If you could rewind to Pre-Maginka era, would you?
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Would you rewind to before Magic and Pelinka took over the front office?
Yes
73%
 73%  [ 61 ]
No
26%
 26%  [ 22 ]
Total Votes : 83

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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
No, Mitch and Jim would have managed to sign some random guy for 20 a year and left us with some miserable contracts because of their desperation.


At least Mitch and Jim wouldn't have traded away Lou, DLo and Zubac for nothing.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
No, Mitch and Jim would have managed to sign some random guy for 20 a year and left us with some miserable contracts because of their desperation.


At least Mitch and Jim wouldn't have traded away Lou, DLo and Zubac for nothing.


Mitch and Jim were completely lousy. They gave approximately the same amount of money to Deng and Mozgov as this front office did for Lebron.

If we decided to trade away Lebron today, I'd bet we would recoup the value of Lou and Zu really easily, and most if not all of Russell's value. And let's not revise history, Russell was a knucklehead here, and I actually liked his game, but there was no sign that he was going to get serious when he was with us.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject:

I have always maintained we would have been better off sticking to the Jim/Mitch plan.....even if Jim/Mitch were not managing it. Mozgov and Deng were very bad contracts, but we should have kept developing young assets for at least 3 years of the contracts. It would have been much easier to move them this year.

There is no guarantee you can build a championship roster....too many variables, but you can pretty much guarantee that you build a competitive team as a floor by having a strategy that everyone is committed to and stay on track. Look at what the Nets have done from where they came from. They were in a much more bleak position than us, and they just stuck to the plan....made moves in the margins and are now a competitive team with many options.

As bad as the Deng and Mozgov contracts were, both were still able to eat some minutes this year and were somewhat productive in limited minutes. Would Mozgov really been any worse than Chandler?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject:

I guess the presumption is we get the benefit of hindsight and everyone develops in the same way, so sure. You do that in virtually every situation, huh, because you can always redo what worked and change what didn't. In this case:

1. Keep Russell.
2. Let Deng and Mos run out.
3. Look for a different deal to trade Clarkson and Nance
4. Resign Randle, and then perhaps trade him depending on offer
5. Extend Lou Williams
6. Think about trading Ingram depending on offers
7. Draft Tatum instead of Ball
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
I guess the presumption is we get the benefit of hindsight and everyone develops in the same way, so sure. You do that in virtually every situation, huh, because you can always redo what worked and change what didn't. In this case:

1. Keep Russell.
2. Let Deng and Mos run out.
3. Look for a different deal to trade Clarkson and Nance
4. Resign Randle, and then perhaps trade him depending on offer
5. Extend Lou Williams
6. Think about trading Ingram depending on offers
7. Draft Tatum instead of Ball


I think Mitch still moves Lou for the same deal Magic took.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:53 pm    Post subject:

Firing Mitch was the right thing to do. Hiring an unexperienced guy, with
bigger than the franchise ego, who wasnt sure if he wanted to live that life,
wasnt the right thing to do.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
No, Mitch and Jim would have managed to sign some random guy for 20 a year and left us with some miserable contracts because of their desperation.


At least Mitch and Jim wouldn't have traded away Lou, DLo and Zubac for nothing.


Mitch and Jim were completely lousy. They gave approximately the same amount of money to Deng and Mozgov as this front office did for Lebron.

If we decided to trade away Lebron today, I'd bet we would recoup the value of Lou and Zu really easily, and most if not all of Russell's value. And let's not revise history, Russell was a knucklehead here, and I actually liked his game, but there was no sign that he was going to get serious when he was with us.


Well magic couldn't even serious with us so it's kinda moot. He's going to go down as one the worst FO executives of all time and have his name next to billy king, isaiah thomas and michael jordan, especially after the stunt he pulled last night.

Mitch and Jim look 10x better regardless of the mozdeng contracts, so it does leave some room to question about how russell would have developed had things still been the same.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
No, Mitch and Jim would have managed to sign some random guy for 20 a year and left us with some miserable contracts because of their desperation.


At least Mitch and Jim wouldn't have traded away Lou, DLo and Zubac for nothing.


Mitch and Jim were completely lousy. They gave approximately the same amount of money to Deng and Mozgov as this front office did for Lebron.

If we decided to trade away Lebron today, I'd bet we would recoup the value of Lou and Zu really easily, and most if not all of Russell's value. And let's not revise history, Russell was a knucklehead here, and I actually liked his game, but there was no sign that he was going to get serious when he was with us.


Well magic couldn't even serious with us so it's kinda moot. He's going to go down as one the worst FO executives of all time and have his name next to billy king, isaiah thomas and michael jordan, especially after the stunt he pulled last night.

Mitch and Jim look 10x better regardless of the mozdeng contracts, so it does leave some room to question about how russell would have developed had things still been the same.


so you're assuming everything would go perfectly with mitch and jim and they wouldn't make some terrible signing in the last 2 seasons like they did in 2016?

under the guidance of jim and mitch, russell straightens up his act and becomes an all star?

the last 3-4 years of mitch/jim were a mess, no other way around it. i'm not saying magic did well, but mitch and jim couldn't be take seriously in FA, which was a major gripe of fans.

glad mitch left along with his magic wand.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: If you could rewind to Pre-Maginka era, would you?

Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Just like the title says. In theory, if you could take a time machine and rewind to just before the 2016 trade deadline when Magic officially took over as POBO would you do it?

Just as a refresher, these were the assets we had prior to that 2016 trade deadline:

-D’Lo(year 2)
-Ingram(rookie)
-Nance(year 3)
-Randle(year 3)
-Clarkson(could be considered an asset at the time)
-Lou Williams
-Potenial top 3 pick in 2017 draft(top 3 protected)

Negative assets:
-Freshly signed Deng/Mozgov(4 year contracts)


Nope.

LeBron is worth all of the guys we lost. Only change I would make is I would have sent out Ingram for PG13 in a heartbeat.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject:

I don't understand why so many of you assume Jim would have just stood pat with a team of underachieving young players. He was a bigger star chaser than even Magic and since he kept striking out in free agency, I have little doubt they would have cleared the deck to chase LeBron/PG last year, just like Magic and Rob did. I don't think Russell would have lasted his first three seasons under Jim and Mitch to get to that fourth breakout year. He would have been shipped out.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
lonzobryant wrote:
Yes, would've drafted Fox over Ball and prioritized PG13 over LeBron.

that still does not get PG13. PG13 is such a beta male he was not leaving his new alpha Westbrook, with or without Lebron here. Only way to get him would have been trading assets for him out of Indiana but I doubt they really would play ball with us just like Spurs and Pelicans.


Mitch wouldn’t have been afraid to trade for him and there would have been no agent conflict.




Magic to Mitch.....Like jumping from the frying pan into the fire....

One mess to another on numerous occasions...

If only Coach K was our coach, with POP and West running the show...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:13 am    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
HOF Rookie wrote:
No, Mitch and Jim would have managed to sign some random guy for 20 a year and left us with some miserable contracts because of their desperation.


At least Mitch and Jim wouldn't have traded away Lou, DLo and Zubac for nothing.


Mitch and Jim were completely lousy. They gave approximately the same amount of money to Deng and Mozgov as this front office did for Lebron.

If we decided to trade away Lebron today, I'd bet we would recoup the value of Lou and Zu really easily, and most if not all of Russell's value. And let's not revise history, Russell was a knucklehead here, and I actually liked his game, but there was no sign that he was going to get serious when he was with us.


Well magic couldn't even serious with us so it's kinda moot. He's going to go down as one the worst FO executives of all time and have his name next to billy king, isaiah thomas and michael jordan, especially after the stunt he pulled last night.

Mitch and Jim look 10x better regardless of the mozdeng contracts, so it does leave some room to question about how russell would have developed had things still been the same.


so you're assuming everything would go perfectly with mitch and jim and they wouldn't make some terrible signing in the last 2 seasons like they did in 2016?

under the guidance of jim and mitch, russell straightens up his act and becomes an all star?

the last 3-4 years of mitch/jim were a mess, no other way around it. i'm not saying magic did well, but mitch and jim couldn't be take seriously in FA, which was a major gripe of fans.

glad mitch left along with his magic wand.


After what Magic has done in his tenure, yes banking on Mitch and Jim not making a terrible signing again sounds better in hindsight between the 2 scenarios. I'd trade for that risk if it meant being competent in almost every other area unlike Magic.

Russell straightening up his act? Russell's biggest critic turned out to be more immature and quitted when the going gets tough. You also have to question how much of the narrative was manipulated by the media due to people like magic.

If Russell was a truly a knucklehead, then there's no way he becomes a leader in Brooklyn within a 1-2 years. Personalities don't change that quickly with a single trade. Sometimes they may never change at all. Nick Young and JR Smith as fine examples of players who are true knuckleheads and never change regardless of scenery.

It's likely Russell was immature because of his age while making mistakes. There's a chance he matures naturally since rookies typically do so within 3-5 years regardless of the situation.

I agree the last 3-4 years of Mitch and Jim weren't great. They definitely deserved to be fired but saying Magic didn't do well is still an understatement. FA aren't going take us seriously after his recent stunt on top of all the other issues.

At least Mitch has a wand proven to deliver. Magic snake oiled laker fans into thinking he had one in the first place.

Ideally both should have been replaced with more skilled people but between experiencing more of mitch/jim vs maginka after what they've shown, it's obvious the former is better despite the MozDeng signings.

Mitch and Jim brought us championships as executives. Magic ran away from his plan at the first sign of adversity.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:30 am    Post subject:

Dbask, Agree to disagree. I had so little faith I. Mitch and Jim at the end. Not only were they not signing stars, they were saddling us with poor contracts. Partly because of desperation but when Aldridge essentially gives you a pity 2nd meeting to redeem yourself, you know the free agency dooor is shut.

Let’s say we decided to trade lebron today, I’m guessing someone gives us 3-4 first rounders, and maybe a solid young player.

That more than makes up for the majority of guys we lost. People crying over losing nance and Clarkson (not saying this is you) is just laughable. Those types of guys are relatively easy to replace. And nance was due for a bigger deal which there’s no way we should have given him anyway.

Drafting wise, I’d give a slight edge to Mitch and Jim, but not even sure about that.

And believe me, I was frustrated by magic but I thought he could at least lock in a big fish. That wasn’t a possibility with Mitch.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:40 am    Post subject:

Dbask, also regarding Russell. He openly did he didn’t know what it took to be a professional during his years here. The trade was definite a wake up call.

This is where deng could have helped but Russell wasn’t serious about things until he left.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:54 am    Post subject:

Keeping Jim and Mitch is better than this dysfunction. At least Jim had some power to stop Jeanie's worst instincts. If Jim Buss was still in charge, I'd bet on the Paul George deal with the Pacers getting done, because he wanted to trade Ingram for Cousins.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
activeverb wrote:
I guess the presumption is we get the benefit of hindsight and everyone develops in the same way, so sure. You do that in virtually every situation, huh, because you can always redo what worked and change what didn't. In this case:

1. Keep Russell.
2. Let Deng and Mos run out.
3. Look for a different deal to trade Clarkson and Nance
4. Resign Randle, and then perhaps trade him depending on offer
5. Extend Lou Williams
6. Think about trading Ingram depending on offers
7. Draft Tatum instead of Ball


I think Mitch still moves Lou for the same deal Magic took.


He definitely does. Keeping Lou Will is a pure hindsight move. I also think Ingram and Randle end up getting moved for Paul George, because Mitch and Jim don't go spouting off to the media that Ingram is "untouchable".

I also think they still do the Clarkson/Nance deal as well. I don't know why anyone has a problem with that trade. It was a good trade for us.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:57 am    Post subject:

We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:04 am    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:
We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.
My shoes are on top of the sky as we speak. it has fallen.

i told you , these laker fans are officiall Bi-Polar.

They dont know what they want. The want everything all of the time. when we know thats not possible. and when they dont get it all, they throw tantrums and say fire everyone. that would not be an issue in say 1998. but in 2019. everyone hears them. sports talk radio hears them, they see their tweets and some are on this very site. FO and Ownership hears them loud and clear.

Thats a big problem. the laker fan base today has more power than they have ever had before. Its a good thing and a bad thing all at the same time because half of the fanbase is truly bi-polar and is always on a hindsight is 20/20 & the grass is greener on the other side type of mindset. Those types of mindsets should not be able to talk to management or ownership. but they do via social media.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.
My shoes are on top of the sky as we speak. it has fallen.

i told you , these laker fans are officiall Bi-Polar.

They dont know what they want. The want everything all of the time. when we know thats not possible. and when they dont get it all, they throw tantrums and say fire everyone. that would not be an issue in say 1998. but in 2019. everyone hears them. sports talk radio hears them, they see their tweets and some are on this very site. FO and Ownership hears them loud and clear.

Thats a big problem. the laker fan base today has more power than they have ever had before. Its a good thing and a bad thing all at the same time because half of the fanbase is truly bi-polar and is always on a hindsight is 20/20 & the grass is greener on the other side type of mindset. Those types of mindsets should not be able to talk to management or ownership. but they do via social media.


Couldn't have said it better.

I remember the days of NBA-Wire. Back then, it was all about basketball and the news we got outside of basketball was basically TMZ fodder.

Today, if a player breaks wind, there's video AND audio and someone suing them because of the smell. On top of that, you have an ENTIRE NEWS CYCLE dedicated to discussing if their flatulence will affect their TRADE VALUE! LOL.

It's gotten to the point where true basketball discussion is the "OFF TOPIC" in every topic!

It's hard being a Lakers fan...definitely harder on us who have been Lakers Fans longer than most of the posters here have been alive!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject:

Yes, of course. Letting Randle and Lopez go we’re mistakes. The AD potential trade turned into a fiasco. Even letting Dlo go seems to be a mistake. And the choice of Ball as their top pick seems like it wasn’t the best choice.

But the mistakes of the prior regime were worse and set the stage for this current regime;

Kobe’s bloated salary
Throwing big money away at Mozgov and Deng
Ineptitude in finding a suitable replacement for head coach after Phil left.

Worst seasons in Laker history under that regime- let’s not forget.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:42 am    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:
We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.


Not really. We’re discussing a rewind: Would you undo all of the things that Magic did during his tenure? This isn’t about restoring Jim Buss.

Magic spent a couple years dumping assets to clear cap space for a second superstar. If the second superstar does not arrive this summer, then Magic’s tenure will have been a comprehensive failure. This includes the signing of Lebron. Now Magic has thrown the team into turmoil right before the critical free agency period. Wonderful.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.


Not really. We’re discussing a rewind: Would you undo all of the things that Magic did during his tenure? This isn’t about restoring Jim Buss.

Magic spent a couple years dumping assets to clear cap space for a second superstar. If the second superstar does not arrive this summer, then Magic’s tenure will have been a comprehensive failure. This includes the signing of Lebron. Now Magic has thrown the team into turmoil right before the critical free agency period. Wonderful.


I disagree. Magic made room for 2 max slots and created a COMPETITIVE team this past year while waiting to get the next.

Magic didn't fail at what he had planned. He left before completing the job.

And I'd rather have those 2 max slots than Russell/Randle/Lopez/Lou Will.

In fact, if a team had ALL of those players right now and offered ALL of them for LeBron ALONE, we'd say no...so would all 29 other teams.

Lakers aren't about building a long-term development program...never have. We are about stars and star power.


Our fans are now revising history like we have EVER built a contender this way.


Jeanie and Magic were raised and taught by Dr. Jerry Buss to go get the best. That's what they knew and that's what they gave themselves room to do.

Just because you (not you specifically) disagree with that approach, that doesn't mean it's wrong. It's a proven way to build a Championship team to the tune of 10 rings in my lifetime.


But because GSW did it differently and have won 3 rings, we think we need to do what they are doing? How weak does that sound?


We are Lakers. We get stars for a reason - being a Laker is FAR too hard to think you can take rookies/kids, put them under that much pressure and they all or most don't break.

I didn't think Magic was a great hire but I was willing to give him time to prove me wrong. Magic did exactly what he said he was going to do and it matches EXACTLY what Dr. Jerry Buss would have done.

I'm ok with that.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject:

No.

The first year of Magic/Palinka was a great leap forward from the Jimbo years. Then the worst thing happened, and Magic's Lebron dream came true. He willingly handed the reigns over to Klutch, tried to jump tracks from a band of rapidly improving home grown talent, to Lebron and his usual band of journeyment, and the train predictably derailed. That leap forward was undone, and they took two leaps backward.

But I wouldn't trade Magic for Jimbo at any time under any circumstances. Magic was seduced by the Lebron dream / LeGM nightmare.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
We are actually discussing if it was better to keep Jim.


The Sky has already fallen.


Not really. We’re discussing a rewind: Would you undo all of the things that Magic did during his tenure? This isn’t about restoring Jim Buss.

Magic spent a couple years dumping assets to clear cap space for a second superstar. If the second superstar does not arrive this summer, then Magic’s tenure will have been a comprehensive failure. This includes the signing of Lebron. Now Magic has thrown the team into turmoil right before the critical free agency period. Wonderful.


The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject:

What's funny is if not for Mozdeng, we would actually be in a pretty desirable place right now. The entire young core plus two max players.
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