Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
11%
 11%  [ 47 ]
Yes
49%
 49%  [ 198 ]
Neutral
38%
 38%  [ 154 ]
Total Votes : 399

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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject:

at one point our lineup was

Rondo
KCP
LBJ
AD
Dwight

lol
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:26 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
at one point our lineup was

Rondo
KCP
LBJ
AD
Dwight

lol

And you wonder why we sucked so bad?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject:

I still don’t like the offense we run, most of the rest of the league have moved forward.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I still don’t like the offense we run, most of the rest of the league have moved forward.


QFT. Flummoxed by any team with above average defense because of it. Rondo is virtually unusable anymore - league has changed.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:15 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I still don’t like the offense we run, most of the rest of the league have moved forward.


There is no offensive system. It's just lebron ball
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danzag
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:55 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
at one point our lineup was

Rondo
KCP
LBJ
AD
Dwight

lol


Ugh.
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Cutheon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Probably his worst coached game last night. That second quarter rotation with Rondo, LBJ, and Davis made no sense. We spent that entire time losing ground and wasting LBJ's minutes by relegating him to a corner, only to double down with the next rotation by removing LBJ and keeping Rondo out there for Davis. Why? What on earth would compel Vogel to think that wasting a precious LeBron shift alongside Rondo was the right call? Why relegate LBJ to a spot up guy? If you are going to let rondo run the offense, let LBJ sit and bring him back with 6 minutes to go fully rested, don't blow his second quarter shift with (bleep) Rondo.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I still don’t like the offense we run, most of the rest of the league have moved forward.


There is no offensive system. It's just lebron ball

It's not "LeBron ball" but it definitely leaves a lot to be desired in cleverness. I still vividly remember people on this forum laughing off the importance of an offensive coordinator because having LeBron-AD + shooters meant that all you would have to do is roll the ball out and watch them go. Yeah, that's how championships are won.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Cranjis goes in...and it’s like I feared.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_NBA/status/1219651259424215041

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_NBA/status/1219662699665219584

Quote:
Byron Scott -> Luke Walton -> Vogel is quite a terrible run of offensive schemes

There are other areas that can be pointed at as org issues. For this, LA has just had some sequencing of staffs with a deficiency in this specific area.


Quote:
The Celtics coaching staff schemed advantages for their players twice as frequently as the Lakers’ staff.

Twice as many 0.5-2 step advantages most times on a defender.

Twice as many opportunities for the defense to miscommunicate.

Twice as many chances to pull in help defense.


Our offensive efficiency is largely due to Bron’s brilliance in playmaking. If he goes down or is having an off night...yikes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:34 pm    Post subject:

Vogel probably would've picked a good guy to design his offense if he had been given the freedom to do so. I don't put these offensive struggles solely on him. He's an NBA coach, so he definitely has a working knowledge of good offense at this level, it's just that offense is not his area of expertise.
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drae
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:37 am    Post subject:

Frank Vogel gets asked a question with the premise that Alex Caruso is probably not going to make it as an all star starter. He responds, to laughs, “Come on Laker nation! Pick up your voting!”

https://twitter.com/taniaganguli/status/1220121532921470982
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:15 am    Post subject:

Our offense is rated in the top 5 in the NBA last I checked, and I can not remember a single team that ran a bad "outdated" offense end up with that kind of results.

Usually when teams are doing stuff that is outdated or not working in the era, the advance stats ratings of the team's offense and the overall stuff shows just that. All this comes down to is basically some want ZERO post ups in our offense, or call any team that runs a post up outdated. Which is BS, to me, because we have post up threats in Lebron and AD that are actually dominant in those situations. It is not like we are posting up McGee and Howard or Kuzma. We are posting up AD, and periodically Lebron.

For example, Mike D'Antoni gets hailed as this offensive genius, and while he is a good coach on offense, despite having little roster turnover and making a big move for another star in Westbrook, the team has not really improved with making that trade. Harden isolates more than any player in the league. D'Antoni has not been able to win or even utilize the 2 stars to their max potential (only Harden is maxing out his potential).

What we run, it is maximizing AD and Lebron. You can see it right away, the two of them play great off each other and work well in this offense together. If you have a guy in Bron who now at age 35 is still way stronger and skilled around the basket than his opposing defender, why ask Lebron not do that? Same with AD, he is good at post ups. I would not post them up all the time, but the offense has to be focused on penetration - by dribbling, by passing to players on the move to the basket or by post ups. That is when we play well, we do all those 3 things.

The flaws in the offense, if you go back to all Lebron James team, they have those same flaws. What often happens with a Lebron team, is the team starts to become very dimensional on Lebron's kick outs and Lebron's handling of the ball. Why do you think Cleveland surrounded him with 3 point shooters, defenders and guys that just play a role around him? Why do you think Lebron only won a ring with Kyrie or Wade? Never without one. He went to a zillion finals without one, but he did not win a ring without that 2nd all-star ballhandling guard.

We have a coach who understands exactly who Lebron is, and exactly what he wants AD to be. And he keeps the role players in line, playing within their role. That's all you can really ask at this point. You can't teach Lebron to play the game different than he has his entire career. What we need to do is hope a) Lebron and AD are so good together that it discounts the need for a second all-star guard (ala Shaq-Kobe) or b) Lakers make a trade for that 2nd all-star level guard using Kuzma and other assets.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
at one point our lineup was

Rondo
KCP
LBJ
AD
Dwight

lol


So that was the Celtics game.
That lineup played 5 mins.
Ortg: 140
Drtg: 150

The offense was fine. The defense sucked. :\
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Vogs on Kuz:

“We want to be opportunistic in looking for ways to get Kuz at the three. I think we even had him at the two for a little stretch with LeBron out there. We can’t do that every night, can’t do that against the Boston Celtics who play four smalls and a big but these guys are huge. They play really big and rebounding is a concern, so we were able to do it.”
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Vogs officially clinched the coaching gig for the west all-stars.

Wonder how strategic he will be in playing Bron/AD vs Kawhi and other western foes if Bron ends up picking them for the squad.

https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1220551508607098880
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Congrats on coaching the all star game, coach!

But why they gotta use these pics of coach?

https://twitter.com/NBAAllStar/status/1220560286589079552/photo/1
https://twitter.com/theScore/status/1220552945500147712/photo/1
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:40 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Congrats on coaching the all star game, coach!

But why they gotta use these pics of coach?

https://twitter.com/NBAAllStar/status/1220560286589079552/photo/1
https://twitter.com/theScore/status/1220552945500147712/photo/1


Just hating. It's extra scratch in Vogel's pocket who is doing a bang up job managing vets, getting them time, and getting them to play defense throughout the slog for the most part. Well deserved.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject:

I mean Phil did more managing than coaching.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:23 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Our offense is rated in the top 5 in the NBA last I checked, and I can not remember a single team that ran a bad "outdated" offense end up with that kind of results.

Usually when teams are doing stuff that is outdated or not working in the era, the advance stats ratings of the team's offense and the overall stuff shows just that. All this comes down to is basically some want ZERO post ups in our offense, or call any team that runs a post up outdated. Which is BS, to me, because we have post up threats in Lebron and AD that are actually dominant in those situations. It is not like we are posting up McGee and Howard or Kuzma. We are posting up AD, and periodically Lebron.

For example, Mike D'Antoni gets hailed as this offensive genius, and while he is a good coach on offense, despite having little roster turnover and making a big move for another star in Westbrook, the team has not really improved with making that trade. Harden isolates more than any player in the league. D'Antoni has not been able to win or even utilize the 2 stars to their max potential (only Harden is maxing out his potential).

What we run, it is maximizing AD and Lebron. You can see it right away, the two of them play great off each other and work well in this offense together. If you have a guy in Bron who now at age 35 is still way stronger and skilled around the basket than his opposing defender, why ask Lebron not do that? Same with AD, he is good at post ups. I would not post them up all the time, but the offense has to be focused on penetration - by dribbling, by passing to players on the move to the basket or by post ups. That is when we play well, we do all those 3 things.

The flaws in the offense, if you go back to all Lebron James team, they have those same flaws. What often happens with a Lebron team, is the team starts to become very dimensional on Lebron's kick outs and Lebron's handling of the ball. Why do you think Cleveland surrounded him with 3 point shooters, defenders and guys that just play a role around him? Why do you think Lebron only won a ring with Kyrie or Wade? Never without one. He went to a zillion finals without one, but he did not win a ring without that 2nd all-star ballhandling guard.

We have a coach who understands exactly who Lebron is, and exactly what he wants AD to be. And he keeps the role players in line, playing within their role. That's all you can really ask at this point. You can't teach Lebron to play the game different than he has his entire career. What we need to do is hope a) Lebron and AD are so good together that it discounts the need for a second all-star guard (ala Shaq-Kobe) or b) Lakers make a trade for that 2nd all-star level guard using Kuzma and other assets.

We're more than aware of what the team's offensive rating is. That isn't the point and you aren't trying hard enough to hear what we're saying, which is that they don't have much of a system. Even Cranjis said some of the stuff the Lakers ran under Mermuys' direction last year was better than what we see from them at times. And you know what this year's team has in common with last year's? Last year's team had a guy serving as the offensive coordinator who was not a specialist, and the same is true of this year's team.

Again, this is about the playoffs. This offense will be easy to figure out when a team is able to lock in on them in a 7 game series. It's way too simplistic and predictable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:36 pm    Post subject:

I think it's fair to ask for more actions weak side and strong side along with counters. We settle a lot on just having Lebron make decisions while the team gets stagnant at times. Which is also effective IMO.

On a side note: one thing is interesting in regards to play types. Percentile wise, we're #3 in spot up shooting at 93.1%ile, generating 1.06 PPP. In regards to the makeup of the team, last year we were ranked 4th to last at 10.3%ile while generating 0.95 PPP. Ouch Although the roster has a lot to do with it, I also believe the offense does generate some good looks for us.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject:

Just for fun, here are the listed playtypes for the team on nba.com. Listed by points per game each play type produces.

Transition: 75.9%ile - 17.0% freq - 1.13 PPP - 21.7 ppg
Spot up: 93.1%ile - 17.8% freq - 1.06 PPP - 21.3 ppg
PNR Ball Handler: 51.7%ile - 14.6% freq - 0.85 PPP - 14.0 ppg
Cut: 96.6%ile - 8.6% freq - 1.38 PPP - 13.3 ppg
Isolation: 58.6%ile - 8.0% freq - 0.92 PPP - 8.3 ppg
Post up: 72.4%ile - 7.3% freq - 0.95 PPP - 7.8 ppg
Putbacks: 100%ile - 5.7% freq - 1.22 PPP - 7.8 ppg
PNR Roll man: 75.9%ile - 5.0% freq - 1.18 PPP - 6.6 ppg
Off Screen: 3.4%ile - 4.8% freq - 0.81 PPP - 4.3 ppg
MISC: 41.4%ile - 6.9% freq - 0.53 PPP - 4.0 ppg
Hand off: 6.9%ile - 4.4% freq - 0.77 PPP - 3.8 ppg

About half of our shot types are from transition, spot ups and PNR ball handler. If we're going to run PNR ball handler types that often (14.6% freq), then we should try to get the PPP up.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:04 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Just for fun, here are the listed playtypes for the team on nba.com. Listed by points per game each play type produces.

Transition: 75.9%ile - 17.0% freq - 1.13 PPP - 21.7 ppg
Spot up: 93.1%ile - 17.8% freq - 1.06 PPP - 21.3 ppg
PNR Ball Handler: 51.7%ile - 14.6% freq - 0.85 PPP - 14.0 ppg
Cut: 96.6%ile - 8.6% freq - 1.38 PPP - 13.3 ppg
Isolation: 58.6%ile - 8.0% freq - 0.92 PPP - 8.3 ppg
Post up: 72.4%ile - 7.3% freq - 0.95 PPP - 7.8 ppg
Putbacks: 100%ile - 5.7% freq - 1.22 PPP - 7.8 ppg
PNR Roll man: 75.9%ile - 5.0% freq - 1.18 PPP - 6.6 ppg
Off Screen: 3.4%ile - 4.8% freq - 0.81 PPP - 4.3 ppg
MISC: 41.4%ile - 6.9% freq - 0.53 PPP - 4.0 ppg
Hand off: 6.9%ile - 4.4% freq - 0.77 PPP - 3.8 ppg

About half of our shot types are from transition, spot ups and PNR ball handler. If we're going to run PNR ball handler types that often (14.6% freq), then we should try to get the PPP up.

Yep. To be a PnR team, we need a PnR point guard, which we do not really have. We are built very similar to the Kobe-Pau-LO-Bynum teams from a decade ago, and rely a lot on Lebron to do what Kobe was and use elite length, size in the paint. We have more athleticism than that team, and probably are better from shooting the 3. It will come down to Lebron playing in mamba mode in the playoffs. If he play like he did in 2018, 2016, or close to. We will be right there. If not, then we probably fall short. AD has to develop as well, as a guy that reads the defense when he has the ball. I have seen some development with AD in the post, he is starting to read when the doubles come and moves the ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Our offense is rated in the top 5 in the NBA last I checked, and I can not remember a single team that ran a bad "outdated" offense end up with that kind of results.

Usually when teams are doing stuff that is outdated or not working in the era, the advance stats ratings of the team's offense and the overall stuff shows just that. All this comes down to is basically some want ZERO post ups in our offense, or call any team that runs a post up outdated. Which is BS, to me, because we have post up threats in Lebron and AD that are actually dominant in those situations. It is not like we are posting up McGee and Howard or Kuzma. We are posting up AD, and periodically Lebron.

For example, Mike D'Antoni gets hailed as this offensive genius, and while he is a good coach on offense, despite having little roster turnover and making a big move for another star in Westbrook, the team has not really improved with making that trade. Harden isolates more than any player in the league. D'Antoni has not been able to win or even utilize the 2 stars to their max potential (only Harden is maxing out his potential).

What we run, it is maximizing AD and Lebron. You can see it right away, the two of them play great off each other and work well in this offense together. If you have a guy in Bron who now at age 35 is still way stronger and skilled around the basket than his opposing defender, why ask Lebron not do that? Same with AD, he is good at post ups. I would not post them up all the time, but the offense has to be focused on penetration - by dribbling, by passing to players on the move to the basket or by post ups. That is when we play well, we do all those 3 things.

The flaws in the offense, if you go back to all Lebron James team, they have those same flaws. What often happens with a Lebron team, is the team starts to become very dimensional on Lebron's kick outs and Lebron's handling of the ball. Why do you think Cleveland surrounded him with 3 point shooters, defenders and guys that just play a role around him? Why do you think Lebron only won a ring with Kyrie or Wade? Never without one. He went to a zillion finals without one, but he did not win a ring without that 2nd all-star ballhandling guard.

We have a coach who understands exactly who Lebron is, and exactly what he wants AD to be. And he keeps the role players in line, playing within their role. That's all you can really ask at this point. You can't teach Lebron to play the game different than he has his entire career. What we need to do is hope a) Lebron and AD are so good together that it discounts the need for a second all-star guard (ala Shaq-Kobe) or b) Lakers make a trade for that 2nd all-star level guard using Kuzma and other assets.

We're more than aware of what the team's offensive rating is. That isn't the point and you aren't trying hard enough to hear what we're saying, which is that they don't have much of a system. Even Cranjis said some of the stuff the Lakers ran under Mermuys' direction last year was better than what we see from them at times. And you know what this year's team has in common with last year's? Last year's team had a guy serving as the offensive coordinator who was not a specialist, and the same is true of this year's team.

Again, this is about the playoffs. This offense will be easy to figure out when a team is able to lock in on them in a 7 game series. It's way too simplistic and predictable.

Vogel knows what he wants and is running schemes that fit the talent. He doesn't force Dwight or McGee to play outside the 3 point line. He doesn't force AD to be a 5 when AD wants to start at 4 and slide to 5. He takes the role players he was given such as Green, KCP, Caruso, Bradley etc and plays them in a manner where they can contribute around Lebron.

I think he has a general loose system, in that you start your offense with 5 guys out of the paint and then move into the paint through player motion. During that process you look for open 3 pointers and cutters moving towards the rim. A lot of the stuff he runs is dependent on what the lineup is. He clearly believes in Lebron as a PG, and having the offense run through your PG. Maybe that is flawed thinking but historically when a great wing is paired with a great big the recipe for success tends to be forcing the wing to be the PG. That is what Phil did with Kobe. A lot of coaches would have ran Kobe as a wing, and made a real PG run the O, with Kobe and Shaq as targets. But Phil changed that scheme up. Frank has come in and made Lebron the PG, and AD the big guy inside as a target. It's been going pretty good in my book, so far.

I think if he did not have a system, or a scheme, you would not see this team win games like we did WITHOUT AD and Lebron, and without AD. We beat OKC in OKC without Bron and AD. They were Vogel's schemes and system. Why did the offense look so good without AD and Bron? And again just last night, with Lebron and AD sitting, we had a little run late in the 3rd Q with the same bench guys. That's a sign of a well coached team.

Here's thing thing though. Much like with Kobe in the Triangle era, much like Kobe and Shaq with their era. The offense sometimes will become predictable iso heavy. When Lebron decides that he wants to just dribble and take 3s that is on him. When AD decides to hold the ball too long in the post without making a move, that is on him. When we do that kind of stuff, it is usually a sign of a superstar team with superstars getting lazy on offense. It happens to all superstar dependent teams. And you know how I know it's on AD and Lebron? The games where it was just Lebron and role players (with Kuz as 2nd option) or the game without Lebron/AD and just Rondo/Kuz and role players - we ran good schemes.

Those guys making youtube videos or online comments serving as bball experts, didn't want Frank to be hired to begin with, and thought he was a pretty bad coach. They've been wrong so many times. I dunno why people treat these guys like they know everything - because trust me the knowledge Frank Vogel has, the amount of game tape he has studied, and the way he understands the game, those video youtube guys can't even come close. I appreciate what those guys have to say, but come on. Easy to say that, when you aren't actually coaching Lebron and AD. Luke Walton has shown in Sacramento that he has made his team worse and he was not a great coach for Lebron. In contrast, Vogel showed in Indiana he had immense ability to coach, and again now with LA he has shown he can coach.

When you coach superstars, it's pretty much all about making sure they believe in you, and the role players around the superstars play collectively with the superstars. BTW, there was an article posted in this thread about some of the weaknesses and strengths of Frank Vogel from an Indiana Pacers follower. And I think they were pretty spot on. He does a lot of things well, but he can get too deep into his rotations with his guards and he can sometimes have too much faith in his players and needs to tighten his leash a bit. Since Indiana, I think Frank has come a long way as a coach with regards to offense, though.

Most of the criticism the Lakers get, they get because they still use post ups. Majority of teams in the NBA have completely gone away from that play.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Vogel probably would've picked a good guy to design his offense if he had been given the freedom to do so. I don't put these offensive struggles solely on him. He's an NBA coach, so he definitely has a working knowledge of good offense at this level, it's just that offense is not his area of expertise.


Good point, these aren’t Vogel’s assistants, they are Pelinka’s.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Judah wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Our offense is rated in the top 5 in the NBA last I checked, and I can not remember a single team that ran a bad "outdated" offense end up with that kind of results.

Usually when teams are doing stuff that is outdated or not working in the era, the advance stats ratings of the team's offense and the overall stuff shows just that. All this comes down to is basically some want ZERO post ups in our offense, or call any team that runs a post up outdated. Which is BS, to me, because we have post up threats in Lebron and AD that are actually dominant in those situations. It is not like we are posting up McGee and Howard or Kuzma. We are posting up AD, and periodically Lebron.

For example, Mike D'Antoni gets hailed as this offensive genius, and while he is a good coach on offense, despite having little roster turnover and making a big move for another star in Westbrook, the team has not really improved with making that trade. Harden isolates more than any player in the league. D'Antoni has not been able to win or even utilize the 2 stars to their max potential (only Harden is maxing out his potential).

What we run, it is maximizing AD and Lebron. You can see it right away, the two of them play great off each other and work well in this offense together. If you have a guy in Bron who now at age 35 is still way stronger and skilled around the basket than his opposing defender, why ask Lebron not do that? Same with AD, he is good at post ups. I would not post them up all the time, but the offense has to be focused on penetration - by dribbling, by passing to players on the move to the basket or by post ups. That is when we play well, we do all those 3 things.

The flaws in the offense, if you go back to all Lebron James team, they have those same flaws. What often happens with a Lebron team, is the team starts to become very dimensional on Lebron's kick outs and Lebron's handling of the ball. Why do you think Cleveland surrounded him with 3 point shooters, defenders and guys that just play a role around him? Why do you think Lebron only won a ring with Kyrie or Wade? Never without one. He went to a zillion finals without one, but he did not win a ring without that 2nd all-star ballhandling guard.

We have a coach who understands exactly who Lebron is, and exactly what he wants AD to be. And he keeps the role players in line, playing within their role. That's all you can really ask at this point. You can't teach Lebron to play the game different than he has his entire career. What we need to do is hope a) Lebron and AD are so good together that it discounts the need for a second all-star guard (ala Shaq-Kobe) or b) Lakers make a trade for that 2nd all-star level guard using Kuzma and other assets.

We're more than aware of what the team's offensive rating is. That isn't the point and you aren't trying hard enough to hear what we're saying, which is that they don't have much of a system. Even Cranjis said some of the stuff the Lakers ran under Mermuys' direction last year was better than what we see from them at times. And you know what this year's team has in common with last year's? Last year's team had a guy serving as the offensive coordinator who was not a specialist, and the same is true of this year's team.

Again, this is about the playoffs. This offense will be easy to figure out when a team is able to lock in on them in a 7 game series. It's way too simplistic and predictable.

Vogel knows what he wants and is running schemes that fit the talent. He doesn't force Dwight or McGee to play outside the 3 point line. He doesn't force AD to be a 5 when AD wants to start at 4 and slide to 5. He takes the role players he was given such as Green, KCP, Caruso, Bradley etc and plays them in a manner where they can contribute around Lebron.

I think he has a general loose system, in that you start your offense with 5 guys out of the paint and then move into the paint through player motion. During that process you look for open 3 pointers and cutters moving towards the rim. A lot of the stuff he runs is dependent on what the lineup is. He clearly believes in Lebron as a PG, and having the offense run through your PG. Maybe that is flawed thinking but historically when a great wing is paired with a great big the recipe for success tends to be forcing the wing to be the PG. That is what Phil did with Kobe. A lot of coaches would have ran Kobe as a wing, and made a real PG run the O, with Kobe and Shaq as targets. But Phil changed that scheme up. Frank has come in and made Lebron the PG, and AD the big guy inside as a target. It's been going pretty good in my book, so far.

I think if he did not have a system, or a scheme, you would not see this team win games like we did WITHOUT AD and Lebron, and without AD. We beat OKC in OKC without Bron and AD. They were Vogel's schemes and system. Why did the offense look so good without AD and Bron? And again just last night, with Lebron and AD sitting, we had a little run late in the 3rd Q with the same bench guys. That's a sign of a well coached team.

Here's thing thing though. Much like with Kobe in the Triangle era, much like Kobe and Shaq with their era. The offense sometimes will become predictable iso heavy. When Lebron decides that he wants to just dribble and take 3s that is on him. When AD decides to hold the ball too long in the post without making a move, that is on him. When we do that kind of stuff, it is usually a sign of a superstar team with superstars getting lazy on offense. It happens to all superstar dependent teams. And you know how I know it's on AD and Lebron? The games where it was just Lebron and role players (with Kuz as 2nd option) or the game without Lebron/AD and just Rondo/Kuz and role players - we ran good schemes.

Those guys making youtube videos or online comments serving as bball experts, didn't want Frank to be hired to begin with, and thought he was a pretty bad coach. They've been wrong so many times. I dunno why people treat these guys like they know everything - because trust me the knowledge Frank Vogel has, the amount of game tape he has studied, and the way he understands the game, those video youtube guys can't even come close. I appreciate what those guys have to say, but come on. Easy to say that, when you aren't actually coaching Lebron and AD. Luke Walton has shown in Sacramento that he has made his team worse and he was not a great coach for Lebron. In contrast, Vogel showed in Indiana he had immense ability to coach, and again now with LA he has shown he can coach.

When you coach superstars, it's pretty much all about making sure they believe in you, and the role players around the superstars play collectively with the superstars. BTW, there was an article posted in this thread about some of the weaknesses and strengths of Frank Vogel from an Indiana Pacers follower. And I think they were pretty spot on. He does a lot of things well, but he can get too deep into his rotations with his guards and he can sometimes have too much faith in his players and needs to tighten his leash a bit. Since Indiana, I think Frank has come a long way as a coach with regards to offense, though.

Most of the criticism the Lakers get, they get because they still use post ups. Majority of teams in the NBA have completely gone away from that play.


Vogel defensively is in his bag and I don’t think anyone is refuting that.

Vogel offensively relies entirely on Bron getting in his bag and when dude steps off the court, you can tell and I find it hard you’re refuting that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1220770242088992768

I got no expertise in coaching or X&os but I’ve seen both LFR and Cranjis question Vogs offensive acumen. I mean we all saw it in Orlando as well. In the playoffs if they scheme to stop Bron and Vogs/his coaching staff can’t counter, we in trouble.
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