Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
12%
 12%  [ 62 ]
Yes
54%
 54%  [ 271 ]
Neutral
32%
 32%  [ 163 ]
Total Votes : 496

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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject:

Frank was like. Ok, I know this is a process. I know you all have won a ring (most of the vets have like LBJ, AD, Dwight, Rondo etc). And many have had Olympics golds (Melo etc). But enough of the whole we will get there eventually. Start with the effort, now. Never have I seen such a talented group of players give so little effort at times.

I hope this shows this team how good they can be if they play with effort and dedication to play paint oriented basketball. The majority of our offense was initiated by getting the ball to AD inside or getting Westbrook opportunities to drive or other players (Melo) posting up or driving (Monk, Rondo). The 3 pointers came mainly from the ball first going in through passing into the post OR dribbling into the paint. Then kick outs. There was even cutting off post feeds (Wow).

This starts with Bron. His love fest with the 3 ball has to cease. He's not Dame/Curry. He's Lebron. Yes, take more 3s, and spot up more. But they need to be from Westbrook or AD kickouts. Not your own creating and just showing the D how good you are from outside now. Same with AD. Stop taking every jumper that's open. Get into the post first.

Feel for Frank. This game shows it's not been Frank. These guys just haven't been listening to the coaches enough or trying as hard as they could be.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Frank was like. Ok, I know this is a process. I know you all have won a ring (most of the vets have like LBJ, AD, Dwight, Rondo etc). And many have had Olympics golds (Melo etc). But enough of the whole we will get there eventually. Start with the effort, now. Never have I seen such a talented group of players give so little effort at times.

I hope this shows this team how good they can be if they play with effort and dedication to play paint oriented basketball. The majority of our offense was initiated by getting the ball to AD inside or getting Westbrook opportunities to drive or other players (Melo) posting up or driving (Monk, Rondo). The 3 pointers came mainly from the ball first going in through passing into the post OR dribbling into the paint. Then kick outs. There was even cutting off post feeds (Wow).

This starts with Bron. His love fest with the 3 ball has to cease. He's not Dame/Curry. He's Lebron. Yes, take more 3s, and spot up more. But they need to be from Westbrook or AD kickouts. Not your own creating and just showing the D how good you are from outside now. Same with AD. Stop taking every jumper that's open. Get into the post first.

Feel for Frank. This game shows it's not been Frank. These guys just haven't been listening to the coaches enough or trying as hard as they could be.


we played the kings a team without a coach and previously coached by Luke...


Once we play a team that moves the ball we will be back in the fire vogel wagon
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject:

I've never been in the fire Vogel wagon (I think unless you have an elite coach who has a great plan for the team no way you make that move, and certainly even that coach would only come in at the summer).

However we did lose to the same Kings team, playing the exact opposite of how I described above.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject:

The problem with franchises, to me, and a NBA exec have told me that once you're in the circle, you are in. So when it comes to finding a coach, they rarely scout for new coaches, they stay within the circle. Firing Vogel wouldn't be the move because they would just get another coach, within the same circle that doesn't have a job; doesn't really matter how good they are. Usually the good ones have a job, so we would be looking at Hollins, Scott Brooks, Fitzdale, or they may try Phil Handy, etc... 1 you get defense, but no offense. Other you get average offense, but no defense. Next you get average on both, and the last you get inexperience. Firing Vogel would not be a good idea, unless they have actually scouted for the next coach, outside of recycling the same coaches. One that they see potential in, that has a vision, game plan, knows X's and O's.... but I don't see this FO doing that. Vogel may be the best you are gonna get and just adding an offensive lead assistant may be more essential.

Last edited by Outspoken on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject:

Vogel may not be a great coach, but he is surely a very good one. He leads the team playing throughout the absence of LBJ and many injuries well. He is developing AD and Russ to be leaders, discovering Monk and playing Carmelo well. He is adequate!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject:

i don't know who made the adjustment, but melo in the post last night has been great. he doesn't have to just come in and shoot 3s every position. he has elite post up skills and we could use it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject:

Sina wrote:
Vogel may not be a great coach, but he is surely a very good one. He leads the team playing throughout the absence of LBJ and many injuries well. He is developing AD and Russ to be leaders, discovering Monk and playing Carmelo well. He is adequate!


Vogel isn't that bad of a coach to me. He is more of a defensive assistant than head coach to me, but compared to who is out there in the NBA coaching circle, I might wanna stick with Vogel. His biggest flaws are rotation and offense. I don't think rotation would be that big of a problem, if we had an offense. That's why I feel it is essential to add an offensive coach than stacking the deck with defensive minded coaches. Maybe the Lakers could pay D'antoni to teach the offensive side of the floor and Vogel and D'antoni can work as a tandem. To me that would be ideal.


Last edited by Outspoken on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Frank was like. Ok, I know this is a process. I know you all have won a ring (most of the vets have like LBJ, AD, Dwight, Rondo etc). And many have had Olympics golds (Melo etc). But enough of the whole we will get there eventually. Start with the effort, now. Never have I seen such a talented group of players give so little effort at times.

I hope this shows this team how good they can be if they play with effort and dedication to play paint oriented basketball. The majority of our offense was initiated by getting the ball to AD inside or getting Westbrook opportunities to drive or other players (Melo) posting up or driving (Monk, Rondo). The 3 pointers came mainly from the ball first going in through passing into the post OR dribbling into the paint. Then kick outs. There was even cutting off post feeds (Wow).

This starts with Bron. His love fest with the 3 ball has to cease. He's not Dame/Curry. He's Lebron. Yes, take more 3s, and spot up more. But they need to be from Westbrook or AD kickouts. Not your own creating and just showing the D how good you are from outside now. Same with AD. Stop taking every jumper that's open. Get into the post first.

Feel for Frank. This game shows it's not been Frank. These guys just haven't been listening to the coaches enough or trying as hard as they could be.


we played the kings a team without a coach and previously coached by Luke...


Once we play a team that moves the ball we will be back in the fire vogel wagon


I'd prefer the fire Rob Pelinka wagon. He provided Vogel with a flawed roster.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Wait the coach who never discloses starting lineup until the last minute suddenly announced Dwight as starting tomorrow more than 24 hours ahead of game time?

Frank is basically like (bleep) IT lately.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Frank was like. Ok, I know this is a process. I know you all have won a ring (most of the vets have like LBJ, AD, Dwight, Rondo etc). And many have had Olympics golds (Melo etc). But enough of the whole we will get there eventually. Start with the effort, now. Never have I seen such a talented group of players give so little effort at times.

I hope this shows this team how good they can be if they play with effort and dedication to play paint oriented basketball. The majority of our offense was initiated by getting the ball to AD inside or getting Westbrook opportunities to drive or other players (Melo) posting up or driving (Monk, Rondo). The 3 pointers came mainly from the ball first going in through passing into the post OR dribbling into the paint. Then kick outs. There was even cutting off post feeds (Wow).

This starts with Bron. His love fest with the 3 ball has to cease. He's not Dame/Curry. He's Lebron. Yes, take more 3s, and spot up more. But they need to be from Westbrook or AD kickouts. Not your own creating and just showing the D how good you are from outside now. Same with AD. Stop taking every jumper that's open. Get into the post first.

Feel for Frank. This game shows it's not been Frank. These guys just haven't been listening to the coaches enough or trying as hard as they could be.


we played the kings a team without a coach and previously coached by Luke...


Once we play a team that moves the ball we will be back in the fire vogel wagon


I'd prefer the fire Rob Pelinka wagon. He provided Vogel with a flawed roster.


I’m not in the fire anyone yet, but how did Rob give him a flawed roster? The roster has every skill set you need with the only thing being short on wings…but they still have AD the unicorn and LBJ to defend a wing in crunch time.

There is also the LeKlutch factor who I’m pretty sure tell Rob yes or no. It’s been documented that potential moves are run by Lebron and AD.

Part of the coaches job is to take the ingredients and cook. He’s not missing any nba ingredients tbh.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Wait the coach who never discloses starting lineup until the last minute suddenly announced Dwight as starting tomorrow more than 24 hours ahead of game time?

Frank is basically like (bleep) IT lately.


I think he's realized there's no reason to try to and throw other teams off, all our rotations are trash.

But if there is one to use for now:

Dwight (20), AD (20), LeBron (8)
AD (14), LeBron (12), Melo (22)
LeBron (14), THT (18), Reaves (16)
Monk (28), Wayne (20)
Westbrook (34), Rondo (14)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:52 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:


<snip>
I’m not in the fire anyone yet, but how did Rob give him a flawed roster? The roster has every skill set you need with the only thing being short on wings…but they still have AD the unicorn and LBJ to defend a wing in crunch time.

There is also the LeKlutch factor who I’m pretty sure tell Rob yes or no. It’s been documented that potential moves are run by Lebron and AD.

Part of the coaches job is to take the ingredients and cook. He’s not missing any nba ingredients tbh.


Wing is one of two deficits, the other one is the ability to play the kind of full-court on-ball perimeter defense that underpins Vogel's defensive schemes and that KCP/Caruso - and to a certain extent Schroeder - provided.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Wait the coach who never discloses starting lineup until the last minute suddenly announced Dwight as starting tomorrow more than 24 hours ahead of game time?

Frank is basically like (bleep) IT lately.

I think Frank is like. All right. I was patient. I did my dues. I gave the offense a try. I got Westbrook in line. You basically took my #1 D and flushed it down the toilet. You don't get the ball inside anymore. None of that stuff that made Vogel such a great fit 2 years ago and last year even without Bron/AD.

So now on to guys that actually will do it. Not sure who those guys are but at least Dwight seems interested in playing that way. He knows the drill. Physical inside. Good defensive coverages. Setting hard screens on offense. Etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:19 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Wait the coach who never discloses starting lineup until the last minute suddenly announced Dwight as starting tomorrow more than 24 hours ahead of game time?

Frank is basically like (bleep) IT lately.

I think Frank is like. All right. I was patient. I did my dues. I gave the offense a try. I got Westbrook in line. You basically took my #1 D and flushed it down the toilet. You don't get the ball inside anymore. None of that stuff that made Vogel such a great fit 2 years ago and last year even without Bron/AD.

So now on to guys that actually will do it. Not sure who those guys are but at least Dwight seems interested in playing that way. He knows the drill. Physical inside. Good defensive coverages. Setting hard screens on offense. Etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
LakerSD wrote:


<snip>
I’m not in the fire anyone yet, but how did Rob give him a flawed roster? The roster has every skill set you need with the only thing being short on wings…but they still have AD the unicorn and LBJ to defend a wing in crunch time.

There is also the LeKlutch factor who I’m pretty sure tell Rob yes or no. It’s been documented that potential moves are run by Lebron and AD.

Part of the coaches job is to take the ingredients and cook. He’s not missing any nba ingredients tbh.


Wing is one of two deficits, the other one is the ability to play the kind of full-court on-ball perimeter defense that underpins Vogel's defensive schemes and that KCP/Caruso - and to a certain extent Schroeder - provided.


While I can see that argument, imo it’s too much like a football coach saying “I need guys who can play a 3/4 and not 4/3.”

Vogel imo has enough on this roster. There are teams with way more flaws than the Lakers.

Every team in the salary cap era will have some flaw or be short at certain positions.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject:

When Vogs agreed to be our coach on a 3yr deal after Monty & Lue grabbed 5yr deals elsewhere, the writing was on the wall. He allowed our FO to pick his coaching staff and allowed our FO to dictate terms on who starts. And now he just might be fed up with being their “yes” man.

Other than Schro getting the starting nod last year, there was obvious volatility at who got the start at center last season and how many minutes were distributed amongst our platoon of Marc, Trezz & Drummond.

I’m assuming that same starter discussion occurred between our FO and DJ this summer and now it’s coming to a head. Vogs is trying to keep his job, so it doesn’t matter what Rob/Kurt told him…he’s going to play the guy that will keep bringing those coaching checks in.

Vogs first tells Dwight he ain’t playing, then suddenly yanks DJ out the game and plays Dwight extended minutes. Has an animated conversation with DJ on the bench (see video in link below). Now Dwight is the starter at the 5…weird mind games being played between our FO and Vogs. And once again, our bigs are at the center of it.

https://twitter.com/HoopAnalysisNet/status/1465925219978133510

Quote:
Howard tells @LakersReporter on the walk-off that Vogel told him he wasn't going to play tonight, and he was "kind of down." (via @hmfaigen)

Good thing Dwight is always ready to make and impact:

▪ 12 PTS
▪ 13 REB
▪ 2 STL
▪ 2 BLK
▪ 35 MINS


Quote:
Frank Vogel says Dwight Howard will start tomorrow against the Clippers.

Vogel added that he plans on playing only one of Howard and DeAndre Jordan moving forward.

(via @jovanbuha)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
When Vogs agreed to be our coach on a 3yr deal after Monty & Lue grabbed 5yr deals elsewhere, the writing was on the wall. He allowed our FO to pick his coaching staff and allowed our FO to dictate terms on who starts. And now he just might be fed up with being their “yes” man.

Other than Schro getting the starting nod last year, there was obvious volatility at who got the start at center last season and how many minutes were distributed amongst our platoon of Marc, Trezz & Drummond.

I’m assuming that same starter discussion occurred between our FO and DJ this summer and now it’s coming to a head. Vogs is trying to keep his job, so it doesn’t matter what Rob/Kurt told him…he’s going to play the guy that will keep bringing those coaching checks in.

Vogs first tells Dwight he ain’t playing, then suddenly yanks DJ out the game and plays Dwight extended minutes. Has an animated conversation with DJ on the bench (see video in link below). Now Dwight is the starter at the 5…weird mind games being played between our FO and Vogs. And once again, our bigs are at the center of it.

https://twitter.com/HoopAnalysisNet/status/1465925219978133510

Quote:
Howard tells @LakersReporter on the walk-off that Vogel told him he wasn't going to play tonight, and he was "kind of down." (via @hmfaigen)

Good thing Dwight is always ready to make and impact:

▪ 12 PTS
▪ 13 REB
▪ 2 STL
▪ 2 BLK
▪ 35 MINS


Quote:
Frank Vogel says Dwight Howard will start tomorrow against the Clippers.

Vogel added that he plans on playing only one of Howard and DeAndre Jordan moving forward.

(via @jovanbuha)


The guy was looking at the possibility of becoming a Associate HC for the remainder of his career and then suddenly the most coveted job in the business became available with a top 3 player of all time. The guy was really in no position to argue 3 years versus 5 years or who was on his staff. Took it and ran. Then ran this team to a title and gained his HC respect back after the disaster that was Orlando.

Firing him would be a mistake IMO. I mean, who knows what the players in the locker room are feeling but going from Vogel to Fizdale is a huge downgrade. I guess if morale is terrible and you attribute that to him you gotta make a move but I don't see that yet. Having said that, our offense has been tragic and he deserves blame there. He should have tried to bring in a better offensive mind like Kenny Atkinson. Maybe Jeanie didn't want to spend there either as she clearly wasn't willing to pay Hollins to stay.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject:

If you are starting Dwight, you better start Ellington? not tht please

PG.Westbrook
SG.Ellington
SF.Lebron
PF.Davis
C.Dwight
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Vogel will take the blame. He may not be the best coach in the
league but he's not worst.

This team has been poorly built as the FO continues to follow
an agent's and players lead, we will continue to fail.

The most expensive team (Lakers, the 4th most expensive team
in the league) is not necessarily the best team, it's not about
the money.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
cathy78 wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
Vogel told Dwight he probably isn't gonna play tonight. I find that baffling to say to someone of Dwight's caliber in comparison to DAJ, especially on the defensive end. He is one of our strongest defenders, but Vogel said he probably isn't gonna play. Only played him because we weren't getting any energy from DAJ. Dwight didn't play the last 2 games because they were trying Lebron at the 5. My question is why is he choosing DAJ over Dwight, when Dwight is the better player, especially defensively? That says to me a lot about him as a head coach and assessing what he has, putting the right combinations together.

Noooo, he just wakes up and his left pinkie tells him to not play Dwight, so he doesn't play him.


He wakes up like Dr. Evil? Lol

Mama here come dat man again. I've said and repeated on numerous occasions, VOGEL IS THE LAKERS WEAKEST LINK.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:56 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
If you are starting Dwight, you better start Ellington? not tht please

PG.Westbrook
SG.Ellington
SF.Lebron
PF.Davis
C.Dwight


I would say start Austin Reaves, but he is a rookie, so I know Vogel isn't starting him. Ellington most likely is gonna start, but if he starts THT, he took a step forward with Dwight and 2 steps back with THT.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
If you are starting Dwight, you better start Ellington? not tht please

PG.Westbrook
SG.Ellington
SF.Lebron
PF.Davis
C.Dwight


I would say start Austin Reaves, but he is a rookie, so I know Vogel isn't starting him. Ellington most likely is gonna start, but if he starts THT, he took a step forward with Dwight and 2 steps back with THT.


I like Reeves but I think we need his wing size and high IQ off the bench and he can keep the ball moving around. But that line up needs a guy that will take 5-8 threes per night and keep the defense chasing him around. More motion and ball movement is what we need
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:

<snip>

While I can see that argument, imo it’s too much like a football coach saying “I need guys who can play a 3/4 and not 4/3.”

Vogel imo has enough on this roster. There are teams with way more flaws than the Lakers.

Every team in the salary cap era will have some flaw or be short at certain positions.


Yeah I see your point but I just feel that a coach that has proven he can build the league-leading defense for 2 straight seasons (and won a championship with said defense) should get considerable leeway in choosing players of his specification.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:28 pm    Post subject:

Tonight's loss is on Vogel. Lebron was getting torched with the small ball lineup with him at center. Then the double teams on George every trip down the stretch gave the Clippers one wide open look after the next.

I don't get why they kept trying to take the ball out of his hands. He was 7/20 shooting and 0-7 from three. Meanwhile Kennard, Morris, and Ibaka were 14/20 from three.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:29 pm    Post subject:

Maybe stop having lineups to start each half with no perimeter shooters?
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