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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:37 am Post subject: |
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that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back.
Last edited by SGV-Laker fan on Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | There’s a gap between the clippers and lakers. |
Clippers advisor: Jerry
Lakers advisors: The Rambii
Gap indeed... |
Lakers championships: 17
Clippers championships: 0
GAP... IN...DEED... 
Kawhi has played 122 out of a possible 214 games, including playoffs (and counting) in his 3 seasons with the Clippers. And his chronically degenerative knees aren't going to magically get better with age. Even with all the "load management" (which is a deterrent to team chemistry) he still got an injury that has kept him out for most of this season.
I can only imagine the vitriol that would be coming from Lakers fans had their fantasy scenario of us signing Paul George + Kawhi without giving up any of our young players would've come to fruition and we'd be sitting here now with 0 championships in the last 12 seasons and a chronically injured franchise player. |
Clippers 22 wins, Lakers 22 wins. Each with a chronically injured star player. Not much of a gap. |
So 2020 championship didn't happen, right?
You must've been punching air after that. |
It’s 2022. Or continue to live in the past.
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Batguano
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Lakerz113 wrote: | | There’s a gap between the clippers and lakers. |
Clippers advisor: Jerry
Lakers advisors: The Rambii
Gap indeed... |
Lakers championships: 17
Clippers championships: 0
GAP... IN...DEED...
Kawhi has played 122 out of a possible 214 games, including playoffs (and counting) in his 3 seasons with the Clippers. And his chronically degenerative knees aren't going to magically get better with age. Even with all the "load management" (which is a deterrent to team chemistry) he still got an injury that has kept him out for most of this season.
I can only imagine the vitriol that would be coming from Lakers fans had their fantasy scenario of us signing Paul George + Kawhi without giving up any of our young players would've come to fruition and we'd be sitting here now with 0 championships in the last 12 seasons and a chronically injured franchise player. |
Clippers 22 wins, Lakers 22 wins. Each with a chronically injured star player. Not much of a gap. |
So 2020 championship didn't happen, right?
You must've been punching air after that. |
It’s 2022. Or continue to live in the past. |
It was 14 months ago. Literally a year and some change. Nice disingenuous math there. Of course you of all people would be the first to discredit that chip, since it doesn't fit your agenda. |
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Batguano
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
So how come the deep-pocket, forward-thinking Clippers with their perpetually injured star couldn't take advantage of those circumstances and win just one stinking title for their franchise? |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
because they actually played NBA teams in there and every one had the same setting while the Lakers were the ones losing home court advantage? |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: |
Is this serious? |
LOL, this is so obvious, Kurt Rambis could not hold any other coaching job in the league, the only way is to ride his wife's friendship with Jeanie for a free chance at coaching the Lakers. Ty Lue made a smart choice, who would want a snitch on his staff? |
Lol I remember Kurt coming on the radio when he was coaching Minnesota and he was yukking it up with Ireland that his team had no identity. His coaching record and stunts like that should be disqualifying. |
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Brawn13
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Posts: 3648
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
So how come the deep-pocket, forward-thinking Clippers with their perpetually injured star couldn't take advantage of those circumstances and win just one stinking title for their franchise? |
I don’t get the logic of trashing the lakers 2020 win. If it’s so easy…then that makes everyone else look even more pathetic. All the losers in that bubble will have their legacies tarnished forever then for failing to win?
We were the best team, we were going to win it all that year regardless of the situation. We played by the same rules everyone else did. Injuries and dumb trades have been our downfall since. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Brawn13 wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
So how come the deep-pocket, forward-thinking Clippers with their perpetually injured star couldn't take advantage of those circumstances and win just one stinking title for their franchise? |
I don’t get the logic of trashing the lakers 2020 win. If it’s so easy…then that makes everyone else look even more pathetic. All the losers in that bubble will have their legacies tarnished forever then for failing to win?
We were the best team, we were going to win it all that year regardless of the situation. We played by the same rules everyone else did. Injuries and dumb trades have been our downfall since. |
also that bubble title might have cost our 2021 season because of the short turn around. |
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sogood.
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
You're a moron. |
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2573
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sogood. wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
You're a moron. |
Address the post not the poster.
All teams competed on an equal footing, the team that played the best won. That is as fair as it can get.
In 20 years everyone will forget all the details, all that will be remembered is that with this title the Lakers tied the Celtics at 17.
And that is all that *THIS* proud Laker fan cares about. |
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Lonzo-Lite
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2022-01-20/bill-plaschke-on-lakers-and-coach-frank-vogel
| Quote: | | Kurt Rambis sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong. A coach getting publicly skewered and probably fired. Lofty banners obscured by dirty laundry. |
| Quote: | Remember in April 2019 when Johnson abruptly quit as the Lakers president, sending the organization spinning into weeks of confusion and embarrassment? Rob Pelinka was ridiculed, Kurt and Linda Rambis were ripped, and the coaching seat was soon swept clean.
It’s all happening again. |
| Quote: | | Vogel is under siege. The ugliness starts with his situation. The Lakers are preparing to make him the scapegoat for their personnel mistakes. It’s just a matter of time. He could be fired this week, or next week, or sometime next month, or this spring, but he will almost surely be fired for being unable to connect a passel of mismatched dots into a championship contender. |
| Quote: | | It’s not even remotely Vogel’s fault, but what are Pelinka and Rambis going to do, fire themselves? To save their jobs, they will willingly sacrifice the 2020 championship coach as if he has suddenly forgotten how to coach. They will betray one of the league’s defensive geniuses even though this team desperately needs to improve on defense. They will release a good guy to protect their bad ideas. |
| Quote: | Vogel took a long time to meet the media afterward. He made a slow walk from the locker room to the interview room. He kept his head down.
In a massive gesture to the misguided front office, Vogel didn’t play celebrated acquisition Russell Westbrook in crunch time, benching him for the final 3:52, a move that led Westbrook to leaving the court and heading for the locker room in the final eight seconds.
“Playing the guys I thought were going to win the game,” Vogel said.
This will not endear Vogel to a front office just waiting to cut him loose.
They’ve already embarrassed him by privately yakking about his situation so much that their thoughts have landed in the media. |
| Quote: | Now Rambis, who quietly has great influence over the basketball operation with wife Linda, is even further embarrassing Vogel by sitting in daily coach’s meetings.
It’s unhealthy, it’s unprofessional, and it all points to Rambis working his way back to a spot on the bench with the coaching staff, a place where he’s never fit.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Could be Plaschke being Plaschke...but man, if Rambis thinks he has a chance in hell of coaching again, I can't think of anything funnier. There are very few coaches in recent memory who were more hated by his players. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^^ agreed with that piece. Rambii is using the Lakers' struggle for their own benefit. Rambis can very well become the next head coach, and we all know once you get that post as an ex-Laker, you won't get fired easily. this is all on Jeannie Buss, what a shame this franchise has become. |
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Mamba Mentality
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Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yo so deep conspiracy time. Do you think the Rambii would go to lengths of decimating a contending team and acquiring RW, knowing it would fail so Kurt can take over as coach after scapegoating Vogel?
Sounds crazy, but I can see it with all these crazy reports out.
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danzag
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaschke is a Laker hater but he's completely right on this one |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba Mentality wrote: | Yo so deep conspiracy time. Do you think the Rambii would go to lengths of decimating a contending team and acquiring RW, knowing it would fail so Kurt can take over as coach after scapegoating Vogel?
Sounds crazy, but I can see it with all these crazy reports out. |
That’s all on Pelinka, he’s been trying to build a super team every offseason.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba Mentality wrote: | Yo so deep conspiracy time. Do you think the Rambii would go to lengths of decimating a contending team and acquiring RW, knowing it would fail so Kurt can take over as coach after scapegoating Vogel?
Sounds crazy, but I can see it with all these crazy reports out. |
i don't think Rambii are the force behind the Russ trade, they have no such pull. but you have to admit if Lakers are chugging along just fine, there's no way Kurt Rambis would've sniff a spot on the coaching staff, which is his ultimate career goal. |
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bluehill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| "working his way back to a spot on the bench" - is not quite right. If Rambis really wanted to coach, he would have still been coaching. Outside of Minnesota, all of his coaching positions have come from his Laker connection. That's some exceptionalism right there. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I am no Rambis fan but chances are he was in on coaching meetings from the start. Meaning in the title run he was probably sitting in on them then as well.
The issue isn’t Rambis sitting on meetings.
It’s not Vogel schemes.
Its Rob making that WB trade. WB with depth. You can find ways to win with. Unfortunately the trade killed our depth and 2 way balance.
In the end Rob has to make up for this. I hope he can. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, they've been controlling Vogel from the start. The reasons Lue/Monty were turned off were 1) Salary 2) Assistants.
Lakers want a FO that is alligned with the coach. In that way I always felt Vogel was a great choice, he didn't seem like he cared about stuff like that, he just wanted to focus in on building a strong defense.
The thing the FO has to realize, they not only kept controlling his staff, short changed him on contract length/years, they then went on and traded away all his best defenders who knew his schemes. Caruso, KCP, Kuz. Only Trez wasn't a good defender in that group. We also let Dennis walk, and Dennis is a high motor defender too.
In the end it is what it is, but to me it's not that Rambis is sitting on meetings and lives in the 70s/80s and suggests DeAndre play more. The root issue is still that there's debates on how to play and who to play because the WB trade was awful. We just have to first accept that, and evaluate everyone after first acknowleding that. How many coaches have given up on WB? |
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deal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I am no Rambis fan but chances are he was in on coaching meetings from the start. Meaning in the title run he was probably sitting in on them then as well.
The issue isn’t Rambis sitting on meetings.
It’s not Vogel schemes.
Its Rob making that WB trade. WB with depth. You can find ways to win with. Unfortunately the trade killed our depth and 2 way balance.
In the end Rob has to make up for this. I hope he can. |
The entire league is seeing the Lakers bleed out. I think GM's will probably
either sit back and let us continue to free fall or ask for ridiculous trade
alternatives (AD types).
We'll see if there is a fix but the FO carved the hole.
To be clear, I do hope there is a fix, I don't see it but hope there
is one.
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | that 2020 bubble title is not a real title. how can you compare a fan-less tournament at a neutral site after 4 months of layoff to a real regular season--> playoffs--> Finals settings? NBA made the bubble tournament because they don't want the 2020 title to be vacated when people looking back. |
Why do you find those particular differences as the barometer for it being a "real" title? Is the suggestion that it was an easier set of circumstances? Or that the outcome wasn't legitimate somehow?
The players had to contend with the fear and uncertainty of COVID, of deciding to leave their families and being quarantined, of violent civil unrest and political turbulence. The Lakers themselves didn't get home court advantage despite being the #1 seed, lost a starter who decided not to go to Orlando, and didn't know their first round opponent until a day before the series because of the play-in. All of that on the heels of Kobe's passing.
Yeah, they saved some travel, didn't have to hear opposing fans chant "you suck" on the road, and may have benefitted from handling the circumstances better than some of their opponents. But that makes it not real? The case that it was one of the most difficult titles in sports history is far stronger. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:45 am Post subject: |
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^@LF: Obviously SGV will answer it their own way, but this is how I see the bubble title (I know I know, you didn’t ask haha).
First off I respect the title and I respect the fans that cherish it. After all, it tied us with the cbags, so it is something. That being said, I really want them to prove that title wasn’t a fluke (which imho is a legit narrative btw). Not only will they prove that it’s not a fluke if they win it under a more traditional NBA calendar (sans a 4 month pause in-season), but yet will also finally achieve #18 in doing so, making us the winningest franchise over those same cbags. After all, roster construction should reflect durability and the capability of navigating through an 82 game schedule, then immediately traversing the postseason to be the final team standing. Injuries are part of the “norm”…COVID 4 month rest stops are not!
It’s true we were the #1 seed that didn’t receive a more traditional home court. However, the housing they got to stay in while in the bubble boasted as one of Disney’s premier resorts. So although it wasn’t home, it still was something for the top seeded teams in their conferences to have earned as a top seed.
But here’s the real benefit to the bubble title…you give a guy like Bron, who is all about self care, the opportunity to recharge. That season, he was our de facto lead PG and if it wasn’t for the 4 month layoff, it’s possible Bron burns out and playoff Rondo is more regular season street clothes Rondo. Those were are only legitimate perimeter oriented playmakers. Give them an 82 game schedule followed by a deep playoff run and I’m not sure they have enough in the tank to get a ring. The quick turnaround from the bubble title to the 2020/21 season should tell us enough about how a veteran team will handle such a strenuous schedule.
AD had to battle through 2 injury scares in the bubble…after a 4 month break. Imagine if dude had to run through the rigmarole of the regular season before heading straight into playoffs….would that dude still be the superior “bubble AD” we all saw dominate the competition?
But aside from all that potential flukey mess, is the justification that our FO did well in creating a title roster. Rob/Kurt are given a pass by their supporters because they put together a title roster. Imho, they absolutely lucked out with the COVID break.
If Bron, AD and our vets from that team like Rondo, Green, Dwight, Kieff, etc all burned out under a normal NBA calendar heading into the playoffs, and then came up short towards our title run, what would our current FO’s resume look like?
Would it warrant more patience or urgency in seeing their vision through or not? And personally that’s the most disturbing part of that bubble title.
Look at this way, if the smart & savvy guy most of the fan base believes Rob to be decided to dismantle his title team so quickly, why do most of you that believe in Rob think he did that? There must have been a reason he quickly moved on from Green….right?
He scrambled to use up our cap space after we missed on Kawhi. So obviously his plan A did not materialize the summer of 2019. He must have known that roster was not sustainable in keeping Bron fresh for future postseason runs. So the first chance he got in reschruffling the deck, he took it. Wonder why?
I cede in disputing that the bubble title is legit. It does absolutely count for something. However, I do believe our FO has yet to prove that their roster construction for that season was flukey AF.
Needless to say, our situation does not improve till we reshuffle our FO. I have no faith in their ability to run our bball ops.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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How many champs go back to back? Easy to say you want to prove it wasn't a fluke, reality is injuries etc derail it.
did the SAS ( serious question) go back to back after their shortened season ring? If they didn't was that one in particular a fluke? If Bucks don't repeat does it mean it was a fluke because of all the injuries to other teams?
I agree that bron having a ton of rest helped, but so did other good teams. plus we weren't just good in the bubble we throttled teams.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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^Has there ever been a season like the bubble season? Imho, you gotta prove that you are a legit title contender coming off such an unique season like that one.
To each their own, but I just see it a completely different way than some of you. Also I am not a fan that most use that bubble title as justification to remain status quo and patient with our current FO.
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