If you could rewind to Pre-Maginka era, would you?
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Would you rewind to before Magic and Pelinka took over the front office?
Yes
73%
 73%  [ 61 ]
No
26%
 26%  [ 22 ]
Total Votes : 83

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trablos
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
What's funny is if not for Mozdeng, we would actually be in a pretty desirable place right now. The entire young core plus two max players.


Except the Russell trade was completely unnecessary. We could've packaged Moz as salary filler using Russell to help land us AD.

lol c'mon man. I agree we could have waited a year to move Russel or found a different way to dump MozDeng, but the Pels wanted us to take on Solomon Hill AFTER giving up the farm. There is a 0 chance they take back a bad contract while giving us AD.
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Threatt_Level
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
What's funny is if not for Mozdeng, we would actually be in a pretty desirable place right now. The entire young core plus two max players.


Except the Russell trade was completely unnecessary. We could've packaged Moz as salary filler using Russell to help land us AD.

lol c'mon man. I agree we could have waited a year to move Russel or found a different way to dump MozDeng, but the Pels wanted us to take on Solomon Hill AFTER giving up the farm. There is a 0 chance they take back a bad contract while giving us AD.


We didn't have Russell to offer them. Ingram and Lonzo, despite all their potential, are still playing like scrubs. Russell is actually playing well and living up to his potential. That would've eliminated a lot of risk from the Pels side that made them try to force Hill on us. Moz would've been off the books next year.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I'm taking receipts in this thread. Not in a mean way. But there are alot of people who prefer no Lebron. That is what you are voting on when you say "pre-Maginka".


I'm of the belief that we would've still gotten LeBron even if Jim Buss was still in charge. So, that's not what I'm saying at all. The people saying we never should've gotten LeBron or that we should trade LeBron are wrong.


Stephen A and Jalen Rose both said the complete opposite yesterday. Lebron doesn't come if Magic isn't here. Lebron would've turned down Jim and Mitch like the lesser free agents before him. Stephen A and Jalen's words. Not mine.
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RealSkipBayless
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject:

No thanks. Unless I could swap Lebron for PG13. Only thing I'd change on this path would be how Randle and Zubac was handled. The sky is not falling despite what everyone is making out our situation to be.

We keep going with the old management that gave Free agents the impression we aren't serious about winning, we would prob sign more dumb contracts. Having zero hope and going nowhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
Dbask, Agree to disagree. I had so little faith I. Mitch and Jim at the end. Not only were they not signing stars, they were saddling us with poor contracts. Partly because of desperation but when Aldridge essentially gives you a pity 2nd meeting to redeem yourself, you know the free agency dooor is shut.

Let’s say we decided to trade lebron today, I’m guessing someone gives us 3-4 first rounders, and maybe a solid young player.

That more than makes up for the majority of guys we lost. People crying over losing nance and Clarkson (not saying this is you) is just laughable. Those types of guys are relatively easy to replace. And nance was due for a bigger deal which there’s no way we should have given him anyway.

Drafting wise, I’d give a slight edge to Mitch and Jim, but not even sure about that.

And believe me, I was frustrated by magic but I thought he could at least lock in a big fish. That wasn’t a possibility with Mitch.


We can agree to disagree all we want but at the end of the day Mitch and Jim were executives when the lakers:

-had winning records
-made the playoffs
-won championships

Magic Johnson as an executive had the lakers:

-under .500
-no playoffs
-zero championships

That's the big difference in this comparison despite what people feel for either side. Between a what if scenario of having Mitch/Jim again vs reliving maginka, the former is better simply because of objectivity.

It's like saying Carmelo Anthony was a better player than Kobe because you disliked the black mamba. No matter the feelings, the rings and accolades of Kobe will always shine through and put him as the better player in comparison.

Similarly, magic's lack of success is the reason he'll always fall behind in these debates. Mitch/Jim just have to point to their rings as executives and the argument is over.

HOF Rookie wrote:
Dbask, also regarding Russell. He openly did he didn’t know what it took to be a professional during his years here. The trade was definite a wake up call.

This is where deng could have helped but Russell wasn’t serious about things until he left.


Russell was immature but the issue is how much of it narrative driven vs reality. With the hit pieces out there, he was seen as a true headcase like nick young, jr smith, etc.

Again he doesn't make those changes in Brooklyn as quickly if he was close to that level of immaturity. The fact Russell was willing to publicly admit his mistakes shows how much of his perception was distorted here in LA.

Having verterans is important but ultimately you must have the personality to change and see it through. Such a personality is either intrinsic or takes years to develop. That's why a possible "what if" question is able to be asked given how he acts in brooklyn vs what he preceived in LA.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.


With Jeanie Buss running the team
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.


Fair enough. Personally, I think the mess started with the old regime, but earlier than most people think. I think it goes back to the unwillingness to bite the bullet and starting rebuilding after 2011 or 2012. I don’t really fault the old regime, either. They had Kobe, and they wanted to milk one more title out of him. Rebuilding sucks, so I can’t blame the old regime for trying to put it off.
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kwase
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject:

The only thing good that came out of it was trading DLo that eventually got us Kuzma. I'm ok with that because Dlo is immature. Other than that, everything they've done has been a disaster, including signing lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
The only thing good that came out of it was trading DLo that eventually got us Kuzma. I'm ok with that because Dlo is immature. Other than that, everything they've done has been a disaster, including signing lebron.


Signing LBJ could very well turn out to be a disaster (and it’s looking that way so far) but if you have the chance to sign him, you sign him. I was of the mindset get PG and let’s roll with him and our draft picks from the last few years and see if that can win once GS inevitably gets dethroned.

Oh well, at least Zion is coming.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.


With Jeanie Buss running the team


I thought Jimmy was in charge of ‘basketball operations’

Maybe he was just a figurehead according to you?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
The only thing good that came out of it was trading DLo that eventually got us Kuzma. I'm ok with that because Dlo is immature. Other than that, everything they've done has been a disaster, including signing lebron.


DLO is an all star, Kuzma shouldn’t be starting. What the heck are you talking about?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.


With Jeanie Buss running the team


I thought Jimmy was in charge of ‘basketball operations’

Maybe he was just a figurehead according to you?


Jeanie has been in charge for every lottery season except for the Bynum one. She spent a lot of time making sure that people knew that.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject:

PG13 and DLO would of been a great combo....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject:

So, you're asking if we had a time machine, the first and only thing we'd do is go back two years into the past and hatch up a plan to keep Magic and Pelinka out of the Lakers front office.

I tell you, there would be a lot of other things I'd probably do first.
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rami34
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject:

With this mess that's been brewing. Jim/Kupchak era looks pretty good right now. Remember, Kupchack, not Maginka, is responsible for 2017 draft, as it was his year(s)-long scouting and draft board at his firing 2 months before the draft.

Last edited by rami34 on Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject:

Yes. Get rid of Jim Buss and bring in someone competent.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject:

RealSkipBayless wrote:
No thanks. Unless I could swap Lebron for PG13. Only thing I'd change on this path would be how Randle and Zubac was handled. The sky is not falling despite what everyone is making out our situation to be.

We keep going with the old management that gave Free agents the impression we aren't serious about winning, we would prob sign more dumb contracts. Having zero hope and going nowhere.


I share the same sentiments. We are still in a good position this offseason:

-LeBron
-Lonzo
-Ingram
-Kuzma
-Hart
-Lotto Pick
-Max Cap Space
-Wagner

All positive assets. Way more than we had or would have had with previous management.
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject:

Picks/talent/money things we never had prior to pelinka
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Hanging from Rafters
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject:

I voted no. We are better off now than we were after the MozDeng fiasco. If the terms had been three years instead of four as it should have been maybe we can say would be in a similar situation but with 4 years, meaning MozDeng still eating up $35mil in cap space next year then no revisit.

Presumably We’d have Dlo, Clarkson, Lou, Randle, Nance, Zubac instead of LeBron with about the same cap space. That’s if 3 years but it was 4 so no.

That extra year changes everything because Randle would be off his rookie contract so we’d have to pay him and also Ingram’s cap hold would limit ability to sign max free next year. If the contracts of MozDeng were 3 years we could sign max free because we would not have had to sign Randle yet or deal with Ingram’s cap hold.

tl/dr
The 4th year of MozDeng contracts would have still turned out worse is a revisit scenario than to just move formats due to Randle’s rookie contract and Ingram’s cap hold.


Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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10scott10
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject:

I would say yes. I predicted this to be a disaster when it happened, and I have yet to be proven wrong.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
The Magic and Jim Buss regimes are linked. You really cant talk about the moves Magic made without a discussion of Jim and Mitch’s moves.


I agree that Magic operated in the environment left behind by the old regime, but if you are suggesting that the old regime's failures justify Magic's decisions, I disagree. There has been a long-term tendency by some people to answer every criticism with "But he's better than Jim Buss" or "But look at the mess Jim Buss left behind." That's an apology, not a justification. Magic operated under the circumstances that existed, but if a move sucked, it sucked.


The old regimes mistakes don’t excuse the new one’s but it gives a clear picture of where this mess truly started.


With Jeanie Buss running the team

I don't know how you keep repeating this when she had no involvement in basketball operations before dumping Jim. If anything, in the 2 short years that she's made her only basketball related decision, we are better off than where we were before.
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Hanging from Rafters
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Then again, not sure where I am on that, having second thoughts. The team would probably be able to easily move the MozDeng expiring contracts this summer in a trade for a max which maybe would have made the team better off.
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