Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
12%
 12%  [ 51 ]
Yes
51%
 51%  [ 218 ]
Neutral
36%
 36%  [ 155 ]
Total Votes : 424

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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:28 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

Vogel is doing a great job with the defense.
But the offense needs work. Sometimes it gets stagnant and using too much isos and not enough motion.
Perhaps Kidd or Hollins can improve the offense by adding more plays and motion.
The Clippers hav great offensive sets with motion.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject:

Iso only 1.5% more than the Clippers with better iso-ing personnel. That's fine. It's not like we're doing a Houston
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha

Vogel has proven in his career he can gain respect and retrieve results in two places. His offense is a lot deeper than people realize - for example the Danny Green play to beat Dallas or the KCP plays. Those are set designs he has learned as a coach and some of them are from NCAA. Vogel is a far better coach than Lue, in terms of how much he understands the little things and the game.

For us it comes down to talent. Vogel has Lebron AD. Lue had Kyrie as well on top of LBJ and Love. With Kyrie you had that PnR and second elite ball handling threat. So the offense looks more creative when you have more elite creators.

Once we missed out on Kawhi, I give Vogel major ups for having the vision of building a defensive squad around a PG version of Lebron and AD the first option. This is the only way we could have contended once we wound up looking at role player FAs. Sure one could argue and criticize the FO for going for Kawhi instead of say other guard FAs like DLO Kemba etc but that is not on Vogel. Considering our roster, not a single coach I can think of could do more with it and get more wins to this point. But you don’t get brownie points in LA for being very good.

It’s about the playoffs and rings. So Vogel has a lot more to prove. His offense is rated within the top 4-6 in the NBA and this without a real point guard or secondary elite perimeter playmaker - which if you look at all the contending teams in the last 5-7 years have had.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject:

What do y'all think our record would be if we kept Luke and his staff on as HC?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
What do y'all think our record would be if we kept Luke and his staff on as HC?


Tough to answer right now. I'll have to check the tape first
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
What do y'all think our record would be if we kept Luke and his staff on as HC?


Luke went something like 34-3 with a Curry/Klay/KD/Dray lineup, so I’m thinking he would (bleep) up a Bron/AD team too much. Maybe Luke runs them to death, but overall, I’m sure our record would be similar to what it is now.

But the fact remains, our offense is too Bron-centric and when it comes to AD, we just posting him up. We relying pretty heavily on those two and it’s for good reason cause they superstars...but that still doesn’t mean more efficiency on offense wouldn’t be welcomed. Having it where Bron and AD do t have to do so much, would be ideal.

Wolf: that’s why I think a Lue/Vogel partnership wound have been great. Lue has 3 stars to work with in Cleveland, but thats the thing, he has previous rapport/chemistry with Bron. It would have made a lot of sense to pair those 2 up again, but we let proper cents get in the way. Wild!

Btw, here’s Cranjis (a more savvy X&o fan than I ever will be) staying his wants for a new head coach this past summer before talks fell apart with Lue.

Quote:
Cranjis Wouldn’t be Happy

Frank Vogel – Vogel is a strong defensive coach that needs a lot of help on offense. If you could promise to me that he’d be getting a new offensive coordinator and one that’s strong to replace whoever had that role for him in the past, I’d have interest. If not, I’d rather look elsewhere.

Update: Hearing that Vogel would be on Lue’s staff works for me, as he may be in position to handle the one side of the game he’s strong at and hopefully not get near touching the team’s offense.


https://www.bball-index.com/lakers-coaching-search/
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
What do y'all think our record would be if we kept Luke and his staff on as HC?


Tough to answer right now. I'll have to check the tape first



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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


The data you provided shows we do NOT run iso 92% of the time.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


The data you provided shows we do NOT run iso 92% of the time.


The data also provides that we have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays...and in some cases, we did it more than teams that have played 1-2 more games than us.

Ie. We play iso more than the majority of the league.
Ie. Data decisively disproves your claim of “we don’t iso”.
Ie.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


The data you provided shows we do NOT run iso 92% of the time.


The data also provides that we have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays...and in some cases, we did it more than teams that have played 1-2 more games than us.

Ie. We play iso more than the majority of the league.
Ie. Data somewhat decisively disproves your claim of “we don’t iso”.



Huh? The data you provided shows that of every 10 offensive plays, less than 1 play is an isolation play. We actually run pick and roll more than iso.

Using ranking makes no sense. Someone has to be 3rd since there are more than 2 teams in the league. If only the top two teams ran iso and no one else ever did, ever, the remaining 28 teams would be tied for 3rd with zero and any of those teams could be said to “have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays” even though they ran none at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


The data you provided shows we do NOT run iso 92% of the time.


The data also provides that we have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays...and in some cases, we did it more than teams that have played 1-2 more games than us.

Ie. We play iso more than the majority of the league.
Ie. Data somewhat decisively disproves your claim of “we don’t iso”.



Huh? The data you provided shows that of every 10 offensive plays, less than 1 play is an isolation play. We actually run pick and roll more than iso.

Using ranking makes no sense. Someone has to be 3rd since there are more than 2 teams in the league. If only the top two teams ran iso and no one else ever did, ever, the remaining 28 teams would be tied for 3rd with zero and any of those teams could be said to “have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays” even though they ran none at all.

WHAT?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Did you read the part about "late game strategy"? Not referring to the whole game.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
55 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
55 wrote:
He needs to come up with a better late game strategy. Leaving Davis and Lebron to iso is not the solution. Clips were still running plays in the end and got good looks.


That is what concerns me, there are no counter moves. Just let those two iso.


At least run a simple pick n roll to get a good look. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Seems lazy to iso and hope to get bailed out.


We don’t iso.

We play through two players but that is not necessarily an iso.

I have been asking for weeks now, on here, if we can run some plays for other players and no one is interested in doing that including Vogel lol


Oh we do run iso bro...3rd most in the league in fact.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals

Shoulda got Lue for the offense to pair with Vogs and his defense. How the FO blew that absolute layup hire is beyond comprehension.

Btw lmfao at Htown being in the 100%ile haha


The data you provided shows we do NOT run iso 92% of the time.


The data also provides that we have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays...and in some cases, we did it more than teams that have played 1-2 more games than us.

Ie. We play iso more than the majority of the league.
Ie. Data somewhat decisively disproves your claim of “we don’t iso”.



Huh? The data you provided shows that of every 10 offensive plays, less than 1 play is an isolation play. We actually run pick and roll more than iso.

Using ranking makes no sense. Someone has to be 3rd since there are more than 2 teams in the league. If only the top two teams ran iso and no one else ever did, ever, the remaining 28 teams would be tied for 3rd with zero and any of those teams could be said to “have the 3rd most total possessions dedicated to iso plays” even though they ran none at all.

WHAT?


What is confusing about that?

You can’t use ranking to make a quantifiable statement because ranking is relative.

I can be the third tallest person in a group of people and only be 5’7”. So I may be the third tallest, but not necessarily tall.

We are 3rd in iso plays but not run iso 92% of the time.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Disagree, if you were the third tallest in a group of 10, then 7 would think that you are tall.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Disagree, if you were the third tallest in a group of 10, then 7 would think that you are tall.


But I still wouldn’t be tall, which is the point.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Disagree, if you were the third tallest in a group of 10, then 7 would think that you are tall.


But I still wouldn’t be tall, which is the point.


But you would be, as you said it is relative. It is tough to argue that the Lakers don't iso the third most in the league but it is an argument if they do too much. That is a valid argument.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Disagree, if you were the third tallest in a group of 10, then 7 would think that you are tall.


But I still wouldn’t be tall, which is the point.


But you would be, as you said it is relative. It is tough to argue that the Lakers don't iso the third most in the league but it is an argument if they do too much. That is a valid argument.


Sure. We’re only 8 percentage points from running none at all ever.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

And I would argue that the issue is when we run iso, not the frequency.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
And I would argue that the issue is when we run iso, not the frequency.


Even if we’re ranked in the top 10 in iso play efficiency?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Vogel is mashing the right buttons.

He is no figurehead. He defense came up spades in this game. I am suprised he doesn't get more credit. His rotations with Dudley and Rondo and their play were highly effective when the Lakers centers were in foul trouble. He brought Caruso in at the right time, and the whole defense looked consistent throughout. No one missed a beat. I am pretty impressed.

They must really go at it in practice.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:50 pm    Post subject:

I wonder if getting out on the break was a team conscious decision.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
I wonder if getting out on the break was a team conscious decision.


After the Christmas game apparently the shooters got on Lebron to play with more pace so they can get in a rhythm. Lebron started playing with more pace, Rondo did not.

I'm hoping Rondo got that same message recently. Vogel keeps emphasizing pace in his interviews
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject:

He’s a good coach but still not sold on him. I see some cracks when he faced some adversaries last month. He seems to have solid game plan though and attentive to details. Only worries me is he ain’t that big picture type so he could be very well outcoach when it matter especially in a series.
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