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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| If Lakers waive Deng in 2019, they then have to spread it out into 2021. Which is a year they are targeting in free agency. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
Shedding those guys to sign players like KCP wasn’t smart.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived. |
If we traded him, we would have had to attach assets most likely. His agreement to give back of $7.5M meant less salary cap hit since that savings was split over the stretch years. Looks like the cap savings was $1.3M as a result of the give back.
https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1035970540991926273
| Quote: | | The stretch provision on the Luol Deng waiver projects to be right at $4.99M that will hit the Lakers cap from 2019-20 to 2021-22. The buyout gave the Lakers an additional $1.3M in savings compared to a $6.3M cap hit had Los Angeles waited until next year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived. |
If we traded him, we would have had to attach assets most likely. His agreement to give back of $7.5M meant less salary cap hit since that savings was split over the stretch years. Looks like the cap savings was $1.3M as a result of the give back.
https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1035970540991926273
| Quote: | | The stretch provision on the Luol Deng waiver projects to be right at $4.99M that will hit the Lakers cap from 2019-20 to 2021-22. The buyout gave the Lakers an additional $1.3M in savings compared to a $6.3M cap hit had Los Angeles waited until next year. |
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Right it’s about equal. But the salary ballast part is also noteworthy bc we literally had no salary to send out besides our most prized assets. Could always do the stretch in 2019 summer and get same results (but at least you could kick around using Deng’s deal to par salary as an expiring in an AD trade).
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
Shedding those guys to sign players like KCP wasn’t smart. |
Goes without saying but signing MozDeng to those deals...what were they thinking?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| lar9149 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Magic was one of the greatest players of all time and is clearly a smart and talented guy, but he is terrible at every aspect of basketball that doesn’t involve actually playing the game. |
Yep legendary player, but he’s everything you don’t want in an executive.
Impulsive, big mouth, ego driven, big into gossip and probably doesn’t know what analytics means... |
Yes and I am surprised by this. You know Dr Buss took him under his wing himself and taught him about business. And this started his rookie year in 1980.
And Dr Buss business abilities need no explanation. Maybe some things aren’t teachable. |
Look at his kids.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | If Lakers waive Deng in 2019, they then have to spread it out into 2021. Which is a year they are targeting in free agency. |
Though they more than likely won’t have max cap space
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
Shedding those guys to sign players like KCP wasn’t smart. |
Goes without saying but signing MozDeng to those deals...what were they thinking? |
Deflect away
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | That Deng move was not a smart one. Having his 5m+ cap hold for a few more years was the reason we had to shed guys like Wagner/Bonga/Jones for pure cap space. It was also a contributing factor for why we HAD to trade BI/Zo/4th just to preserve a max spot b/f 2019 FA. |
Shedding those guys to sign players like KCP wasn’t smart. |
Goes without saying but signing MozDeng to those deals...what were they thinking? |
Deflect away |
Deflect away? That's what you've been doing since 2016.
It's not a controversial FACT. That was quite a mess they had to clean up and the fact we have LBJ/AD and the best record in the NBA following that wake is amazing.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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They have AD because of that stretch of seasons
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win.
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived. |
If we traded him, we would have had to attach assets most likely. His agreement to give back of $7.5M meant less salary cap hit since that savings was split over the stretch years. Looks like the cap savings was $1.3M as a result of the give back.
https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1035970540991926273
| Quote: | | The stretch provision on the Luol Deng waiver projects to be right at $4.99M that will hit the Lakers cap from 2019-20 to 2021-22. The buyout gave the Lakers an additional $1.3M in savings compared to a $6.3M cap hit had Los Angeles waited until next year. |
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Right it’s about equal. But the salary ballast part is also noteworthy bc we literally had no salary to send out besides our most prized assets. Could always do the stretch in 2019 summer and get same results (but at least you could kick around using Deng’s deal to par salary as an expiring in an AD trade). |
Well it’s not about equal. The discount being that exact amount gave the Lakers a full max slot. No discount, no full max. And they got to the full max slot without giving up any assets.
I see your point that maybe Deng could have been packaged as an expiring for AD but I don’t really know how you get there with confidence for July 2019 in Sept of 2018. We don’t even know if the Pels would have valued salary more than assets enough to proceed with the trade. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived. |
If we traded him, we would have had to attach assets most likely. His agreement to give back of $7.5M meant less salary cap hit since that savings was split over the stretch years. Looks like the cap savings was $1.3M as a result of the give back.
https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1035970540991926273
| Quote: | | The stretch provision on the Luol Deng waiver projects to be right at $4.99M that will hit the Lakers cap from 2019-20 to 2021-22. The buyout gave the Lakers an additional $1.3M in savings compared to a $6.3M cap hit had Los Angeles waited until next year. |
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Right it’s about equal. But the salary ballast part is also noteworthy bc we literally had no salary to send out besides our most prized assets. Could always do the stretch in 2019 summer and get same results (but at least you could kick around using Deng’s deal to par salary as an expiring in an AD trade). |
Well it’s not about equal. The discount being that exact amount gave the Lakers a full max slot. No discount, no full max. And they got to the full max slot without giving up any assets.
I see your point that maybe Deng could have been packaged as an expiring for AD but I don’t really know how you get there with confidence for July 2019 in Sept of 2018. We don’t even know if the Pels would have valued salary more than assets enough to proceed with the trade. |
I thought that we were still short of a full max and people expected Kawhi to take a little less?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Because everyone and their Mom knew the Lakers wanted to chase a FA the following summer to pair with LBJ and so their only options would be to include assets and trade him, or have less cap space. |
That's a factor for sure. But he would have been salary ballast in a trade if we needed it, and if we didn't, we could have waived his 15m for 19-20 (IIRC) and had the same stretch cap hit. We deprived ourselves of a salary ballast and had to use Zo/BI/4th pick (basically our most valuable assets outside of LBJ) to MATCH salaries with AD. We were so salary ballast deprived. |
If we traded him, we would have had to attach assets most likely. His agreement to give back of $7.5M meant less salary cap hit since that savings was split over the stretch years. Looks like the cap savings was $1.3M as a result of the give back.
https://twitter.com/bobbymarks42/status/1035970540991926273
| Quote: | | The stretch provision on the Luol Deng waiver projects to be right at $4.99M that will hit the Lakers cap from 2019-20 to 2021-22. The buyout gave the Lakers an additional $1.3M in savings compared to a $6.3M cap hit had Los Angeles waited until next year. |
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Right it’s about equal. But the salary ballast part is also noteworthy bc we literally had no salary to send out besides our most prized assets. Could always do the stretch in 2019 summer and get same results (but at least you could kick around using Deng’s deal to par salary as an expiring in an AD trade). |
Well it’s not about equal. The discount being that exact amount gave the Lakers a full max slot. No discount, no full max. And they got to the full max slot without giving up any assets.
I see your point that maybe Deng could have been packaged as an expiring for AD but I don’t really know how you get there with confidence for July 2019 in Sept of 2018. We don’t even know if the Pels would have valued salary more than assets enough to proceed with the trade. |
I thought that we were still short of a full max and people expected Kawhi to take a little less? |
I do remember that, but could that have been because that was based on the final cap announcement? So it was off by a bit? |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Let's dig up that horse's corpse and beat it some more!
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Let's dig up that horse's corpse and beat it some more! |
Ok. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Let's dig up that horse's corpse and beat it some more! |
For some, a 21-3 record is just not enough. 
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win. |
He's not ready yet, but I think he will be in a few years after learning from Bron.
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lar9149
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | lar9149 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Magic was one of the greatest players of all time and is clearly a smart and talented guy, but he is terrible at every aspect of basketball that doesn’t involve actually playing the game. |
Yep legendary player, but he’s everything you don’t want in an executive.
Impulsive, big mouth, ego driven, big into gossip and probably doesn’t know what analytics means... |
Yes and I am surprised by this. You know Dr Buss took him under his wing himself and taught him about business. And this started his rookie year in 1980.
And Dr Buss business abilities need no explanation. Maybe some things aren’t teachable. |
Look at his kids. |
What about Jeannie she’s not so bad no? |
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Judah
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win. |
He's not ready yet, but I think he will be in a few years after learning from Bron. |
I think as long as he has another star next to him, along with a role player or two who are natural leaders (ala D-Fish) we'll be fine.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win. |
He's not ready yet, but I think he will be in a few years after learning from Bron. |
I think as long as he has another star next to him, along with a role player or two who are natural leaders (ala D-Fish) we'll be fine. |
Giannis is such a longshot, but in a vacuum, a player like him would 1000% be dying to play with someone like AD who is an elite scorer and DPOY. He may not be a true and unquestioned alpha #1, but I think he's a 1B type of player who will orchestrate the defense (which is at least 50% of the battle) and be great on offense...
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win. |
He's not ready yet, but I think he will be in a few years after learning from Bron. |
He definitely could be
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Judah
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have AD because of that stretch of seasons |
And you repeatedly "warned" us about how overrated AD is. |
No, I warned that he wasn’t an alpha who could lead a team to success. That is why I was excited that he had Lebron for that. He would only be overrated if one thinks that he can put a team on his back and win. |
He's not ready yet, but I think he will be in a few years after learning from Bron. |
I think as long as he has another star next to him, along with a role player or two who are natural leaders (ala D-Fish) we'll be fine. |
Giannis is such a longshot, but in a vacuum, a player like him would 1000% be dying to play with someone like AD who is an elite scorer and DPOY. He may not be a true and unquestioned alpha #1, but I think he's a 1B type of player who will orchestrate the defense (which is at least 50% of the battle) and be great on offense... |
For sure. Hopefully Giannis will realize he needs a guy like AD if he wants to win it all. It's a long shot he'll ever get another star to join him in Milwaukee. They definitely beat the Raps last year with AD and win it all against the hobbled Warriors.
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