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adkindo
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 Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Adkindo. I have 3 questions.
If we assume the higher number of suicide rates for transgender people is only correlated and not caused. What would be the cause for the increase in suicide rate?
What percentage of the people referring to Caitlin Jenner as Bruce Jenner on twitter are referring to Olympics feats? And what percentage do you think is hate speech? |
I do not know the answer to any of your questions, but the problem with the research presented is its conclusions appear to be heavily influenced by assumptions. There is a story out the last 24 hours about how a high number of Indian students are committing suicide throughout the nation because they performed poorly on a standardized test, and the auto grading may have been flawed. Is Twitter carving out a new rule and creating a protected class for highly competitive South Asian nation students? Did online harassment or the fear of online harassment lead these students to commit suicide? We know that war veterans have an astronomical suicide rate, but Twitter has not banned users from saying horrific things about the US Military and soldiers on their platform.
You mention that you may listen to the podcast, and I say this with no ill intent, but if you plan on listening to find support for your beliefs, then you will just have wasted 3 hours of your life. If you are unable to separate your ideology and beliefs from being factual or everyone else's truth, then there really is no point. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Adkindo. I have 3 questions.
If we assume the higher number of suicide rates for transgender people is only correlated and not caused. What would be the cause for the increase in suicide rate?
What percentage of the people referring to Caitlin Jenner as Bruce Jenner on twitter are referring to Olympics feats? And what percentage do you think is hate speech? |
What percentage of what you would call "hate speech" is driven by hatred of transgender people, and what percentage is instead driven by hatred of our PC culture, Bruce Jenner and the Kardashians, the perception that Jenner is a publicity addict, and weariness with being told what we can and cannot say because it might offend someone else's values? From my experience (which may not be representative), the latter group of factors is a lot more important than hatred of transgender people. Hating transgender people is related to, but distinct from, hating Jenner, the Kardashians, the PC culture, and the omnipresent watchdogs of proper thought. |
Just an FYI, but pretty much none of the people who routinely savage my son make the point of telling him that they are just tired of PC or the Jenners/Kardashians. They do it because they are bigots, and when they talk about PC, it's just rage at not being able to run around calling other people slurs without repercussion.
There's a wide discussion to be had on PC, and on freedom of speech (both in the governmental sphere and the private one), and on boundaries and where they should be set. And on why the right to say something is reciprocated by the right to react to it. And a lot of people will disagree on a lot of it. And that's an evolving conversation worth having.
But let's not act like people hate other groups of people and call them slurs because they are normally just happy accepting folks who must hold their nose and utter those slurs and hate speech as a necessary and reasonable commentary on those boundaries.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | To me I see a public company trying to protect their bottom line ($ from advertisers) |
This was pointed out on the podcast, and Twitter vehemently denied advertising dollars are related to this rule or any other. |
It's hard for me to believe they don't care about their shareholders and the bottom line. But I do recognize I'm being cynical.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | If you haven’t heard it, check out Joe Rogans podcast with Jack Dorsey, Vijaya Gadde and Tim Pool. Very interesting discussion regarding the censorship policies on Twitter. |
I looked at this....and saw it was over 3 hours long, and thought I will never get through this in the way that I listen to podcasts....mostly in my car. Then I have been in may car for a few hours.....made it through about 1.5 hours, and was so interested, did not want to exit car!
Why in the world did Jack Dorsey and Vijaya Gadde even consider walking into this format with Rogans and Pool? They had to know Rogan is not the type of dude to let them spin bs, and so far Pool has literally obliterated them at every point. The scariest part is to think Gadde is buried so deep within her world bubble that she actually believes some of the things she claims.
She basically claims the findings of this Pew Research are false, albeit the report came after her appearance. There were a couple of instances that she simply was being dishonest, or she does not know the accurate answer....one was when she claimed that all reported Tweets are reviewed in a queue and and their position is not related to the # of times reported, which suggests that coordinated efforts would not be beneficial in getting someone suspended or banned.....but I specifically recall in front of Congress, they claimed that the # of times reported directly influenced its position in a queue which is exactly how these coordinated efforts to silence users work. |
I think a lot of it was arrogance and they underestimated Pool. Rogan interviewed Dorsey fairly recently on his own and got a lot of flack for not addressing the issues they discussed in this pod. Dorsey and Gadde are clearly extremely intelligent and likely believed that was enough. Rogan wouldn’t let them BS but he also isn’t as educated on the topic. Tim Pool on the other hand had thoroughly prepared which allowed Rogan to see when they started BSing. Dorsey and Gadde had no chance to be prepared to address everything Pool confronted them with. Seemed like they knowingly walked into an ambush at times.
I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Really eye opening stuff. |
Funny, I had the exact opposite perspective of the show than you guys. I thought for the most part they did a good job explaining why they make the decisions they make when they deplatform people, and the three strikes you are out policy seems reasonable. At the same time, they conceded that they’ve made mistakes but that they are doing their best to get it right while growing their business. They do need to do a better job explaining why they deplatform people.
I was also impressed with Pool. IMO, His best point which Rogan agreed with was that they shouldn’t be banning people for making jokes, and shouldn’t be banning people for being factually correct about calling them by their true gender. |
I thought they did a good job of explaining the rules and agree the three strikes rule is reasonable. I also thought Pool provides waves of evidence that showed those rules have not been fairly enforced to both sides of the aisle. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | To me I see a public company trying to protect their bottom line ($ from advertisers) |
This was pointed out on the podcast, and Twitter vehemently denied advertising dollars are related to this rule or any other. |
That was one of the times I thought they blatantly lied. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Adkindo. I have 3 questions.
If we assume the higher number of suicide rates for transgender people is only correlated and not caused. What would be the cause for the increase in suicide rate?
What percentage of the people referring to Caitlin Jenner as Bruce Jenner on twitter are referring to Olympics feats? And what percentage do you think is hate speech? |
What percentage of what you would call "hate speech" is driven by hatred of transgender people, and what percentage is instead driven by hatred of our PC culture, Bruce Jenner and the Kardashians, the perception that Jenner is a publicity addict, and weariness with being told what we can and cannot say because it might offend someone else's values? From my experience (which may not be representative), the latter group of factors is a lot more important than hatred of transgender people. Hating transgender people is related to, but distinct from, hating Jenner, the Kardashians, the PC culture, and the omnipresent watchdogs of proper thought. |
Just an FYI, but pretty much none of the people who routinely savage my son make the point of telling him that they are just tired of PC or the Jenners/Kardashians. They do it because they are bigots, and when they talk about PC, it's just rage at not being able to run around calling other people slurs without repercussion.
There's a wide discussion to be had on PC, and on freedom of speech (both in the governmental sphere and the private one), and on boundaries and where they should be set. And on why the right to say something is reciprocated by the right to react to it. And a lot of people will disagree on a lot of it. And that's an evolving conversation worth having.
But let's not act like people hate other groups of people and call them slurs because they are normally just happy accepting folks who must hold their nose and utter those slurs and hate speech as a necessary and reasonable commentary on those boundaries. |
I believe you, but I’m talking about Twitter and social media, specifically in connection with Jenner. Some of it is absolutely bigotry. Some of it comes from different sources. I would not generalize based on reactions to Jenner. My comment goes no further than that. |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | If you haven’t heard it, check out Joe Rogans podcast with Jack Dorsey, Vijaya Gadde and Tim Pool. Very interesting discussion regarding the censorship policies on Twitter. |
I looked at this....and saw it was over 3 hours long, and thought I will never get through this in the way that I listen to podcasts....mostly in my car. Then I have been in may car for a few hours.....made it through about 1.5 hours, and was so interested, did not want to exit car!
Why in the world did Jack Dorsey and Vijaya Gadde even consider walking into this format with Rogans and Pool? They had to know Rogan is not the type of dude to let them spin bs, and so far Pool has literally obliterated them at every point. The scariest part is to think Gadde is buried so deep within her world bubble that she actually believes some of the things she claims.
She basically claims the findings of this Pew Research are false, albeit the report came after her appearance. There were a couple of instances that she simply was being dishonest, or she does not know the accurate answer....one was when she claimed that all reported Tweets are reviewed in a queue and and their position is not related to the # of times reported, which suggests that coordinated efforts would not be beneficial in getting someone suspended or banned.....but I specifically recall in front of Congress, they claimed that the # of times reported directly influenced its position in a queue which is exactly how these coordinated efforts to silence users work. |
I think a lot of it was arrogance and they underestimated Pool. Rogan interviewed Dorsey fairly recently on his own and got a lot of flack for not addressing the issues they discussed in this pod. Dorsey and Gadde are clearly extremely intelligent and likely believed that was enough. Rogan wouldn’t let them BS but he also isn’t as educated on the topic. Tim Pool on the other hand had thoroughly prepared which allowed Rogan to see when they started BSing. Dorsey and Gadde had no chance to be prepared to address everything Pool confronted them with. Seemed like they knowingly walked into an ambush at times.
I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Really eye opening stuff. |
Funny, I had the exact opposite perspective of the show than you guys. I thought for the most part they did a good job explaining why they make the decisions they make when they deplatform people, and the three strikes you are out policy seems reasonable. At the same time, they conceded that they’ve made mistakes but that they are doing their best to get it right while growing their business. They do need to do a better job explaining why they deplatform people.
I was also impressed with Pool. IMO, His best point which Rogan agreed with was that they shouldn’t be banning people for making jokes, and shouldn’t be banning people for being factually correct about calling them by their true gender. |
I thought they did a good job of explaining the rules and agree the three strikes rule is reasonable. I also thought Pool provides waves of evidence that showed those rules have not been fairly enforced to both sides of the aisle. |
He did come prepared with waves of evidence, but in almost every case they had the details of why the people were deplatformed and there was more to the story than he was aware. There were a handful of cases where they were unaware of the situation he was describing, and in those cases they were at a distinct disadvantage, but agreed they'd take another look.
To me, their problem is that very few people (if anybody) knew about their three strikes rule. So Pool was pulling a lot of cases where one person was banned for something but it was their third strike, while other people weren't banned for something similar, but it was only their first or second strike.
I'm not saying they aren't biased in how they are enforcing their rules, it's logical that there is some bias...but I was actually surprised at how reasonable they were. The other interesting topic was how they enforce rules globally, according to local culture and customs. That seems dangerous. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Just an FYI, but pretty much none of the people who routinely savage my son make the point of telling him that they are just tired of PC or the Jenners/Kardashians. |
just beyond this discussion.....there are just really terrible people among us. I fully understand not all people will agree with or support another persons lifestyle choices because of religion, culture, politics, etc.....but why make an effort to hurt anyone's feelings when they have zero effect on your life. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Adkindo. I have 3 questions.
If we assume the higher number of suicide rates for transgender people is only correlated and not caused. What would be the cause for the increase in suicide rate?
What percentage of the people referring to Caitlin Jenner as Bruce Jenner on twitter are referring to Olympics feats? And what percentage do you think is hate speech? |
What percentage of what you would call "hate speech" is driven by hatred of transgender people, and what percentage is instead driven by hatred of our PC culture, Bruce Jenner and the Kardashians, the perception that Jenner is a publicity addict, and weariness with being told what we can and cannot say because it might offend someone else's values? From my experience (which may not be representative), the latter group of factors is a lot more important than hatred of transgender people. Hating transgender people is related to, but distinct from, hating Jenner, the Kardashians, the PC culture, and the omnipresent watchdogs of proper thought. |
You're a smart guy . . . smart enough to know that people aren't attacking transgender people online simply because their personal PC Limits were exceeded.
But your choice to use the words "hatred of our 'PC Culture'" explains a lot about why invoke such intellectual dishonesty.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | I'm not saying they aren't biased in how they are enforcing their rules, it's logical that there is some bias...but I was actually surprised at how reasonable they were. The other interesting topic was how they enforce rules globally, according to local culture and customs. That seems dangerous. |
I felt like they went to the excuse well a little too often....like everytime they got backed into a corner, they would claim it is about the context....then in many cases when they would read word for word, it still seemed to appear heavy handed based on ideology. Just a couple examples were the verified professor who called for the murder of the Covington kids three times, and they finally made him delete 2 tweets.....compared to suspensions and banishment for others who did not come close to calling for followers to murder children. Then you had them making excuses on why they had taken little to no action against Antifa users who routinely post and promote violence on the platform.....while choosing to ban all accounts connected to the Proud Boys, even going as far as repeating the false claim that the Proud Boys were on an official terrorists list...again while Antifa is actually listed on one or two states official terrorism lists. The most absurd one in my opinion was the suspension for the guy that responded to the transgender user "Dude, come on".....which is common phrasing used with males and females...and the context suggested that "dude" was not a reference to "male". Rogan and Pool were simply pointing out that while there are cases that may go the other way.....95% or more seem to flow in one direction.
I also thought a very weak excuse was claiming that "liberal" users are much more likely to report other users than "conservative" users. While that may be true, it does not come close to accounting for the disparity. I mostly agree with Pool in that Twitter wants to be something that it clearly cannot be as long as they are deciding what is allowed and not allowed to be said on the platform. I do not understand why Twitter just does not lean into the fact that they are in the San Francisco region which is one of the most recognized ideological bubbles in America, that is where their leaders live and most of their employees; hence their rules and platform overall will be a bias platform.
The big thing that I took away from the podcast trying to keep an open mind is that while there is real bias across the platform, it is usually not blatant, but simply inherit to the culture and humans making the decisions. I do not believe that the leaders or most employees are setting around trying to stick it to conservatives or non liberals.....but their views can be narrow when seeking solutions. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| adkindo wrote: | | I do not understand why Twitter just does not lean into the fact that they are in the San Francisco region which is one of the most recognized ideological bubbles in America, that is where their leaders live and most of their employees; hence their rules and platform overall will be a bias platform. |
Do you really not understand that? That would just suck them into a morass that they want to avoid. The Trumpistas are already on the war path. This is from Texas, but similar stuff is happening elsewhere.
Link
It’s probably preempted by federal law, but as we know, federal law can be changed pursuant to election results. Twitter and the other sites would never want to give the Trumpistas ammunition. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I do not understand why Twitter just does not lean into the fact that they are in the San Francisco region which is one of the most recognized ideological bubbles in America, that is where their leaders live and most of their employees; hence their rules and platform overall will be a bias platform. |
Do you really not understand that? That would just suck them into a morass that they want to avoid. The Trumpistas are already on the war path. This is from Texas, but similar stuff is happening elsewhere.
Link
It’s probably preempted by federal law, but as we know, federal law can be changed pursuant to election results. Twitter and the other sites would never want to give the Trumpistas ammunition. |
I guess I just do not understand the free speech argument. Twitter is not a government entity, but a publicly traded private entity.....why are they obligated to provide or ensure free speech? The absolute worst solution is any type of government enforced regulation on a company like Twitter. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is. |
You are referring to the article that utilizes a single source who claims to be an employee at Twitter and remains anonymous....and everything he/she claims is directly refuted by a Twitter spokesperson in the same article? That is the one that you feel is "all you need to know"? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| adkindo wrote: | | I guess I just do not understand the free speech argument. Twitter is not a government entity, but a publicly traded private entity.....why are they obligated to provide or ensure free speech? The absolute worst solution is any type of government enforced regulation on a company like Twitter. |
I agree about government regulation. However, while you’re right about free speech in the constitutional sense, they are still subject to government regulation. That could lead to a slippery slope, obviously. The government regulation itself could violate the first amendment. This is why the Trumpistas are trying to pitch it as a consumer protection measure. If you say you’re neutral, you must really be neutral. Of course, only the Texas AG could sue, so the disguise is thin. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is. |
You are referring to the article that utilizes a single source who claims to be an employee at Twitter and remains anonymous....and everything he/she claims is directly refuted by a Twitter spokesperson in the same article? That is the one that you feel is "all you need to know"? |
They also recently suspended a left wing journalist for bringing attention to a white supremacist meme so that article is fake news.
It’s those types of mistakes that are the main problem. I’ve been on Twitter for years and never seen a white supremacist post. I do hear about them though. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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That podcast was an interesting listen.
When Rogan complained about white people being mocked on twitter I broke into laughter, because that is a shocking takeaway.
Yes there is a genetic difference between a cis gender male or female and a transgender male or female. And if a tweet is talking in that scientific regard, it shouldn't be removed. If it's used in a derogatory way or as a slur. I'm glad Twitter removes it. Like any other slur.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| kikanga wrote: | That podcast was an interesting listen.
When Rogan complained about white people being mocked on twitter I broke into laughter, because that is a shocking takeaway.
Yes their is a genetic difference between a cis gender male/female and a transgender male/female. And if a tweet is talking in that scientific regard, sure it shouldn't be removed. If it's used in a derogatory way or as a slur. I think Twitter is doing the right thing removing it. |
Agree. But thats why a policy around misgendering is more problematic than just saying that derogatory terms or slurs will be banned. Context is so important.
Case in point. Uber responded to a customer on Twitter using the N-word today. They deleted the tweet, but it turns out the user changed their name to the N-word and Uber used automation to craft the reply.
Then the user posted the reply to show how racist Uber is.
Context.
https://mashable.com/article/uber-racist-tweet/ |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Agree. But thats why a policy around misgendering is more problematic than just saying that derogatory terms or slurs will be banned. Context is so important.
Case in point. Uber responded to a customer on Twitter using the N-word today. They deleted the tweet, but it turns out the user changed their name to the N-word and Uber used automation to craft the reply.
Then the user posted the reply to show how racist Uber is.
Context.
https://mashable.com/article/uber-racist-tweet/ |
Surprised someone can name themself the N-word on twitter. I bet they'll fix that. There is no ambiguity in that case. It's a MAGA troll exposing a bot and probably getting their rocks off because they got Uber to tweet the N-word.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is. |
You are referring to the article that utilizes a single source who claims to be an employee at Twitter and remains anonymous....and everything he/she claims is directly refuted by a Twitter spokesperson in the same article? That is the one that you feel is "all you need to know"? |
Well, there's one other thing: There's a very prominent elected official who routinely engages in dangerous hate speech on Twitter who has never been sanctioned or shutdown . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | I’ve been on Twitter for years and never seen a white supremacist post. I do hear about them though. |
I've seen them in the sports discussions that people link on this board. |
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JamezAmp
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is. |
You are referring to the article that utilizes a single source who claims to be an employee at Twitter and remains anonymous....and everything he/she claims is directly refuted by a Twitter spokesperson in the same article? That is the one that you feel is "all you need to know"? |
Well, there's one other thing: There's a very prominent elected official who routinely engages in dangerous hate speech on Twitter who has never been sanctioned or shutdown . . . |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | I’ve been on Twitter for years and never seen a white supremacist post. I do hear about them though. |
I've seen them in the sports discussions that people link on this board. |
it has been a while, but someone pointed some out to me a several years ago....I was pretty shocked....they were pretty open with their views, symbols and flags. I did not dig deep to see if they were directing their views directly at an individual. Maybe they were removed...have no idea, or any recollection of their name. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | All you need to know about the leadership at Twitter was summed up in the third post in this thread: They won't ban Alt-Right White Nationalist speech because doing so would force them to also ban many GOP members in office . . .
If something is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who the source is. |
Did you listen to the podcast? |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52657
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Your Move Twitter . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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