Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
11%
 11%  [ 52 ]
Yes
53%
 53%  [ 239 ]
Neutral
34%
 34%  [ 155 ]
Total Votes : 446

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:16 am    Post subject:

i wish they get rid of jason kidd, or him finding another gig elsewhere. the dude just looks creepy, he gives me the vibe of snitch on Vogel any chance he gets. it's like a ticking time bomb for Vogel to have Kidd on the staff, also he brings nothing to this team other than being friends with certain players.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I dont know if it's because I am older, if its because the NBA has become such a team game or if its just because I know more about basketball than I used to, but ai cannot recall any of the 2000s playoff runs having the kind of game to game adjustments that this playoff run had. You could see the effect of coaching on almost every game. So many small and large adjustments in each series. This was not coaching as a motivational speaker but coaching in a real Xs/Os sense, especially defensively.

This may be why guys like Rivers are relics. You can't just manage teams and personalities any more. There are too many, smart and analytics based minds out there. Probably not a coincidence that the two guys who coached the finals teams weren't ex players, but film room nerds. We watched a more mature basketball, maybe in a more mature era.

Yup. I noticed this too. Nurse is of that mold as well, even though he technically didn't start as a film room guy. He's a non-former NBA player who is just a nerd of the game. In this era of basketball chess, you can't afford to have a coach who's still playing checkers.

Unless you have some really good DVD's. I just noticed we went after 2 of LeBron's old coaches(over the last decade). If they were both so good, they would have still had a job like Spoelstra

That's very poor logic IMO. Way too simplistic. Not every organization is like Miami. Spo probably would've been fired after losing to Dallas in 2011 if it had been almost any other team.

I really don't understand this weird fascination that some have of proving that Lue is a bad coach. As if a winner and basketball genius like LeBron would ever give a bad coach his stamp of approval.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:00 pm    Post subject:

And the receipts continue. This gem from Jackie Mac expressing her disbelief that the Lakers would fire Luke Walton and saying "he's as good a coach as" ... as good a coach as who Jackie?

https://twitter.com/WayoffPiss/status/1315904147472834560

"I think Luke Walton is a terrific coach"

THANK GOD WE HAVE VOGEL
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Raijin wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I dont know if it's because I am older, if its because the NBA has become such a team game or if its just because I know more about basketball than I used to, but ai cannot recall any of the 2000s playoff runs having the kind of game to game adjustments that this playoff run had. You could see the effect of coaching on almost every game. So many small and large adjustments in each series. This was not coaching as a motivational speaker but coaching in a real Xs/Os sense, especially defensively.

This may be why guys like Rivers are relics. You can't just manage teams and personalities any more. There are too many, smart and analytics based minds out there. Probably not a coincidence that the two guys who coached the finals teams weren't ex players, but film room nerds. We watched a more mature basketball, maybe in a more mature era.

Yup. I noticed this too. Nurse is of that mold as well, even though he technically didn't start as a film room guy. He's a non-former NBA player who is just a nerd of the game. In this era of basketball chess, you can't afford to have a coach who's still playing checkers.

Unless you have some really good DVD's. I just noticed we went after 2 of LeBron's old coaches(over the last decade). If they were both so good, they would have still had a job like Spoelstra

That's very poor logic IMO. Way too simplistic. Not every organization is like Miami. Spo probably would've been fired after losing to Dallas in 2011 if it had been almost any other team.

I really don't understand this weird fascination that some have of proving that Lue is a bad coach. As if a winner and basketball genius like LeBron would ever give a bad coach his stamp of approval.


Maybe it's not about ex players per se.
But about not being merely a manager of egos.
Since other coaches have way more data now to scheme and make adjustments, coaches can't simply rely on having the best players without being able to adjust?

But yea, it's more nuanced than that as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Eight current coaches with titles (including Lue who is expected to get a job soon, five of which have one ring. Frank has a pretty good chance to elevate himself into the multiple title list next season.


Popovic 5
Kerr 3
Spolestra 2

Nurse 1
Rivers 1
Carlisle 1
Vogel 1
Lue 1


And what I like about Vogel, he is 1/1. This is the ONLY time he ever had a championship level team, or a 2 superstar (or even 1 superstar) team. His previous good teams in Indiana were with an all-star in George, but aside from that were defensive minded role players. They overachieved because of Vogel's defensive brilliance and ability to use his role players around George.

This Lakers team was the same way, how Vogel used the role players around AD/Bron and defense was their 3rd superstar. Many coaches on that list have had multiple times in position to be a front runner or top 2-3 contender. This was Frank's first time in the spot, and he delivered right away.

The luckiest move we made was Ty Lue choosing to go for money over the Lakers. I can assure you, Ty Lue does not do things the way Frank did, at all Two completely different coaches. And Monty Williams, also a completely different coach. The way we used guys like Dwight, Caruso, KCP, Green. Rondo. That is coaching brilliance, by Frank. Just take for example, how a championship coach like Carlisle had no idea of how to deal with Rondo's way of doing things. As if it is easy to coach guys with offensive flaws. This team is filled with role players who have offensive flaws, so that is why someone like Frank was an absolute GEM of a hire. I've been watching this game for 30 years now, and if you look back in this thread, very early into our season I said Frank's a damn good coach. It was instant, you could see it right away early in our season, his impact.

I gotta take some receipts on those takes on Frank after the Clipper opening day loss.


Agreed, we hired a good one in Frank. Perfect temperament for this specific group. We know LeBron sits at the top of the food chain and winning obviously makes for good bedfellows. But this team has some pretty strong personalities. Vogel's ability to keep the noise from becoming the story and getting the players to buy in was nothing short of amazing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Raijin wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I dont know if it's because I am older, if its because the NBA has become such a team game or if its just because I know more about basketball than I used to, but ai cannot recall any of the 2000s playoff runs having the kind of game to game adjustments that this playoff run had. You could see the effect of coaching on almost every game. So many small and large adjustments in each series. This was not coaching as a motivational speaker but coaching in a real Xs/Os sense, especially defensively.

This may be why guys like Rivers are relics. You can't just manage teams and personalities any more. There are too many, smart and analytics based minds out there. Probably not a coincidence that the two guys who coached the finals teams weren't ex players, but film room nerds. We watched a more mature basketball, maybe in a more mature era.

Yup. I noticed this too. Nurse is of that mold as well, even though he technically didn't start as a film room guy. He's a non-former NBA player who is just a nerd of the game. In this era of basketball chess, you can't afford to have a coach who's still playing checkers.

Unless you have some really good DVD's. I just noticed we went after 2 of LeBron's old coaches(over the last decade). If they were both so good, they would have still had a job like Spoelstra

That's very poor logic IMO. Way too simplistic. Not every organization is like Miami. Spo probably would've been fired after losing to Dallas in 2011 if it had been almost any other team.

I really don't understand this weird fascination that some have of proving that Lue is a bad coach. As if a winner and basketball genius like LeBron would ever give a bad coach his stamp of approval.


He is a bball genius on the court. He actually has a really bad habit of wanting yes men coaches as his HC because Lebron likes to run the team and organization. Lue is terrible. Vogel is the first good and real coach he has had since Spo. I credit Lebron for buying into a real system as opposed to before just wanted to control everything.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject:

if FO wants to insert coaches into his staff they should have went with Pau Gasol. Imagine Gasol working with AD and Lebron all season on post moves
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:36 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
if FO wants to insert coaches into his staff they should have went with Pau Gasol. Imagine Gasol working with AD and Lebron all season on post moves


Never thought about that, but that would be pretty cool.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject:

The Lowe Post: Lakers coach Frank Vogel

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=30114951


This is a pretty cool listen.

I thought it was interesting how he said he didn't seek out advice or insight from other coaches about LeBron and AD. He didn't want those conversations swaying his perception on what they would be like and wanted a fresh start.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject:

818fan wrote:
The Lowe Post: Lakers coach Frank Vogel

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=30114951


This is a pretty cool listen.

I thought it was interesting how he said he didn't seek out advice or insight from other coaches about LeBron and AD. He didn't want those conversations swaying his perception on what they would be like and wanted a fresh start.


Thanks for the link. Good stuff!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Thank You for bringing Showtime back to the Lakers coach!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Highly suggested to listen to Vogel on Lowe's podcast. I try not to listen to players or coaches do interviews since it's mostly player/coach speak, but he talked about everything practically and was really open with everything.

-Openly talked about when Magic trashed the Lakers FO/Pelinka on First Take on the same day of his 1st Lakers press conference.
-He went into the job initially to coach Bron & the young core with BI, Ball, & Hart and had his plans and vision laid out.
-His closest friend of all the head coaches in the league is Brad Stevens. Spoke about when he took time to learn more and adjust to the the modern NBA after he got fired from the Magic in his year off.
-Talked about being at home during the draft and funny thing was his daughter hoping that the Lakers get the number one pick so Zion could be a Laker.
-Talked and knew about the outside noise of the Lakers dysfunction being from the outside before joining the Lakers and it being much different being in the inside.
-Even spoke about the initial AD trade and knew of the noise about the Lakers giving up too much for AD, but if you in position to get a top 5 player, you go for it.
-Was asked by Lowe about coaching LeBron and actually coaching Bron instead of being scared or worried you will get fired with the pressure that comes with coaching Bron.
-Talked openly about being in a Communist country in China and worried that if they said anything negative or bad, it will lead to trouble for the whole team. Originally him & Atkinson when he was coach of the Nets were going to speak to the media, but the players went to bat for them and didn't want to put the coaches in a bad position that the NBA put everyone in.
-Spoke about in free agency, had a heart to heart with Rondo and told him that he was the biggest Rondo fan and loved his game, which is how they grew close and actually reminisced about last year in free agency together at the Lakers championship celebration get together.

He talked even more and left out more details, but a really good and fun podcast.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Vogel is a good down to earth guy. Which made him perfect for the Laker job. He's not a big persona that would take away from the players.

Funny his bff is Stevens, they both have very similar traits.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Dudley on Vogel: "The preparation we had was phenomenal. The best I've had in the league."

Vogel's game plan on Portland: "I remember Bron clapping it up, 'That's a hell of a scout!' "


Last edited by DancingBarry on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Dudley on Vogel: "The preparation we had was phenomenal. The best I've had in the league."

Vogel's game plan on Portland: "I remember Bron clapping it up, 'That's a hell of scout!' "


Vogel used to be a scout for the Lakers for one year. Film and basketball junkie rolled into one.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Vogel edited in Eddie Murphy saying “Now just where the hell you think you’re going?” In their defensive highlight clips.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Dudley on Vogel: "The preparation we had was phenomenal. The best I've had in the league."

Vogel's game plan on Portland: "I remember Bron clapping it up, 'That's a hell of a scout!' "

I was more impressed by how he well he knew each players strength and weakness (or limitation). It was remarkable, really. One could say, well he had a lot of vets. So of course knowing their history, a guy could know them if they are well prepared. But then, he knew Caruso and how to use Alex so well.

People were on him about his vision of Rondo, being QB 2, and allowing Bron to play off the ball more. Frank knew exactly what he was envisioning. This was not a vision anyone but Frank had, really. I remember reading him say it that first time, and I thought, this will not go well with the fanbase. It took a lot of guts to try some of the stuff Frank did this season. He went completely away from what has been working in the NBA last few years.

A lot of small ball, he went with 2 Centers.
No post ups, he went with a lot of post ups, we were one of the highest user of this play.
Guys like Rondo and Dwight, were seen as outdated non impact guys, Frank knew how to use them.
The AD plan. To use him as a big guy, target guy in an offense, again viewed as outdated because last few ring teams have all had guards and wings as top 2 options.

Aside from higher 3 point shooting attempts, Frank used his same Indiana Pacers style basketball, his old school approach and got it to work beautifully.

Just goes to show, those arguments that there is only one way to win, or that playing post ups should be completely abandoned, or playing big is bad, is crazy. If you have the talent for it, you can absolutely win this way. We have Anthony freaking Davis at 4-5, and Lebron at 1. There is no way we are gonna play small and win. If you have the talent, you play defense, and you have a balanced approach, you win this way.

The most satisfying thing for me was the ass kicking we gave Mike DAntoni. I remember him calling Kobe a fan, when Kobe said we needed to use Pau better in the playoffs in 2013. The Lakers beat a Houston team that was so good at small ball, it was crazy. And we did it playing a completely different style than most teams are. We beat MDA at his own game, by using Morris at the 5 and also beat him playing our way using AD at the 5. I just love the beatings we gave to these guys. We played every possible style of play when it came to Portland, Houston, Denver and Miami. And we found defensive solutions and right lineups against all. Great coaching by Frank.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Should've known Frank "The Tank" Vogel is a fan of Old School.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject:

One thing that annoyed me was hater-ass Mark Jackson saying Vogel had an easy job and that any coach could've won with this team.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
One thing that annoyed me was hater-ass Mark Jackson saying Vogel had an easy job and that any coach could've won with this team.


Tell him Steve Kerr sends his regards.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
One thing that annoyed me was hater-ass Mark Jackson saying Vogel had an easy job and that any coach could've won with this team.


I think he is just jealous that he is not in the position to coach any team, and especially some contender team. So he is trying to be smart while looking really stupid.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Dudley on Vogel: "The preparation we had was phenomenal. The best I've had in the league."

Vogel's game plan on Portland: "I remember Bron clapping it up, 'That's a hell of a scout!' "

I was more impressed by how he well he knew each players strength and weakness (or limitation). It was remarkable, really. One could say, well he had a lot of vets. So of course knowing their history, a guy could know them if they are well prepared. But then, he knew Caruso and how to use Alex so well.

People were on him about his vision of Rondo, being QB 2, and allowing Bron to play off the ball more. Frank knew exactly what he was envisioning. This was not a vision anyone but Frank had, really. I remember reading him say it that first time, and I thought, this will not go well with the fanbase. It took a lot of guts to try some of the stuff Frank did this season. He went completely away from what has been working in the NBA last few years.

A lot of small ball, he went with 2 Centers.
No post ups, he went with a lot of post ups, we were one of the highest user of this play.
Guys like Rondo and Dwight, were seen as outdated non impact guys, Frank knew how to use them.
The AD plan. To use him as a big guy, target guy in an offense, again viewed as outdated because last few ring teams have all had guards and wings as top 2 options.

Aside from higher 3 point shooting attempts, Frank used his same Indiana Pacers style basketball, his old school approach and got it to work beautifully.

Just goes to show, those arguments that there is only one way to win, or that playing post ups should be completely abandoned, or playing big is bad, is crazy. If you have the talent for it, you can absolutely win this way. We have Anthony freaking Davis at 4-5, and Lebron at 1. There is no way we are gonna play small and win. If you have the talent, you play defense, and you have a balanced approach, you win this way.

The most satisfying thing for me was the ass kicking we gave Mike DAntoni. I remember him calling Kobe a fan, when Kobe said we needed to use Pau better in the playoffs in 2013. The Lakers beat a Houston team that was so good at small ball, it was crazy. And we did it playing a completely different style than most teams are. We beat MDA at his own game, by using Morris at the 5 and also beat him playing our way using AD at the 5. I just love the beatings we gave to these guys. We played every possible style of play when it came to Portland, Houston, Denver and Miami. And we found defensive solutions and right lineups against all. Great coaching by Frank.

It was fitting LA closed the Rockets out by doing what HOU loved...launchng a bunch of 3's
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:00 pm    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
One thing that annoyed me was hater-ass Mark Jackson saying Vogel had an easy job and that any coach could've won with this team.


I think he is just jealous that he is not in the position to coach any team, and especially some contender team. So he is trying to be smart while looking really stupid.


Yeah, I mean going off his history he has has said and done A LOT of stupid, arrogant things so it shouldn't really surprise anyone. It's also the main reason he will probably never be a head coach again. He's an absolute pr nightmare just waiting to happen especially in 2020.

I remember when he said this live about Vogel though and JVG instantly called him out on it at least but it was still a pretty pathetic thing to say considering what he achieved this season. Any baskbetball head that watched the entire season and even just the Playoffs could tell Vogel had a huge impact on the team and was clearly not just a yes man coach that let the star players run the show.

If you go back and watch people's reactions in the media about Vogel it was pretty awful. Tons of people were saying the Lakers players wouldn't respect him and he'd be fired quick or simply that he just wasn't that good of a coach and they messed up missing on way better coaches such as Lue.

Just more reasons I can't watch the vast majority of the sports shows or clips online because they just ooze of not knowing wtf they are even talking about much of the time with the things I know well such as the Lakers so it makes me not trust anything else they say either on topics I know much less about. It's kind of sad really how they sometimes talk/debate so passionately about things they know next to nothing about and many people eat it up like gospel.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject:

Spo got a ton of credit for taking Miami that far this season. But let's not forget roles were reversed for Vogel when he was with the Pacers. Spo had Miami superteam and Pacers took them to game 7 of ECF where their best player was PG-13. And Way off P choked as usual in the elimination game scoring only 7 points. Roy Hibbert was the second best player on that team. Talent gap with 2013 Miami Heat was enormous. Hibbert started having a steady decline and still Vogel had the Pacers playing at a high level. Pacers messed up by not renewing him given the terrible PG 13 injury he had to deal with in 2014-15 season and still only barely missed the playoffs.

Spo also missed playoffs 3 out of last 5 years from 2014 to 2019, but was lucky to be in a stable organization like Miami. Vogel didn't have that luxury in Orlando and new management sacked him. Overall, I think Spo and Vogel are in the same league as coaches which is at the top of their generation along with Nick Nurse.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:24 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

<snip>
Just goes to show, those arguments that there is only one way to win, or that playing post ups should be completely abandoned, or playing big is bad, is crazy. If you have the talent for it, you can absolutely win this way. We have Anthony freaking Davis at 4-5, and Lebron at 1. There is no way we are gonna play small and win. If you have the talent, you play defense, and you have a balanced approach, you win this way..


Well said! 100%. And I'll give equal credit to Pelinka for recognizing this.
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