assets and clogged up roster spots prematurely (with Dudz & Trey) for what exactly? Green/Kcp/McGee when outside Green, there was no market for these dudes and the salary they ended up getting. Recall outside of the Mavs, league wide most of the substantial cap space was all tied up.
Bro, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | If our FO can’t have other teams salivating to take that type of salary on in a dump for nothing, then your opinion of our FO is far worse than mine. |
"Salivating" over three fringe NBA players who have guaranteed contracts and take up limited roster spots?
Consider the timing...agreeing to move three players before Free Agency begins is much easier. After most cap space is spoken for by July 6th, salary dumps involving multiple players *could* hit a snag. Even if some team could absorb the $3.7M, they may not have the roster spots for three fringe players with guaranteed contracts. Few teams in the Western Conference would be indifferent to our creating a juggernaut in their backyard, so we'd have to look East.
Kuz being sacrificed was a doomsday scenario, but our hand is weakened in free agency by not having a (near)max slot available, and waiting until we need one to create it.
Did anyone get on Jerry West for dumping two rotation players for 2nd round swaps, just to pay Shaq extra (that he later said was unnecessary)? Shaq still hadn't said yes...but it was the right move. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5612
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | Quote: | | If our FO can’t have other teams salivating to take that type of salary on in a dump for nothing, then your opinion of our FO is far worse than mine. |
"Salivating" over three fringe NBA players who have guaranteed contracts and take up limited roster spots?
Consider the timing...agreeing to move three players before Free Agency begins is much easier. After most cap space is spoken for by July 6th, salary dumps involving multiple players *could* hit a snag. Even if some team could absorb the $3.7M, they may not have the roster spots for three fringe players with guaranteed contracts. Few teams in the Western Conference would be indifferent to our creating a juggernaut in their backyard, so we'd have to look East.
Kuz being sacrificed was a doomsday scenario, but our hand is weakened in free agency by not having a (near)max slot available, and waiting until we need one to create it.
Did anyone get on Jerry West for dumping two rotation players for 2nd round swaps, just to pay Shaq extra (that he later said was unnecessary)? Shaq still hadn't said yes...but it was the right move. |
During the offseason, a team can take on up to 20 roster spots before dwindling it down to 15. I don’t see any type of snag occurring for a team that has no free agency traction like the Wiz and seem to adore our kiddies.
#Salivating
As for dumping assets for Shaq...wouldn’t you say West had a good sense that Shaq was coming if the money was right? It’s the same with Myers in how he felt about KD coming on board with the dubs and the necessary salary gymnastics that needed to be done to get that accomplished. Rob could have had a good feeling about Kawhi which made him dump salary prematurely...but the salary dumps occurred way before he sat down with us. So maybe more along wishful thinking rather than having good sense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^Wizards only made the deal because they had a trade exception handy, they couldn't acquire Moe/JJ/Bonga otherwise.
If there's even a 20% chance the Wizards use that exception in the meantime, then the salary dump has to be made ASAP. Wagner wouldn't get any playing time on our expected roster with AD, Kuzma and another big or two. Same with Bonga. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
