Twitter is an "echo chamber" that doesn’t reflect how most Americans think
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Huey Lewis & The News
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
>a thread where ringfinger and adkindo are attacking harmful media biases and the left™ emerges as the primary perp and the biggest bully


didn't see that coming at all. Let me pose a question to both of you scholars:

Which media entity has done more to damage the world's social and political climate: Fox News or Twitter?


I don't think I nor adkindo ever said the left is the primary perp and biggest bully. Did I? Or did he?

We're talking about whether there is an echo chamber on Twitter.

I personally believe there is one. The reason we got into the discussion around media is because someone earlier had mentioned that all the hate comes from the right.

My counter to that, is that that is the perception because of the way "hate" is framed mainly by prominent figures on the left. If you say you want, say, Romney because he isn't black, we'd probably (hopefully) all say that is racist and hateful. But if you say, I want Kamala Harris because she isn't white, only the left does not count that as hate or racism even though it is the exact same statement. And not only do they not count it, they promote that type of thinking and the media is complicit in that as well (I can provide as many examples as you can handle, lol). I'm not sure this point rises to the level of "left is primary perp and biggest bully" but maybe you were referencing something else.

To give you a separate example ... there were articles recently about some conservative, alt-right types who were booted off of Facebook recently. Remember that? The HuffPo article headline says "Facebook Bans Alex Jones, Other Far-Right Extremists"

Can someone explain to me how Louis Farrakhan is a far-right extremist? Isn't he a left wing anti-Semite?

Anyway -- that's how echo chambers are born. You set different rules for different people, and when one of your own breaks the rules, you either ignore it or lump them in with the other folks.


No, clever, you didn't state it in those words, but any takedown of an "echo chamber" that doesn't start with conservative news outlets raises eyebrows and makes one wonder "Why is this complaint so narrow in scope? Why not go back, not even that much further back in history to see what media entity, its audience, in support of which political ideology might have created the current climate of discourse and who was the best at sabotaging it?"

But then all questions are answered once you see who has such little self-awareness that they'd make complaints that come straight out of the tightest echo chamber of all time.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Twitter is whatever you want it to be.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject:

Ban or don't ban?
https://inews.co.uk/news/danny-baker-royal-baby-tweet-racist-twitter-joke-bbc-radio-presenter/
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Ban or don't ban?
https://inews.co.uk/news/danny-baker-royal-baby-tweet-racist-twitter-joke-bbc-radio-presenter/


Disgusting. But I would not ban. Warning/suspension.

Here’s a question. However you feel about it..

If you asked the question on Twitter and included his photo, should you be banned/punished just the same?
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ban or don't ban?
https://inews.co.uk/news/danny-baker-royal-baby-tweet-racist-twitter-joke-bbc-radio-presenter/


Disgusting. But I would not ban. Warning/suspension.

Here’s a question. However you feel about it..

If you asked the question on Twitter and included his photo, should you be banned/punished just the same?


Sure. If that's the site rules. Especially when the site says you can comment on controversial posts without retweeting them.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ban or don't ban?
https://inews.co.uk/news/danny-baker-royal-baby-tweet-racist-twitter-joke-bbc-radio-presenter/


Disgusting. But I would not ban. Warning/suspension.

Here’s a question. However you feel about it..

If you asked the question on Twitter and included his photo, should you be banned/punished just the same?


Sure. If that's the site rules. Especially when the site says you can comment on controversial posts without retweeting them.


Well, that’s part of the problem. The rules ... aren’t clear.

Not that I think the way LG does it is perfect by any stretch, but I do like the rule of attack the post not the person. No more shaming, no more trying to one up another person, etc.

I believe they have discussed doing away with responding to people, and instead, you discuss topics or something like that.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Well, that’s part of the problem. The rules ... aren’t clear.

Not that I think the way LG does it is perfect by any stretch, but I do like the rule of attack the post not the person. No more shaming, no more trying to one up another person, etc.

I believe they have discussed doing away with responding to people, and instead, you discuss topics or something like that.


FWIW. I have no problem if a company wants to ban someone if they tweet the first 1/2 black person born into the royal family is a monkey.
Putting morals aside. I can see how that hurts the bottom line. Especially if it's retweeted numerous times.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:

Well, that’s part of the problem. The rules ... aren’t clear.

Not that I think the way LG does it is perfect by any stretch, but I do like the rule of attack the post not the person. No more shaming, no more trying to one up another person, etc.

I believe they have discussed doing away with responding to people, and instead, you discuss topics or something like that.


FWIW. I have no problem if a company wants to ban someone if they tweet the first 1/2 black person born into the royal family is a monkey.
Putting morals aside. I can see how that hurts the bottom line. Especially if it's retweeted numerous times.


How do you feel about Twitter warning/suspending/banning an American citizen for violating Pakistan blasphemy law?

Or how about a tweet calling Jews termites? Should that be banned?

(And I don’t agree about banning that person on the first instance. But if we are going to ban people for making racist comments, that must include comments about whites such as #CancelWhitePeople, for example, yes?)

My point in all this is not so much to say that the way it is managed on Twitter is not consistent or ideologically neutral. (Thus echo chamber)
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
How do you feel about Twitter warning/suspending/banning an American citizen for violating Pakistan blasphemy law?

(And I don’t agree about banning that person on the first instance. But if we are going to ban people for making racist comments, that must include comments about whites such as #CancelWhitePeople, for example, yes?)


Are you talking about 1 example or 2? What are you referencing? I don't know.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
How do you feel about Twitter warning/suspending/banning an American citizen for violating Pakistan blasphemy law?

(And I don’t agree about banning that person on the first instance. But if we are going to ban people for making racist comments, that must include comments about whites such as #CancelWhitePeople, for example, yes?)


Are you talking about 1 example or 2? What are you referencing? I don't know.


Sorry, my post was confusing. You said you would ban that user right? Presumably because it is a racist post.

Well what I’m trying to tell you is that Twitter doesn’t ban racist posts, or even threats of violence, if they are coming from the left.

You have a NY Times editor whose post “Cancel White People” has been sitting there for almost 5 years and still there today. Heck, Louis Farrakhan’s post calling jews termites back in October 2018 is STILL there. But oh, we can’t possibly have an AOC parody account.

This is what drives people crazy. What are the rules? Clearly racism is not grounds for banishment so it seems ideologically based. It’s why Twitter is an echo chamber.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:10 pm    Post subject:

This thread is an echo chamber.
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
This thread is an echo chamber.

See?
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:06 am    Post subject:

Hahaha. Good one JMK =)
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:


Sorry, my post was confusing. You said you would ban that user right? Presumably because it is a racist post.

Well what I’m trying to tell you is that Twitter doesn’t ban racist posts, or even threats of violence, if they are coming from the left.

You have a NY Times editor whose post “Cancel White People” has been sitting there for almost 5 years and still there today. Heck, Louis Farrakhan’s post calling jews termites back in October 2018 is STILL there. But oh, we can’t possibly have an AOC parody account.

This is what drives people crazy. What are the rules? Clearly racism is not grounds for banishment so it seems ideologically based. It’s why Twitter is an echo chamber.


Twitter should follow facebook and instagram's lead and ban Farrakhan.

Sarah Jeong mimicked the language of her harassers sarcastically. And apologized for it. Unlike the journalist who called the 1/2 black royal family member a monkey. So I'd probably suspend instead of ban.

Not familiar with the "cancel" meme though. What does it mean? Ignore? Kill? If it's the latter. A ban would be appropriate.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Thanks for the link adkindo. I was too young to vote but I staunchly identified with Republicans back in 2007, so I appreciate your perspective.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this a fair description?

A group led by Ted Kennedy and President GWB made a plan for immigration reform.
When sent to Congress the plan was altered and then voted on.
Democrats supported the final bill moreso than Republicans. Since Republicans didn't like the changes made in Congress.


it is a little more complicated than that....yes the bill became too much like "amnesty" for Republicans....but the real blame for the Republicans falling off was idiots on conservative talk radio using it as an issue to rile up listeners to the point they began to put pressure on the Republican Senators. Around that time is when I mostly abandoned conservative talk radio because it was clear to me their motives were self interest and not about conservatism. As I said in a previous post....it is one of those issues that both parties use to their advantage.....it is a real issue, but an issue that could be significantly improved and have beneficial results for Americans, Immigrants, the economy, etc., but it will require both parties to actually want a resolution.....I doubt that ever happens as long as both parties feel like they can squeeze an additional vote from the issue.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
This thread is an echo chamber.

See?


actually, this thread has been fairly balanced in discussion.....there is only one thread on LG that is a pure echo chamber.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
>a thread where ringfinger and adkindo are attacking harmful media biases and the left™ emerges as the primary perp and the biggest bully


didn't see that coming at all. Let me pose a question to both of you scholars:

Which media entity has done more to damage the world's social and political climate: Fox News or Twitter?


First, why enter the conversation with such snark? Second, there is no comparison in the two. Fox News is one of many options to receive 24 Hours news. It reports from a conservative (actually more Republican than conservative) perspective. Every other option for 24 Hour news reports from a liberal Democrat perspective, as does Network News. It is a clear option....the push of a button. Twitter mostly holds a monopoly for daily micro blogging. Sure there are other options, but they are minuscule in comparison to Twitter. Therefore if you wish or feel the need to engage in that format daily on topics, Twitter is the only real option. I personally do not hold any news station or social media platform directly responsible for the current political climate.....and Fox News definitely bears no more responsibility than the other news outlets.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
This thread is an echo chamber.

See?


actually, this thread has been fairly balanced in discussion.....there is only one thread on LG that is a pure echo chamber.


I feel ya. The favorite books thread is filled with steinbeck virtue signaling.
It's all:

"I like Steinbeck more."

"No... I like Steinbeck more."
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

Does Google 'Top Stories' Have a Liberal Bias? Research Says Yes

Quote:
Google's algorithm gives 86 percent of its Top Stories results to articles from just 20 outlets, with Democrat-leaning CNN, The New York Times and The Washington Post alone accounting for a whopping 23 percent of article impressions in the aggregator, a study published in the Columbia Journalism Review has revealed.


Quote:
The study, created by researchers from Northwestern University, reached its conclusions after focusing on a single month, November 2017, and calculating which sources received favoured status among the 6,302 articles which appeared in Google's 'Top Stories' box that month.


Quote:
The study found that CNN was the number one source, with a full 10.9 percent of all coverage, with NYT and WaPo in second and third place, with 6.5 percent and 5.6, respectively. Fox News, the main conservative outlet in the US, received just 3 percent of the top story spots.


Quote:
According to the researchers, 62.4 percent of the stories which made it into Top Stories were from sources that were liberal-leaning, with 11.3 percent coming from conservative-leaning sources. The remaining 26.3 percent were from sources not rated on the left-right spectrum.


Quote:
added that what is known is that Google's algorithm "converts to real and substantial amounts of user attention and traffic," making their selection in the Top Stories box and which outlet wrote them extremely powerful.


LINK

much more disturbing than Twitters bias moderation....
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject:

is sputniknews a joke?

According to The New York Times Sputnik engages in deliberate disinformation,[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Does Google 'Top Stories' Have a Liberal Bias? Research Says Yes

Quote:
Google's algorithm gives 86 percent of its Top Stories results to articles from just 20 outlets, with Democrat-leaning CNN, The New York Times and The Washington Post alone accounting for a whopping 23 percent of article impressions in the aggregator, a study published in the Columbia Journalism Review has revealed.


Quote:
The study, created by researchers from Northwestern University, reached its conclusions after focusing on a single month, November 2017, and calculating which sources received favoured status among the 6,302 articles which appeared in Google's 'Top Stories' box that month.


Quote:
The study found that CNN was the number one source, with a full 10.9 percent of all coverage, with NYT and WaPo in second and third place, with 6.5 percent and 5.6, respectively. Fox News, the main conservative outlet in the US, received just 3 percent of the top story spots.


Quote:
According to the researchers, 62.4 percent of the stories which made it into Top Stories were from sources that were liberal-leaning, with 11.3 percent coming from conservative-leaning sources. The remaining 26.3 percent were from sources not rated on the left-right spectrum.


Quote:
added that what is known is that Google's algorithm "converts to real and substantial amounts of user attention and traffic," making their selection in the Top Stories box and which outlet wrote them extremely powerful.


LINK

much more disturbing than Twitters bias moderation....


Twitter just suspended Ray Blanchard, a PhD sex researcher for exactly what I’m not sure but he is trending. Sounds like some of his research findings might conflict with feelings on transsexualism.

Anyway, yeah I did see this report but I have some questions.

For starters, Fox is the only conservative outlet in the mainstream media. Also, sites with a lot of traffic are generally considered by its algorithm to be more relevant for matched keyword queries. The primary news outlets are almost entirely left leaning.

So how do you get around that? I don’t even know if one should.

Its like if you search for “cycle”, the majority of the results will be about bicycles. Not unicycles or tandem bikes. That isn’t necessarily bias, but more, a reflection of the existing landscape tied to “cycles”.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
is sputniknews a joke?

According to The New York Times Sputnik engages in deliberate disinformation,[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)


not sure...I have never heard of it....but the study was reported through many media outlets over the weekend. I skimmed the actual report released by the Northwestern researchers....not a very exciting read. Again, just google "Northwestern | Google | Liberal" over the last 3 or 4 days to find another source.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Twitter just suspended Ray Blanchard, a PhD sex researcher for exactly what I’m not sure but he is trending. Sounds like some of his research findings might conflict with feelings on transsexualism.

Anyway, yeah I did see this report but I have some questions.

For starters, Fox is the only conservative outlet in the mainstream media. Also, sites with a lot of traffic are generally considered by its algorithm to be more relevant for matched keyword queries. The primary news outlets are almost entirely left leaning.

So how do you get around that? I don’t even know if one should.

Its like if you search for “cycle”, the majority of the results will be about bicycles. Not unicycles or tandem bikes. That isn’t necessarily bias, but more, a reflection of the existing landscape tied to “cycles”.


the report claims that was their initial thoughts also, but the results were still leaning left at a higher level than the content generation gap. Also, their algorithms were picking up hard left propaganda sites like HuffPost in their Top 20, while no similar conservative sites were registering in the Top Stories.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
is sputniknews a joke?

According to The New York Times Sputnik engages in deliberate disinformation,[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)


some other links...

https://www.cjr.org/tow_center/google-news-algorithm.php

https://247wallst.com/media/2019/05/13/this-is-how-google-shapes-peoples-attention-to-the-news-2/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/12/google-top-stories-dominated-left-leaning-sources-/

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/05/googles-bias-quantified.php

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47085/confirmed-google-gives-left-wing-websites-ashe-schow

some consvervative leaning sites....but also Columbia Journalism Review and 247 Wall St........the bigger question is why did almost all mainstream news sources avoid reporting on the study?
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:33 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Twitter just suspended Ray Blanchard, a PhD sex researcher for exactly what I’m not sure but he is trending. Sounds like some of his research findings might conflict with feelings on transsexualism.

Anyway, yeah I did see this report but I have some questions.

For starters, Fox is the only conservative outlet in the mainstream media. Also, sites with a lot of traffic are generally considered by its algorithm to be more relevant for matched keyword queries. The primary news outlets are almost entirely left leaning.

So how do you get around that? I don’t even know if one should.

Its like if you search for “cycle”, the majority of the results will be about bicycles. Not unicycles or tandem bikes. That isn’t necessarily bias, but more, a reflection of the existing landscape tied to “cycles”.


the report claims that was their initial thoughts also, but the results were still leaning left at a higher level than the content generation gap. Also, their algorithms were picking up hard left propaganda sites like HuffPost in their Top 20, while no similar conservative sites were registering in the Top Stories.


That's probably the strongest argument, yeah. That "second tier" of sites that get play are almost always left leaning. The Daily Wire's, New York Post, etc don't get nearly as much play.

The other part that bugs me is that people will dismiss conservative leaning outlets as being right leaning. Which is fair, but they never issue a disclaimer when referencing left leaning media. (And to be fair, those on the right do this too).

Not having a politically neutral news source is highly problematic.
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