Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years (Kidd as Assistant)
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
15%
 15%  [ 40 ]
Yes
42%
 42%  [ 113 ]
Neutral
41%
 41%  [ 110 ]
Total Votes : 263

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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
ahaider wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


While I believe the Lakers severely mishandled this situation, there is a case to be made that the Frank Vogel & Jason Kidd could be an effective pairing.

A lot has been made of Jason Kidd joining the staff & potentially undermining Vogel to seek the HC spot in the Lakers. I don't believe that Jason Kidd will ever be HC of the Lakers for 2 primary reasons.

1) Lakers are too sensitive to public perception. The moment the story leaked about losing Lue and the media was slamming us - they immediately hired Vogel. The optics surrounding Kidd particularly the domestic violence & his power play tendencies will never allow him to be HC. Simply put, they had the opportunity to hire Jason Kidd & hire Vogel as an assistant and they elected to not go that route.

2) His ambition for power is well documented. From backstabbing Billy King to his tenure in Milwaukee - Frank Vogel & FO are aware of that history and that stain will affect his reputation if/when he tries that for a third time. He can't backstab anymore - he can only stab from the front. As long as Vogel commands Lebron's respect - he doesn't need to worry about that outcome. He can do that simply the level of preparation going into to each and every game. HC is a figurehead position - it's the complete coaching staff that should be taken into consideration when it comes to coaching not the head coach in a vacuum.

3) Lebron doesn't want another coaching hired/fired on his resume. He hates the notion that he's a coach killer - even if all great players are to some extent.

While i agree with you that I wished the Lakers handled this much better publicly and were pro-active about hiring the coach and controlling the perception. I believe the organization stumbled into a good decision.

That said numerous Fortune 500 companies stumble into good decisions due to the number of ego's in a room making decisions. I don't think this unique to the Lakers but rather a byproduct of any organization of this size with an authoritative CEO. It's much more common than the media leads us to believe.


If the Lakers win a championship within the next three years does it mater whether they mishandled the hiring or not? Imho they didn't because they had an agenda and they remained true to it, now others and some in the media will make a circus out of it and say it is atrocious just to get ratings. Results is what I care about and I have a good feeling Vogel and Kidd will work well together.


I read this kind of opinion a lot lately. Winning and functioning properly as an organization aren't mutually exclusive, and one is critically important to achieve the other. Teams don't slip on banana peels and land on championships. It's not an accident that the four remaining teams are stable, competent organizations.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


Lakers were going cheap on coaches, lol wonder how u feel about Kerr being paid $5mil or Spoelstra making $3 mil or D'Antoni making $4 mil. Don't believe Lakers went cheap on coaches just that they only wanted a coach for $3 yrs same number of years we have LBJ. Lue wanted more years so we moved on. I don't see Lou as a better coach than Vogel. At least Vogel looks like a coach that won't put a square peg through a round hole like Luke. I will have to see how he coach before making judgement.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


Lakers were going cheap on coaches, lol wonder how u feel about Kerr being paid $5mil or Spoelstra making $3 mil or D'Antoni making $4 mil. Don't believe Lakers went cheap on coaches just that they only wanted a coach for $3 yrs same number of years we have LBJ. Lue wanted more years so we moved on. I don't see Lou as a better coach than Vogel. At least Vogel looks like a coach that won't put a square peg through a round hole like Luke. I will have to see how he coach before making judgement.


If the Lakers wanted to make sure their coach didn't have any years beyond Lebrons contract there was nothing stopping them from firing a coach they signed to a longer deal. The only thing it impacts is Jeanie's pocketbook which some of you are really weirdly protective of.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


Lakers were going cheap on coaches, lol wonder how u feel about Kerr being paid $5mil or Spoelstra making $3 mil or D'Antoni making $4 mil. Don't believe Lakers went cheap on coaches just that they only wanted a coach for $3 yrs same number of years we have LBJ. Lue wanted more years so we moved on. I don't see Lou as a better coach than Vogel. At least Vogel looks like a coach that won't put a square peg through a round hole like Luke. I will have to see how he coach before making judgement.


If the Lakers wanted to make sure their coach didn't have any years beyond Lebrons contract there was nothing stopping them from firing a coach they signed to a longer deal. The only thing it impacts is Jeanie's pocketbook which some of you are really weirdly protective of.


Lakers can surely extend a coach for more years if they do a great job. 3 years is plenty of time to see if a coach is worth extending or not. Lou got greedy and he lost the job that was his if he wanted. I hope Vogel proves his coaching success. He proved he can take Indiana one star PG pretty far and we know LBJ is way better than PG. Add another star I hoping we get to championship level.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject:

Something I dont people talking about... since they forced him to take a 3 year contract it hurts the ability to sign up top flight assistants (why would an assistant want to come here with only a 3 year window over a more secure position?)
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
ahaider wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


While I believe the Lakers severely mishandled this situation, there is a case to be made that the Frank Vogel & Jason Kidd could be an effective pairing.

A lot has been made of Jason Kidd joining the staff & potentially undermining Vogel to seek the HC spot in the Lakers. I don't believe that Jason Kidd will ever be HC of the Lakers for 2 primary reasons.

1) Lakers are too sensitive to public perception. The moment the story leaked about losing Lue and the media was slamming us - they immediately hired Vogel. The optics surrounding Kidd particularly the domestic violence & his power play tendencies will never allow him to be HC. Simply put, they had the opportunity to hire Jason Kidd & hire Vogel as an assistant and they elected to not go that route.

2) His ambition for power is well documented. From backstabbing Billy King to his tenure in Milwaukee - Frank Vogel & FO are aware of that history and that stain will affect his reputation if/when he tries that for a third time. He can't backstab anymore - he can only stab from the front. As long as Vogel commands Lebron's respect - he doesn't need to worry about that outcome. He can do that simply the level of preparation going into to each and every game. HC is a figurehead position - it's the complete coaching staff that should be taken into consideration when it comes to coaching not the head coach in a vacuum.

3) Lebron doesn't want another coaching hired/fired on his resume. He hates the notion that he's a coach killer - even if all great players are to some extent.

While i agree with you that I wished the Lakers handled this much better publicly and were pro-active about hiring the coach and controlling the perception. I believe the organization stumbled into a good decision.

That said numerous Fortune 500 companies stumble into good decisions due to the number of ego's in a room making decisions. I don't think this unique to the Lakers but rather a byproduct of any organization of this size with an authoritative CEO. It's much more common than the media leads us to believe.


If the Lakers win a championship within the next three years does it mater whether they mishandled the hiring or not? Imho they didn't because they had an agenda and they remained true to it, now others and some in the media will make a circus out of it and say it is atrocious just to get ratings. Results is what I care about and I have a good feeling Vogel and Kidd will work well together.


I read this kind of opinion a lot lately. Winning and functioning properly as an organization aren't mutually exclusive, and one is critically important to achieve the other. Teams don't slip on banana peels and land on championships. It's not an accident that the four remaining teams are stable, competent organizations.


I don't know if a dysfunctional organization is a determining factor on championship teams. There's a list of dysfunctional teams who won championships based on the sheet talent alone. 2002 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2016 Cavaliers.

Talent is the single most important determining factor on championship contenders. Any FO in the league will look good if they sign 2 superstars and in turn will then become stable.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
ocho wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
epak wrote:
ocho wrote:
epak wrote:
Well with Brent Brown returning to the 76ers.
I wonder what the highly sought after Ty Lue does now.


Continues to collect from Dan Gilbert while waiting for a legitimate offer.


He sure will.


Collect yes. Something must be wrong for Lue not to be sought after by any other team.

If no offer comes next year then that will be truly telling.


Unlike Vogel and Kidd, who every team with a vacancy was clamoring for.


I haven't said Vogel or Kidd are great hires just Vogel is NOT a bargain bin no self respect coach who agreed to a contract to coach one of the most storied franchises in NBA history for 3 years making 15 million dollars. You feel comfortable making such statements and I guess we all have different thresholds of juding people.

I also don't criticize Lue for his coaching accumen or say he is a fool for turning down the opportunity to coach the Lakers. We all make our own choices and it is not my place to question someones character unless he or she proves worthy of such criticism.

Kidd is a different case with his history and I did not want him hired or associated with the Laker franchise.


Fair enough. I wish finding the best coach was their top priority rather than being driven by saving money and years and finding someone to jump through the various hoops the Lakers wanted them to. An organization like the Lakers should never cheap out on non-salary cap spending. Vogel isn't the guy they wanted. Or their second choice. Or evidently their third. He's a compromise that allows Jeanie to save money and is willing to allow his successor to sit in the chair next to him. I don't dislike Frank Vogel. I think he's going to give it his best and he may have something to offer the team. The problem is it appears he is being undermined before he even inked the deal. The investment in him is practically non-existent. They gave him essentially a 2 year deal. They put a snake in the chair next to him who will start lobbying to take his job asap. If Frank Vogel is their guy and they believe in him, so be it. But they chose him because he was in the bargain bin and because he said "how high?" when the Lakers asked him to jump. I don't think there are many coaches that can succeed in the horrible situation they've put him in. I wish him luck.


Lakers were going cheap on coaches, lol wonder how u feel about Kerr being paid $5mil or Spoelstra making $3 mil or D'Antoni making $4 mil. Don't believe Lakers went cheap on coaches just that they only wanted a coach for $3 yrs same number of years we have LBJ. Lue wanted more years so we moved on. I don't see Lou as a better coach than Vogel. At least Vogel looks like a coach that won't put a square peg through a round hole like Luke. I will have to see how he coach before making judgement.


If the Lakers wanted to make sure their coach didn't have any years beyond Lebrons contract there was nothing stopping them from firing a coach they signed to a longer deal. The only thing it impacts is Jeanie's pocketbook which some of you are really weirdly protective of.

Let me know the next time you purposely hire someone with the intention of overpaying them and firing them shortly after. It wasn't about money, it was about years. Apparently supply and demand is suspended when it comes to NBA negotiations
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
ahaider wrote:

While i agree with you that I wished the Lakers handled this much better publicly and were pro-active about hiring the coach and controlling the perception. I believe the organization stumbled into a good decision.

Good post.

Btw, this quoted bit got me wondering... it's like the Lakers are the Mr. Magoo of the NBA.


Well if you remember the cartoons in the end it always went well for Mr. Magoo.

That was the point, hehe. All's well that ends well folks!
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Let me know the next time you purposely hire someone with the intention of overpaying them and firing them shortly after. It wasn't about money, it was about years. Apparently supply and demand is suspended when it comes to NBA negotiations


I wouldn't operate that way, but then again there isn't much the Lakers do these days that I would endorse as sound judgment. Yes, hiring a coach you know you're going to fire before their contract is up is bad policy. So is limiting the scope of your deal to the point that you miss out on the coaches you really want, while also shoveling unfair demands onto them. So the Lakers got their 2 year deal and didn't get the coach they wanted, or their second choice, or really their 3rd choice. Congrats?
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject:

Curious but isn't Luke signing with Sacto lead to Jeanie being off the hook for his remaining 2 years?

What did Sacto pay him? Does anyone know?

Was it a monetary issue with why we went after 2nd rate coaches like Lue, Vogel, Monty? Or was it that simply there were no 1st rate established coaches available?

I remember saying last summer when Buldenhozer was leaving ATL, I wish we grabbed him. That's an elite coach. There aren't many elite coaches out there.

There just aren't that many elite coaches out there. I can name only a few in the league

Kerr
Pop
Buldenhozer
Carlisle
Stevens (although this year wasn't his best work)
Rivers (maybe, based on this year and last)

These are the type of guys you go out and pay big for. I think the lesson they learned with Luke is don't pay someone a 5 year massive deal if he isn't elite. We've only had one guy in Dr Buss' time who got paid as a coach and that was Phil. Even that was very hard for Dr Buss to do. I think Jeanie realizes that you pay for the right coach. We're not going to pay elite money for average coaches. Average money for average rated coaches. If the coach then somehow does well, you give him a raise and extension. This is what happened with Mike Malone in Denver, D'Antoni in Houston, Stotts in Portland. This is the sort of coach we hired IMO. Vogel is respected and seen as a good coach, but not someone that is coming of a strong job performance. Similar to the three coaches I mentioned. They were all coming in on short relatively cheap deals, and then did well and got a bigger extension. This happens all the time in the NBA. To act like the Lakers are above this strategy, is weird to me. I'd be upset if we passed over an elite coach to go with short changing Lue/Monty/signing Vogel-Kidd.

About Lue and Monty, ask yourselves if those two are worth 5 years, 35 million. Are they in the same class as Kerr, Pop, Buldenhozer, Stevens etc. I totally agree with passing on paying them, and I could care less about Jeanie's bottom line. The way you spend as a FO says a lot about you. The fact that in Jeanie's time we're not seeing the Deng/Mozgov deals. Or handing 5 year deals to newbie coaches like Luke, or just in general not making big investments in areas where it's not warranted, it's exactly why the team is able to have the situation today where you have a max player like Lebron, so many young players and draft assets and a max slot, Spending wisely is important. I could careless about their bottom line, but I do want a franchise that spends wisely. It trickles down to everything. Dr Buss lived with those principles. It remains to be seen if Jeanie will hold the same restraint, but thus far she has.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject:

Luke got 4 years with Sacramento.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Luke got 4 years with Sacramento.

But that puts Jeanie off the hook, no? So why would she penny pinch based on having to pay Luke? It's not like Mike Brown, or Byron, where they were not working and you fired them and then had to pay them the full guaranteed. Luke got a job right away.

As if you're saying the length of contract means Luke is seen as a better coach than Vogel, perhaps you're right. However, I don't really care about that from the Laker perspective because they already had Luke and clearly their best player LBJ didn't want him around. If there was no LBJ, different situation. With LBJ in place, Luke had to go. If we're trading LBJ, different story.

What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite. An elite coach never stays out of work long (unless he wants to) and certainly does not have to become an assistant again. Frank, Lue, Monty are all in the same category of coach IMO. Sure you can prefer one over the other, but based on their job history, I can't say you can absolutely argue for one over the other. I have no idea if it will work out with Vogel, and I see why people have concerns. However I certainly could care less that the Lakers saved money on this, or money was one of the reasons they went with Vogel.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
News to me....

Quote:
Miles Simon — the only holdover from Luke Walton’s coaching staff — is likely running these draft workouts.



The Lakers have begun working out players before the 2019 NBA draft, but so far it’s mostly fringe guys

By Harrison Faigen@hmfaigen May 14, 2019, 1:40pm PDT

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/5/14/18623761/lakers-2019-nba-draft-workouts-summer-league-second-rounders-jesse-buss-owner-scouting


Why when Lakers have no 2nd round pick, but only first round 4th, and it looks like they'll trade it?
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Curious but isn't Luke signing with Sacto lead to Jeanie being off the hook for his remaining 2 years?

We didn't fire Luke. We agreed to part ways mutually... most likely since he already had the offer from the Kings in hand before he went to Jeanie to ask if we'd give him an extension. This most likely also means we wouldn't have been on the hook for the remaining 2 years of his contract. I think that's the case here at least.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject:

Quote:
What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite.


If you're operating under the idea that Vogel and Lue are of the same caliber so why not just take the cheapest guy, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. You're simply wrong. In his first job, Lue went to the Finals every year, gained the respect of a star that is known for being difficult with coaches (who also happens to be on this team now) plus another difficult personality in Kyrie, and won a championship against a 73 win team by winning a game 7 on the road. By contrast, Frank Vogel was an unmitigated disaster in his last job. They got worse when he took over and significantly better when he left. They aren't the same.

2. The Lakers didn't see it that way either. They didn't even consider Vogel until their preferred choices fell through. They saw Vogel, imo, accurately: as a quality assistant. Only after they cheaped out and screwed up (and couldn't hire Kidd for other reasons) did Vogel become their guy and the reason is he was willing to jump through whatever hoops they presented and he was willing to take a cheapo deal.

3. Once Williams was off the board, the Lakers wanted Ty Lue as HC with Vogel and Kidd as assistants. I'd prefer to stay away from Kidd altogether because he's an atrocious coach, but it's a pretty good plan. According to reports, all that stood in their way was an extra year for Ty. They wanted 3, he wanted 5, and there was a compromise to be had at 4 and that's with Lue agreeing to their demands on assistants. We are talking about $5M of non salary cap spending. And it was a deal killer. Enjoy the extra cash, Jeanie!
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
Something I dont people talking about... since they forced him to take a 3 year contract it hurts the ability to sign up top flight assistants (why would an assistant want to come here with only a 3 year window over a more secure position?)


Nobody’s talking about it because it doesn’t matter. Assistants are getting their feet wet and sometimes don’t last past the season or the term of the head coach. It’s not a deal breaker.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject:

rogers49 wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
News to me....

Quote:
Miles Simon — the only holdover from Luke Walton’s coaching staff — is likely running these draft workouts.



The Lakers have begun working out players before the 2019 NBA draft, but so far it’s mostly fringe guys

By Harrison Faigen@hmfaigen May 14, 2019, 1:40pm PDT

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/5/14/18623761/lakers-2019-nba-draft-workouts-summer-league-second-rounders-jesse-buss-owner-scouting


Why when Lakers have no 2nd round pick, but only first round 4th, and it looks like they'll trade it?

Because they might not trade it and even if they do it's still an opportunity to collect a lot potentially useful information.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
rogers49 wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
News to me....

Quote:
Miles Simon — the only holdover from Luke Walton’s coaching staff — is likely running these draft workouts.



The Lakers have begun working out players before the 2019 NBA draft, but so far it’s mostly fringe guys

By Harrison Faigen@hmfaigen May 14, 2019, 1:40pm PDT

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/5/14/18623761/lakers-2019-nba-draft-workouts-summer-league-second-rounders-jesse-buss-owner-scouting


Why when Lakers have no 2nd round pick, but only first round 4th, and it looks like they'll trade it?

Because they might not trade it and even if they do it's still an opportunity to collect a lot potentially useful information.


They could also somehow acquire another draft pick.. Likely? not at all but after Zion nobody knows what could happen through the rest of the draft and with second rounders if there is someone still standing that they really liked in a workout they could try and just purchase a late pick as well.

It would be lazy if they weren't going all out and planning for the 200 alternate directions the draft can go. The best franchises in all sports are always prepared ahead of time and do a ton of extra work. That extra info they got could even be used sometime in the next few years in a trade or g league pickup as well.. You just never know and every team is looking for those dirt cheap diamonds in the rough to have on there roster.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject:

That was before they got the 4th pick
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite.


If you're operating under the idea that Vogel and Lue are of the same caliber so why not just take the cheapest guy, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. You're simply wrong. In his first job, Lue went to the Finals every year, gained the respect of a star that is known for being difficult with coaches (who also happens to be on this team now) plus another difficult personality in Kyrie, and won a championship against a 73 win team by winning a game 7 on the road. By contrast, Frank Vogel was an unmitigated disaster in his last job. They got worse when he took over and significantly better when he left. They aren't the same.

2. The Lakers didn't see it that way either. They didn't even consider Vogel until their preferred choices fell through. They saw Vogel, imo, accurately: as a quality assistant. Only after they cheaped out and screwed up (and couldn't hire Kidd for other reasons) did Vogel become their guy and the reason is he was willing to jump through whatever hoops they presented and he was willing to take a cheapo deal.

3. Once Williams was off the board, the Lakers wanted Ty Lue as HC with Vogel and Kidd as assistants. I'd prefer to stay away from Kidd altogether because he's an atrocious coach, but it's a pretty good plan. According to reports, all that stood in their way was an extra year for Ty. They wanted 3, he wanted 5, and there was a compromise to be had at 4 and that's with Lue agreeing to their demands on assistants. We are talking about $5M of non salary cap spending. And it was a deal killer. Enjoy the extra cash, Jeanie!


Why bring up Vogels last coaching gig, when he has not one star on his team, but ignored the fact that Lou was 0-6 w/o LBJ leading to his firing.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:37 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite.


If you're operating under the idea that Vogel and Lue are of the same caliber so why not just take the cheapest guy, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. You're simply wrong. In his first job, Lue went to the Finals every year, gained the respect of a star that is known for being difficult with coaches (who also happens to be on this team now) plus another difficult personality in Kyrie, and won a championship against a 73 win team by winning a game 7 on the road. By contrast, Frank Vogel was an unmitigated disaster in his last job. They got worse when he took over and significantly better when he left. They aren't the same.

2. The Lakers didn't see it that way either. They didn't even consider Vogel until their preferred choices fell through. They saw Vogel, imo, accurately: as a quality assistant. Only after they cheaped out and screwed up (and couldn't hire Kidd for other reasons) did Vogel become their guy and the reason is he was willing to jump through whatever hoops they presented and he was willing to take a cheapo deal.

3. Once Williams was off the board, the Lakers wanted Ty Lue as HC with Vogel and Kidd as assistants. I'd prefer to stay away from Kidd altogether because he's an atrocious coach, but it's a pretty good plan. According to reports, all that stood in their way was an extra year for Ty. They wanted 3, he wanted 5, and there was a compromise to be had at 4 and that's with Lue agreeing to their demands on assistants. We are talking about $5M of non salary cap spending. And it was a deal killer. Enjoy the extra cash, Jeanie!


Why bring up Vogels last coaching gig, when he has not one star on his team, but ignored the fact that Lou was 0-6 w/o LBJ leading to his firing.


Were...we not supposed to mention Vogel's last coaching gig? I understand he didn't have any stars, but Steve Clifford took essentially the same team and won 17 more games. I weigh that, and Lue's full seasons, more than a single 6 game stretch.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

No........15% [ 38 ]
Yes........43% [ 106 ]
Neutral..40% [ 98 ]
Total Votes : 242


Good stuff LG
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite.


If you're operating under the idea that Vogel and Lue are of the same caliber so why not just take the cheapest guy, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. You're simply wrong. In his first job, Lue went to the Finals every year, gained the respect of a star that is known for being difficult with coaches (who also happens to be on this team now) plus another difficult personality in Kyrie, and won a championship against a 73 win team by winning a game 7 on the road. By contrast, Frank Vogel was an unmitigated disaster in his last job. They got worse when he took over and significantly better when he left. They aren't the same.

2. The Lakers didn't see it that way either. They didn't even consider Vogel until their preferred choices fell through. They saw Vogel, imo, accurately: as a quality assistant. Only after they cheaped out and screwed up (and couldn't hire Kidd for other reasons) did Vogel become their guy and the reason is he was willing to jump through whatever hoops they presented and he was willing to take a cheapo deal.

3. Once Williams was off the board, the Lakers wanted Ty Lue as HC with Vogel and Kidd as assistants. I'd prefer to stay away from Kidd altogether because he's an atrocious coach, but it's a pretty good plan. According to reports, all that stood in their way was an extra year for Ty. They wanted 3, he wanted 5, and there was a compromise to be had at 4 and that's with Lue agreeing to their demands on assistants. We are talking about $5M of non salary cap spending. And it was a deal killer. Enjoy the extra cash, Jeanie!


Why bring up Vogels last coaching gig, when he has not one star on his team, but ignored the fact that Lou was 0-6 w/o LBJ leading to his firing.


Were...we not supposed to mention Vogel's last coaching gig? I understand he didn't have any stars, but Steve Clifford took essentially the same team and won 17 more games. I weigh that, and Lue's full seasons, more than a single 6 game stretch.


Yes this has been brought up many time already and the typical responds is, under Vogel he had to endure an injury-plagued season unlike what happened to Clifford where his team remained healthy all year. Which is also true
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
ocho wrote:
DLaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
What I'm asking is why is it so bad that Jeanie (or Rambo, or Pelinka or all of them) chose Vogel's shorter sweeter deal, over overpaying Lue/Monty? Neither Lue or Monty are elite coaches. Looking at their track record, neither is considered elite.


If you're operating under the idea that Vogel and Lue are of the same caliber so why not just take the cheapest guy, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. You're simply wrong. In his first job, Lue went to the Finals every year, gained the respect of a star that is known for being difficult with coaches (who also happens to be on this team now) plus another difficult personality in Kyrie, and won a championship against a 73 win team by winning a game 7 on the road. By contrast, Frank Vogel was an unmitigated disaster in his last job. They got worse when he took over and significantly better when he left. They aren't the same.

2. The Lakers didn't see it that way either. They didn't even consider Vogel until their preferred choices fell through. They saw Vogel, imo, accurately: as a quality assistant. Only after they cheaped out and screwed up (and couldn't hire Kidd for other reasons) did Vogel become their guy and the reason is he was willing to jump through whatever hoops they presented and he was willing to take a cheapo deal.

3. Once Williams was off the board, the Lakers wanted Ty Lue as HC with Vogel and Kidd as assistants. I'd prefer to stay away from Kidd altogether because he's an atrocious coach, but it's a pretty good plan. According to reports, all that stood in their way was an extra year for Ty. They wanted 3, he wanted 5, and there was a compromise to be had at 4 and that's with Lue agreeing to their demands on assistants. We are talking about $5M of non salary cap spending. And it was a deal killer. Enjoy the extra cash, Jeanie!


Why bring up Vogels last coaching gig, when he has not one star on his team, but ignored the fact that Lou was 0-6 w/o LBJ leading to his firing.


Were...we not supposed to mention Vogel's last coaching gig? I understand he didn't have any stars, but Steve Clifford took essentially the same team and won 17 more games. I weigh that, and Lue's full seasons, more than a single 6 game stretch.


Yes this has been brought up many time already and the typical responds is, under Vogel he had to endure an injury-plagued season unlike what happened to Clifford where his team remained healthy all year. Which is also true


Oh so it turns out he did a great job? Cool. Sounds like they should have kept him.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Look if you flashback in time, Frank is a better choice than Luke, right?
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