I Formally Apologize to Jim Buss
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Jeanie has been the chief steward over the past 6 years.

No she hasn't. Jim/Mitch were running thigns before Magic/Pelika 2 years ago. Jaenine's only moves have been to hire them and sign Lebron, that's it.

So I'm not really sure why people are coming down on her. Other than the BS Bucher spread Linda Rambis nonsense.

-contracts Mitch signed were fixed
-signed Lebron
-Luke is gone like people wanted
-have a max slot this off-season.

What exactly is the problem? Is it Jeannie's fault that Lebron pouted this season, and did a crap job as a leader? I really shake my head at the state of some Laker fans who live and die by what First Take tells them to think.


How did Jeanie fire Jim? She wasn't over him on the org chart?

And Jeanie didn't hire Magic who constructed that awesome team around LBJ?

I laugh at the lack of objectivity here.

Where did I say Jeannie fired Jim? Clearly he was forced out of running things for the Lakers though.

And yeh she hired Magic/Pelinka, and again, we got Lebron and way more cap space than with Jim/Mitch. Only reason the Lakers are in the playoffs is due to injuries and Lebron/Klutch pushing the AD crap. Now we'll get a coach likely better than Luke, and have space to add more help.


No, who fired Jim? It was Jeanie, who has been presiding over this mess the past 6 years. I didn't like Jim, but Jeanie inexplicably gets a pass from people who absolutely killed Jim.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
What Jeanie has been great at is deflecting the blame.

Now the whole veneer is stripped. Jim is gone. Magic is gone. It's all her.

And I do agree (and hope) we can turn it around this summer. But at this current moment (6 years in the making), things aren't rosy.

I just don't get the panic, outside of Lebron's people. The plan was to run this season with the young core + Lebron and then sign a max FA, none of that has changed. Magic didn't like to be criticized, but we already saw that act when he made a comeback in 96', and was coach too. Magic helped get Lebron here, so his purpose was served. Looking at the West with KD leaving GS, and CP3 declining, I think things look pretty good.


It's not a 1 year creation. It's 6 years in the making. The plan wasn't to flame out like this, have Magic walk out, fire Luke, then get rejected by their #1 coaching candidate over 2 years.

Luck can be the residue of design.

But the Lakers getting a max FA would be simply luck. We are just a wreck organizationally speaking.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject:

This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.

and that would have ZERO to do from leadership of Jeanie
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.

and that would have ZERO to do from leadership of Jeanie


Oohhh I get it. All the blame. None the credit. Like Magic and Lebron.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Jeanie has been the chief steward over the past 6 years.

No she hasn't. Jim/Mitch were running thigns before Magic/Pelika 2 years ago. Jaenine's only moves have been to hire them and sign Lebron, that's it.

So I'm not really sure why people are coming down on her. Other than the BS Bucher spread Linda Rambis nonsense.

-contracts Mitch signed were fixed
-signed Lebron
-Luke is gone like people wanted
-have a max slot this off-season.

What exactly is the problem? Is it Jeannie's fault that Lebron pouted this season, and did a crap job as a leader? I really shake my head at the state of some Laker fans who live and die by what First Take tells them to think.


How did Jeanie fire Jim? She wasn't over him on the org chart?

And Jeanie didn't hire Magic who constructed that awesome team around LBJ?

I laugh at the lack of objectivity here.

Where did I say Jeannie fired Jim? Clearly he was forced out of running things for the Lakers though.

And yeh she hired Magic/Pelinka, and again, we got Lebron and way more cap space than with Jim/Mitch. Only reason the Lakers are in the playoffs is due to injuries and Lebron/Klutch pushing the AD crap. Now we'll get a coach likely better than Luke, and have space to add more help.


No, who fired Jim? It was Jeanie, who has been presiding over this mess the past 6 years. I didn't like Jim, but Jeanie inexplicably gets a pass from people who absolutely killed Jim.

Jim/Mitch were running basketball decisions, not Jeannie. She didn't take over til 2 years ago.

No one's giving her a pass, but it makes no sense to blame her for Jim?Mitch's decisions. She was running the business side. When KL comes to the Laker, how many of you will be backtracking I wonder. Laker fans didn't used to be this fickle. No thanks to saying sorry to the Bynum whisperer Jim, or Mitch who never saw a bad contract he didn't like to sign. Did people forget the horrible jon Mitch did with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Or the Shaq trade where we didn't get Wade and took Grant? or Jim wanting to trade Kobe and go with Bynum? The people who sided Mike Brown!
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Jim/Mitch were running basketball decisions, not Jeannie. She didn't take over til 2 years ago.

No one's giving her a pass, but it makes no sense to blame her for Jim?Mitch's decisions. She was running the business side. When KL comes to the Laker, how many of you will be backtracking I wonder. Laker fans didn't used to be this fickle. No thanks to saying sorry to the Bynum whisperer Jim, or Mitch who never saw a bad contract he didn't like to sign. Did people forget the horrible jon Mitch did with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Or the Shaq trade where we didn't get Wade and took Grant? or Jim wanting to trade Kobe and go with Bynum? The people who sided Mike Brown!


According to your logic, she hasn't "taken over" yet either b/c it was Magic/Rob making the "basketball" decisions much like Jim/Mitch were.

Common denominator? Jeanie.

Again, I've repeatedly acknowledged that we may luck into getting a max level FA, but that doesn't mean it's a panacea. We are running a 2000s level front office against teams that are ages ahead technologically/personnel wise.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.

So getting rid of the bad cotnracts, signing Lebron, and then Kawhi in just 2 years as head of Basketball ops, are all panacea?

Why? Because Ric "I will sell my house if Kobe shows up in 2008" Bucher says Linda Rambis is shadow owner? What has Jeannie done that is making people panic?
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.

So getting rid of the bad cotnracts, signing Lebron, and then Kawhi in just 2 years as head of Basketball ops, are all panacea?

Why? Because Ric "I will sell my house if Kobe shows up in 2008" Bucher says Linda Rambis is shadow owner? What has Jeannie done that is making people panic?


It's not a panacea. B/c if you don't have the institutional structure to guide 2 max FAs, then what's the point? Bad coach? Poor GM/POBO, no analytics, poor training/health.

Yes, basketball is played by players and the stars usually dictate how far you will go. No arguments there. But we have not built a good house inside, or we have not been promoting the right people that should be (Joey and Jesse Buss for example) taking a more prominent role.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Jim/Mitch were running basketball decisions, not Jeannie. She didn't take over til 2 years ago.

No one's giving her a pass, but it makes no sense to blame her for Jim?Mitch's decisions. She was running the business side. When KL comes to the Laker, how many of you will be backtracking I wonder. Laker fans didn't used to be this fickle. No thanks to saying sorry to the Bynum whisperer Jim, or Mitch who never saw a bad contract he didn't like to sign. Did people forget the horrible jon Mitch did with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Or the Shaq trade where we didn't get Wade and took Grant? or Jim wanting to trade Kobe and go with Bynum? The people who sided Mike Brown!


According to your logic, she hasn't "taken over" yet either b/c it was Magic/Rob making the "basketball" decisions much like Jim/Mitch were.

Common denominator? Jeanie.

Again, I've repeatedly acknowledged that we may luck into getting a max level FA, but that doesn't mean it's a panacea. We are running a 2000s level front office against teams that are ages ahead technologically/personnel wise.

This makes no sense. We all know Jim said he would step down if he didn't turn things aorund. Jeannie made a power play to force him out of basketball decisions 2 years ago. Blaming her for Jim/Mitch's decision when she was running the business..quite well too, is a scapegoat.

I don't even know what a 2000s level FO means. Didn't we win 5 titles during that era? What has Houston won since the 90's with all the analytics crap they use? When LA gets Kawhi, they'll be instant contenders in the West. Just 2 years after Jim/Mitch left LA in disarray.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Jim/Mitch were running basketball decisions, not Jeannie. She didn't take over til 2 years ago.

No one's giving her a pass, but it makes no sense to blame her for Jim?Mitch's decisions. She was running the business side. When KL comes to the Laker, how many of you will be backtracking I wonder. Laker fans didn't used to be this fickle. No thanks to saying sorry to the Bynum whisperer Jim, or Mitch who never saw a bad contract he didn't like to sign. Did people forget the horrible jon Mitch did with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Or the Shaq trade where we didn't get Wade and took Grant? or Jim wanting to trade Kobe and go with Bynum? The people who sided Mike Brown!


According to your logic, she hasn't "taken over" yet either b/c it was Magic/Rob making the "basketball" decisions much like Jim/Mitch were.

Common denominator? Jeanie.

Again, I've repeatedly acknowledged that we may luck into getting a max level FA, but that doesn't mean it's a panacea. We are running a 2000s level front office against teams that are ages ahead technologically/personnel wise.

This makes no sense. We all know Jim said he would step down if he didn't turn things aorund. Jeannie made a power play to force him out of basketball decisions 2 years ago. Blaming her for Jim/Mitch's decision when she was running the business..quite well too, is a scapegoat.

I don't even know what a 2000s level FO means. Didn't we win 5 titles during that era? What has Houston won since the 90's with all the analytics crap they use? When LA gets Kawhi, they'll be instant contenders in the West. Just 2 years after Jim/Mitch left LA in disarray.


You are totally not understanding me at all. I'm actually trying to be objective here. I have no skin in the Jim camp as I hated his moves. I'm just saying that you can't kick the Jim can down the road; this is all Jeanie.

If you don't understand just how backwards our 2019 Lakers organization is re: the items I listed, not sure what to tell you. You conveniently use the Rox (who are only down 3-2 to a KD-less Warriors) but the Warriors are the team that uses analytics. So do all of the other top contending teams. And our training staff? Look at all the injury prone players we have.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.

So getting rid of the bad cotnracts, signing Lebron, and then Kawhi in just 2 years as head of Basketball ops, are all panacea?

Why? Because Ric "I will sell my house if Kobe shows up in 2008" Bucher says Linda Rambis is shadow owner? What has Jeannie done that is making people panic?


It's not a panacea. B/c if you don't have the institutional structure to guide 2 max FAs, then what's the point? Bad coach? Poor GM/POBO, no analytics, poor training/health.

Yes, basketball is played by players and the stars usually dictate how far you will go. No arguments there. But we have not built a good house inside, or we have not been promoting the right people that should be (Joey and Jesse Buss for example) taking a more prominent role.

Pelinka freed up room to sign Lebron and another max guy. Lebron signed whit him here. Pelinka singed a bunch of 1-yr deals so they can get a KL here now. So why is he getting killed? Mitch's history was horrible, and people act like the guy was Jerry West.

Also, Jeannie didn't hire Luke, that was Jim/Mitch. And before that they had Mike Brown and Mike Antoni. i'm still waiting to hear how Jeannie is the problem.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.

So getting rid of the bad cotnracts, signing Lebron, and then Kawhi in just 2 years as head of Basketball ops, are all panacea?

Why? Because Ric "I will sell my house if Kobe shows up in 2008" Bucher says Linda Rambis is shadow owner? What has Jeannie done that is making people panic?


It's not a panacea. B/c if you don't have the institutional structure to guide 2 max FAs, then what's the point? Bad coach? Poor GM/POBO, no analytics, poor training/health.

Yes, basketball is played by players and the stars usually dictate how far you will go. No arguments there. But we have not built a good house inside, or we have not been promoting the right people that should be (Joey and Jesse Buss for example) taking a more prominent role.

Pelinka freed up room to sign Lebron and another max guy. Lebron signed whit him here. Pelinka singed a bunch of 1-yr deals so they can get a KL here now. So why is he getting killed? Mitch's history was horrible, and people act like the guy was Jerry West.

Also, Jeannie didn't hire Luke, that was Jim/Mitch. And before that they had Mike Brown and Mike Antoni. i'm still waiting to hear how Jeannie is the problem.


I can't make you hear what you don't want to hear. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Jim/Mitch were running basketball decisions, not Jeannie. She didn't take over til 2 years ago.

No one's giving her a pass, but it makes no sense to blame her for Jim?Mitch's decisions. She was running the business side. When KL comes to the Laker, how many of you will be backtracking I wonder. Laker fans didn't used to be this fickle. No thanks to saying sorry to the Bynum whisperer Jim, or Mitch who never saw a bad contract he didn't like to sign. Did people forget the horrible jon Mitch did with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? Or the Shaq trade where we didn't get Wade and took Grant? or Jim wanting to trade Kobe and go with Bynum? The people who sided Mike Brown!


According to your logic, she hasn't "taken over" yet either b/c it was Magic/Rob making the "basketball" decisions much like Jim/Mitch were.

Common denominator? Jeanie.

Again, I've repeatedly acknowledged that we may luck into getting a max level FA, but that doesn't mean it's a panacea. We are running a 2000s level front office against teams that are ages ahead technologically/personnel wise.

This makes no sense. We all know Jim said he would step down if he didn't turn things aorund. Jeannie made a power play to force him out of basketball decisions 2 years ago. Blaming her for Jim/Mitch's decision when she was running the business..quite well too, is a scapegoat.

I don't even know what a 2000s level FO means. Didn't we win 5 titles during that era? What has Houston won since the 90's with all the analytics crap they use? When LA gets Kawhi, they'll be instant contenders in the West. Just 2 years after Jim/Mitch left LA in disarray.


You are totally not understanding me at all. I'm actually trying to be objective here. I have no skin in the Jim camp as I hated his moves. I'm just saying that you can't kick the Jim can down the road; this is all Jeanie.

If you don't understand just how backwards our 2019 Lakers organization is re: the items I listed, not sure what to tell you. You conveniently use the Rox (who are only down 3-2 to a KD-less Warriors) but the Warriors are the team that uses analytics. So do all of the other top contending teams. And our training staff? Look at all the injury prone players we have.

GD has Curry,KD, Klay, Dray. They win based on talent. Houston who hasn't done much in the playoffs. When the Lakers get KL, they'll immediately become a favorite to win the title.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:

Quote:
GD has Curry,KD, Klay, Dray. They win based on talent. Houston who hasn't done much in the playoffs. When the Lakers get KL, they'll immediately become a favorite to win the title.


So you're saying Warriors don't use analytics? Ok, this conversation has jumped the shark.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.


Isn't that what was said last summer with LBJ though?

My point is that even getting a 2nd max FA is not the panacea that I once thought. We have major internal issues. I'm more disturbed with the lack of a 2019 front office and organization. Outdated lack of analytics and training. Player development seems to be behind pace with other teams.

So getting rid of the bad cotnracts, signing Lebron, and then Kawhi in just 2 years as head of Basketball ops, are all panacea?

Why? Because Ric "I will sell my house if Kobe shows up in 2008" Bucher says Linda Rambis is shadow owner? What has Jeannie done that is making people panic?


It's not a panacea. B/c if you don't have the institutional structure to guide 2 max FAs, then what's the point? Bad coach? Poor GM/POBO, no analytics, poor training/health.

Yes, basketball is played by players and the stars usually dictate how far you will go. No arguments there. But we have not built a good house inside, or we have not been promoting the right people that should be (Joey and Jesse Buss for example) taking a more prominent role.

Pelinka freed up room to sign Lebron and another max guy. Lebron signed whit him here. Pelinka singed a bunch of 1-yr deals so they can get a KL here now. So why is he getting killed? Mitch's history was horrible, and people act like the guy was Jerry West.

Also, Jeannie didn't hire Luke, that was Jim/Mitch. And before that they had Mike Brown and Mike Antoni. i'm still waiting to hear how Jeannie is the problem.


I can't make you hear what you don't want to hear. If you're happy and you know it clap your hands.

I just want to know what Jeannie has done wrong is all. People are saying she should sell the team, and calling her worse than Jim/Mitch, just makes no sense. Looks more like Lebron backers in the media pushing a narrative to scapegoat.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
GD has Curry,KD, Klay, Dray. They win based on talent. Houston who hasn't done much in the playoffs. When the Lakers get KL, they'll immediately become a favorite to win the title.


So you're saying Warriors don't use analytics? Ok, this conversation has jumped the shark.

I never said GS didn't use analytics. I pointed at that the 4 all-stars on that roster is why they win. I also pointed out that Houston hasn't won jack with all the analytics they use. Analytics are vastly overrated, its still about talent on the floor.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I just want to know what Jeannie has done wrong is all. People are saying she should sell the team, and calling her worse than Jim/Mitch, just makes no sense. Looks more like Lebron backers in the media pushing a narrative to scapegoat.


I didn't say any of that. My post was to say that I (and speaking only for myself) owed Jim an apology b/c I didn't understand all the machinations going on behind the scene. I still would be fine with deposing him after Moz/Deng, but my vitriol towards him wasn't fully informed.

And I do think Jeanie does get a pass. I wish she'd take more ownership of the situation and hire basketball minds to do the work. I don't understand your LBJ argument as he is literally going to be the Lakers biggest positive asset to bring to the table for a top FA meeting. You don't get KL with bringing Lonzo/BI/Kuz to the table over LBJ. Game respects game and I guarantee you there's a reason why LBJ is doing his work on behalf of the Lakers in recruiting KL.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

Kobe Jocker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
GD has Curry,KD, Klay, Dray. They win based on talent. Houston who hasn't done much in the playoffs. When the Lakers get KL, they'll immediately become a favorite to win the title.


So you're saying Warriors don't use analytics? Ok, this conversation has jumped the shark.

I never said GS didn't use analytics. I pointed at that the 4 all-stars on that roster is why they win. I also pointed out that Houston hasn't won jack with all the analytics they use. Analytics are vastly overrated, its still about talent on the floor.


Of course talent wins. But analytics is a very important tool in the arsenal. We don't seem to use it. Plus our training and player development leave a lot to be desired. It's a shame b/c there is no salary cap on that and we are penny pinching.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
This thread will age poorly if we sign Kawhi this offseason.
Not to worry, we aren't.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject:

We were half Jeanie when we had Jim, and now we are full Jeanie Buss. You never go full Jeanie Buss.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
We were half Jeanie when we had Jim, and now we are full Jeanie Buss. You never go full Jeanie Buss.


“What do you mean, you people?”
“What do YOU mean, you people?”
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dubaholic1
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: I Formally Apologize to Jim Buss

yinoma2001 wrote:
Things may not have been optimal, but weren't as low as things are now. I pray that things will change, but maybe he wasn't the true problem with this franchise post Dr. Buss. (I've always been a Mitch fan so no apologies from me there for him).



Now you are praying things will change. Pretty different tune you are singing now. I told you what was gonna happen once Lebron came here.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 3:39 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
trablos wrote:
MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I told you guys all along that Jeanie was the problem



Same.

Amazing that Jim and Mitch's plan would have had us in a much better situation right now than the archaic one Jeanie brought back.

What plan? They still thought we were a playoff team up until the LMA debacle, then fell assbackwards into tanking. Let's not pretend they were steering us into clear waters. At least before Magic abruptly quit, we were looking like a team on the rise.


They started building through the draft and stopped really focusing on established stars.

They were building through draft and developing their own stars; DLO, Ingram, Randle, and Zu, almost every position filled.

I believe they would've gotten Zo or DeAndre fox to fit that mold and fill the point guard position.

They hired a young coach in Luke to develop with them and they were on an upward stride

EDITORS NOTE: But all that changed..when the Fire Nation arrived.

Then all that work fell to shambles when the new regime got hired and we went back to focusing on established stars. Our young players were reaching their potential else where and the Lakers were ready to trade all the young talent for Anthony Davis. It isn't hard to see Jim and Mitch's plan, but their plan were ruined.


Yep.
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