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ringfinger
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 Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| lar9149 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Magic was awful as POBO and that we are good after his departure doesn’t change that. |
No it doesn’t change that. But I like to separate decision making from results.
Because results have an element of luck involved. For example someone flipping a coin and calling heads and the result being heads doesn’t imply a good decision versus a lucky decision.
So ignoring the result of Magic’s POBO and looking instead at the decisionS he made. |
Oh yeah I am totally a process over results person so I get you. But I don’t think the process was very good at all starting with the decision to join as POBO and not recognizing he couldn’t cut it. (Well until it was too late).
I actually think the results make the process seem like it might have been good, but, I don’t think he did much at all that was very good. From tampering, to poor trades, failed acquisitions, overhyping rookies, etc. |
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lar9149
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | Lakers reportedly offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Bradley Beasley and two 1st round picks. So we kept Kuzma and Rondo but gave up Hart and 1 first round pick.
Also, the offers were made public so it generated a bad environment in the team that doomed for sure the season. We cannot be sure about how much is Magic to blame with this though, but considering how everything that he was involved ended up in the press, he is not to be trusted in keeping a secret. |
I always wondering myself. I know Magic making these trades public was a bad idea. I just wonder a team as high profile as the Lakers could actually keep this stuff public? Some thing like the Before AD was traded this summer would be impossible to keep private nor did they keep private on their intention to keep Kuzma
And Magic is perhaps the kind of guy that likes to talk to the media.
I also notice the Lakers don’t keep everything private like the intention to get Iggy if he gets brought out. But in this case, this could be a good thing to perhaps pressure Memphis. At the same time this story seem to originated from Iggy himself and not the FO |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| lar9149 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | Lakers reportedly offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Bradley Beasley and two 1st round picks. So we kept Kuzma and Rondo but gave up Hart and 1 first round pick.
Also, the offers were made public so it generated a bad environment in the team that doomed for sure the season. We cannot be sure about how much is Magic to blame with this though, but considering how everything that he was involved ended up in the press, he is not to be trusted in keeping a secret. |
I always wondering myself. I know Magic making these trades public was a bad idea. I just wonder a team as high profile as the Lakers could actually keep this stuff public? Some thing like the Before AD was traded this summer would be impossible to keep private nor did they keep private on their intention to keep Kuzma
And Magic is perhaps the kind of guy that likes to talk to the media.
I also notice the Lakers don’t keep everything private like the intention to get Iggy if he gets brought out. But in this case, this could be a good thing to perhaps pressure Memphis. At the same time this story seem to originated from Iggy himself and not the FO |
Why would making the desire to sign Iggy public put pressure on Memphis in a way that is incrementally favorable to us? |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Magic is the same person that announced the 3 max players on the Lakers idea to the press. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Magic was an awful executive.
Not only did he not show up to work, but he leaked everything to the media. It’s tough as it is not saying anything, why would you tell your competition all your plans. Smdh. |
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lar9149
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | lar9149 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | Lakers reportedly offered Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Bradley Beasley and two 1st round picks. So we kept Kuzma and Rondo but gave up Hart and 1 first round pick.
Also, the offers were made public so it generated a bad environment in the team that doomed for sure the season. We cannot be sure about how much is Magic to blame with this though, but considering how everything that he was involved ended up in the press, he is not to be trusted in keeping a secret. |
I always wondering myself. I know Magic making these trades public was a bad idea. I just wonder a team as high profile as the Lakers could actually keep this stuff public? Some thing like the Before AD was traded this summer would be impossible to keep private nor did they keep private on their intention to keep Kuzma
And Magic is perhaps the kind of guy that likes to talk to the media.
I also notice the Lakers don’t keep everything private like the intention to get Iggy if he gets brought out. But in this case, this could be a good thing to perhaps pressure Memphis. At the same time this story seem to originated from Iggy himself and not the FO |
Why would making the desire to sign Iggy public put pressure on Memphis in a way that is incrementally favorable to us? |
My guess By the media be an irritating brick on Memphis and insisting that no team would trade for him so might as well buy him out now.
Not that I think Memphis will fall for this. |
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lar9149
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Magic was an awful executive.
Not only did he not show up to work, but he leaked everything to the media. It’s tough as it is not saying anything, why would you tell your competition all your plans. Smdh. |
Didn’t know he didn’t show up for work. I taught we was a hard worker so surprised by this. Was he just lazy or just too busy? |
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SPO200
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| lar9149 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Magic was an awful executive.
Not only did he not show up to work, but he leaked everything to the media. It’s tough as it is not saying anything, why would you tell your competition all your plans. Smdh. |
Didn’t know he didn’t show up for work. I taught we was a hard worker so surprised by this. Was he just lazy or just too busy? |
According to that ESPN report he was more interested in his own businesses. Also when he was in Lakers' offices he acted like a bully with the employees. |
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lar9149
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | lar9149 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Magic was an awful executive.
Not only did he not show up to work, but he leaked everything to the media. It’s tough as it is not saying anything, why would you tell your competition all your plans. Smdh. |
Didn’t know he didn’t show up for work. I taught we was a hard worker so surprised by this. Was he just lazy or just too busy? |
According to that ESPN report he was more interested in his own businesses. Also when he was in Lakers' offices he acted like a bully with the employees. |
sounds like a conflict of interest..a no no in the corporate world |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Magic was an awful executive.
Not only did he not show up to work, but he leaked everything to the media. It’s tough as it is not saying anything, why would you tell your competition all your plans. Smdh. |
This.
Also, not only did he not do his homework, he still wanted to make the big decisions even though he was half assing his job. In business he was smart enough to defer and listen to the guys who knew more, but since basketball was his purview when he was younger he thought his playing expertise meant something when it came to being a basketball executive, and he sucked at it. Magic quiting unexpectedly and trashing the franchise on the way out was a (bleep) head move, but it might have been the best thing that could have happened since at the very least it got his incompetent ass out of the FO.
Magic was one of the greatest players of all time and is clearly a smart and talented guy, but he is terrible at every aspect of basketball that doesn’t involve actually playing the game. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I miss Magic.
I miss having our pobo going on TV and sharing the team's plans with the whole world. |
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gumby
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | I miss Magic.
I miss having our pobo going on TV and sharing the team's plans with the whole world. |
-Signed Bill Simmons, ESPN, and the haters.
Bye.
_________________
"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Magic served a purpose. He was the guy that gained Lebron's trust. Before that, Lebron (who has a feud with Phil Jackson over posse comments) may have viewed the Lakers ownership as aligned with Phil because of Jeanie. It was Magic who went to Lebron's house and sealed the deal. Without Lebron, we are not an elite team right now. I think Magic is the guy that had the audacity to believe that he could legit deliver to 2 superstars to LA within 2 years. And whether it was a good plan, bad plan, or any idiot could have thought of that plan, it worked in the end, no? We got AD and LBJ.
The issue with Magic - he didn't know how to build the small parts a team needed, and didn't know how to keep his mouth shut. Because he was an ambassador for the game and a media guy for so many years, he couldn't control but share tid bits with his friends. He needed to control his mouth, and he just couldn't. He has too many friends and loves to be liked by everyone.
Since his departure you have seen the way Rob does things. I think it's been good. He knows how to build a team, or at least align with coaches and star players to get the right group together.
Don't regret the Magic move. I think we don't have this 2 superstar plan and Lebron without Magic. I've always said that Mitch's biggest weakness was that he couldn't get a salesman with him. Pat Riley is a salesman. Magic is a salesman. That's how in part we got Lebron. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA.
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SPO200
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example.
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SPO200
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was a good idea to give them 4 years instead of just 2.
Last edited by SPO200 on Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA?
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SPO200
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA? |
If I remember right they saved some millions last year, but I don't remember if that was reflected in the cap or if it was just that Jeanie saved money. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA? |
Thought it was because Deng gave back $7.5M which saved them around $1M in cap space versus stretching him a year later with no give back. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA? |
Thought it was because Deng gave back $7.5M which saved them around $1M in cap space versus stretching him a year later with no give back. |
Any reason to believe he wouldn't give back a year later though? I think Magic wanted to claim that they cleared 38m dollars for "wink wink..."
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | SPO200 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
I don't know about this because I'm not sure how we could have gotten rid of Deng. Maybe we could have given Kuzma and Deng to the Memphis this year for Igoudala but then we would not have cap space for all the players we signed this year. |
Or you could wait one more year and have 1 less stretch year?
The going prices to get rid of the 2016 FA terrible signings got cheaper each year. Look at Moz for example. |
So the last year of Deng's contract would be in the cap for this year and the next one? I don't really know these rules so I'm not sure what was the best approach to solve the situation. The first problem was giving Deng and Mozgov a long contract, I don't understand in what moment they thought that it was idea to given them 4 years instead of just 2. |
They literally tried to clear the cap space for 38m (KD was the hot rumor at the time) just to say they had it. When we got a 4th pick, our cap space shrunk even more, coupled with the 5m+ that Deng's stretched deal added. They tried to freeze Deng out when he's been a pretty respected player across the league. I didn't like how they handled that to be honest. But what exactly was the rush to get that done a full calendar year before 2019 FA? |
Thought it was because Deng gave back $7.5M which saved them around $1M in cap space versus stretching him a year later with no give back. |
Any reason to believe he wouldn't give back a year later though? I think Magic wanted to claim that they cleared 38m dollars for "wink wink..." |
Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Magic was one of the greatest players of all time and is clearly a smart and talented guy, but he is terrible at every aspect of basketball that doesn’t involve actually playing the game. |
Yep legendary player, but he’s everything you don’t want in an executive.
Impulsive, big mouth, ego driven, big into gossip and probably doesn’t know what analytics means... |
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lar9149
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Magic was one of the greatest players of all time and is clearly a smart and talented guy, but he is terrible at every aspect of basketball that doesn’t involve actually playing the game. |
Yep legendary player, but he’s everything you don’t want in an executive.
Impulsive, big mouth, ego driven, big into gossip and probably doesn’t know what analytics means... |
Yes and I am surprised by this. You know Dr Buss took him under his wing himself and taught him about business. And this started his rookie year in 1980.
And Dr Buss business abilities need no explanation. Maybe some things aren’t teachable. |
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