Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
13%
 13%  [ 47 ]
Yes
45%
 45%  [ 161 ]
Neutral
41%
 41%  [ 149 ]
Total Votes : 357

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
Tell me what he’s so good at?


Why? So you can dismiss it? His resume speaks for itself.

Reminder: Ty Lue isn't the greatest coach in the league. He was just better than the other candidates. The Lakers agreed.


Seems pretty negligible to me
LeBron’s gonna do whatever he wants either way
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:14 pm    Post subject:

That's what I'am afraid of. Are we getting a real coach a la Spoelstra or some Lebron yes men. I have an idea but we'll see.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:00 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.

Hmm... are they cheap? Or smart and financially responsible? There's 2 sides to every coin. Do you really want the FO to pay Lue the severance money he is owed by the Cavs after they fired him... and since Lue wanted a 5 year deal, also then give him additional severance money when he is inevitably let go in 3 years? So we'd be paying double the severance money, in a manner of speaking. I wouldn't want my team throwing away money like that.

As for not wanting "to pay for better options"... do you mean Lue or Monty? I think we got the best coach of the three TBH... let's wait and see how the season pans out to know more.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:07 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.
Who would you consider the better available options?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:08 am    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.

Hmm... are they cheap? Or smart and financially responsible? There's 2 sides to every coin. Do you really want the FO to pay Lue the severance money he is owed by the Cavs after they fired him... and since Lue wanted a 5 year deal, also then give him additional severance money when he is inevitably let go in 3 years? So we'd be paying double the severance money, in a manner of speaking. I wouldn't want my team throwing away money like that.

As for not wanting "to pay for better options"... do you mean Lue or Monty? I think we got the best coach of the three TBH... let's wait and see how the season pans out to know more.


from an XO standpoint, from what I've seen/read, I agree.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.

Hmm... are they cheap? Or smart and financially responsible? There's 2 sides to every coin. Do you really want the FO to pay Lue the severance money he is owed by the Cavs after they fired him... and since Lue wanted a 5 year deal, also then give him additional severance money when he is inevitably let go in 3 years? So we'd be paying double the severance money, in a manner of speaking. I wouldn't want my team throwing away money like that.

As for not wanting "to pay for better options"... do you mean Lue or Monty? I think we got the best coach of the three TBH... let's wait and see how the season pans out to know more.


So the FO would be hiring a coach knowing that he was someone that they intended to get rid of in a few years? That means cheap and incompetent.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.
Who would you consider the better available options?


The same guys our FO did, particularly Williams.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.

Hmm... are they cheap? Or smart and financially responsible? There's 2 sides to every coin. Do you really want the FO to pay Lue the severance money he is owed by the Cavs after they fired him... and since Lue wanted a 5 year deal, also then give him additional severance money when he is inevitably let go in 3 years? So we'd be paying double the severance money, in a manner of speaking. I wouldn't want my team throwing away money like that.

As for not wanting "to pay for better options"... do you mean Lue or Monty? I think we got the best coach of the three TBH... let's wait and see how the season pans out to know more.


So the FO would be hiring a coach knowing that he was someone that they intended to get rid of in a few years? That means cheap and incompetent.

Err, not exactly. If there's a positive or negative way to look at or think of something and then put it into words, you invariably choose the latter and try to shed a negative light on the FO. Why does it have to be cheap and incompetent? Why couldn't they have been considering Lue simply because LeGM insisted they do and/or because of their prior experience at the Cavs... and if so, then why couldn't they be, very appropriately, thinking of a 3 year contract to coincide with LeBron's contract? Is that outside the realm of possibility?

Why aren't you giving them even a little bit of credit for having a plan AND sticking to it? They clearly identified 3 coaches to interview, decided that the three were close enough in quality to not warrant going outside of the parameters they'd established for the contract (length and amount) in order to get one over the other. So why does this not mean they had a plan and also had the stones to stick to their guns... but becomes something "cheap and incompetent" in your mind?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

I give them credit for signing their third choice when he agreed to their terms. I think that Vogel is decent and one of the top 15 coaches in the league. He gave up a lot that other head coaches get from other teams so he really wanted this job. I think that Lue is better and that Williams offers the most long term. So I would rather have him but the FO wouldn’t meet his demands. No matter what you want to call it, the organization didn’t step up for their first option. As for being cheap it is as simple as looking at what other teams are investing in that the Lakers aren’t.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
The FO has given good contracts to Vogel + Kidd + Hollins + 3 others on top of that... a sizeable bit of coin in total for the whole staff... yet there will be peeps who try to make it seem like the FO is cheap and "preferred the savings". Two lessons to be learned here... 1) It's easy for some to throw away someone else's money... and 2) you can't please everyone!

Anyway, we appear to have a good coaching staff:
- Who wants to be here...
- Who didn't achieve success by riding on LeGramps' coat-tails...
- Who don't expect us to pick up the tab from being fired but still being owed money by their previous employers as long as they don't take up another head coaching role... (btw, isn't it convenient how this is glossed over when some talk about the FO being "cheap" with their offer to Lue?).
- And we finally have a shooting coach!!
Plenty of reasons to be optimistic.


As a fan I really don’t care about any of that. The organization was being cheap and afraid to step into the deep end, preferring to hang out closer to the kiddie pool. I have no issue with Bogel, I think that he is pretty average. We didn’t want to pay for the better options so we paid for average. But it makes sense, any non-CBA expense they have is out of pocket for the Buss kids.

Hmm... are they cheap? Or smart and financially responsible? There's 2 sides to every coin. Do you really want the FO to pay Lue the severance money he is owed by the Cavs after they fired him... and since Lue wanted a 5 year deal, also then give him additional severance money when he is inevitably let go in 3 years? So we'd be paying double the severance money, in a manner of speaking. I wouldn't want my team throwing away money like that.

As for not wanting "to pay for better options"... do you mean Lue or Monty? I think we got the best coach of the three TBH... let's wait and see how the season pans out to know more.


from an XO standpoint, from what I've seen/read, I agree.


He should be worried about Doc Rivers not who the Lakers coach is.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I give them credit for signing their third choice when he agreed to their terms. I think that Vogel is decent and one of the top 15 coaches in the league. He gave up a lot that other head coaches get from other teams so he really wanted this job. I think that Lue is better and that Williams offers the most long term. So I would rather have him but the FO wouldn’t meet his demands. No matter what you want to call it, the organization didn’t step up for their first option.

Well, I believe it was more of a 1A vs 2*1B choice (Lue being the 1A because of LeGM, Monty and Vogel both 1Bs)... as opposed to a 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd choice. The FO's actions appear to align with this too.

Quote:
As for being cheap it is as simple as looking at what other teams are investing in that the Lakers aren’t.

Again, how are we not investing... and what are we not investing in? Have you looked at a comparison of each team's expenditure on their coaching staff in total before coming to this conclusion or is it simply an agenda you're trying to push? If you have the numbers to share and thus convince me too, that would be great.

We appear to have spent some big bucks in total on:

Vogel
Kidd (high profile assistant should be getting a higher than normal salary)
Hollins
Penberthy
Handy
Crawford
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject:

Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:03 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I just find it funny that Vogel was being put down because he was an assistant level coach based on what the market was for him at that point in time, and Lue was a head coach. Yet, 2 months later, Lue got no job offers, and he ends up becoming an assistant.

I do not know if Vogel will work out with the Lakers. We have had so many coaches since Phil Jackson - not one of them have worked out. Some of them are doing well other places, but sucked with us.

So I am not excited about him, I have a wait and see approach.

I certainly do not think hiring Lebrons caddy was the answer either. I am actually happy we did not go with Lue, it would have been too similar to hiring Byron for Kobe, for his last few years as a Laker. The entire team would have known that Lue was there for Lebron and primarily only Lebron. I like we have a staff here that is not just here for Lebron. Lets see how it works out though. Replacing Phil Jackson has been an immensely difficult task for the Lakers. Brown, Bickerstaff, DAntoni, Byron, Luke. 5 coaches in 8 seasons. Now on to #6.

1) I mean, Vogel was going to be Lue's lead assistant. Let's not act like he somehow beat Lue out for this or any other job. Talks broke down between Lue and the Lakers because they wanted him to accept a below the market deal and pick his own staff for him. He didn't go for it, but Vogel did and here we are. That's the only reason why Vogel has the job. Not sure what's so remarkable or noteworthy about that other than the dysfunction at the top of the org.

2) LeBron's caddy, huh? You've just effectively terminated your credibility in this discussion. That's just being intentionally ignorant. It really says a lot that you could use something like that as part of your argument when you know you can't provide zilch to substantiate it. And I don't know if your Byron comparison is just a byproduct of your ignorance about this, but that comparison is just poop. Lue-LBJ would've been nothing like Byron-Kobe. Lue was the one who didn't have any fear of calling out LeBron during film sessions or games when Blatt was coach. In fact, if not for Lue's harsh criticisms of him during Game 7 against Golden State, it's very likely that The Block wouldn't have happened. You have no earthly idea what you're talking about, and it shows. You're better off not saying anything instead of offering up trash hot takes like that one.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:26 am    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
ocho wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Lebrons caddy


There maybe isn't a greater signifier of ignorance on this issue than this jab. Do some reading and be better than this.

Nice that you pick that one part of an entire post. It is well known that Lue is LBJs guy. Whether you see it that way or not, do not know. I know there are times Lue has gotten in LBJs face. However it is well known that Lue would be viewed as Lebrons coach. Vogel is not seen that way at all. They brought in Phil Handy from the Raps, to further develop players. Tried getting in Golden State assistant coach. The last thing anyone would think when you look at the current Lakers staff is that is a group only here to coach Lebron. Ty Lue, I had a sense he would be good for LBJ, but Anthony Davis - I do not want to see AD become what Kevin Love was in Cleveland.

What I do know is that you (and others) once claimed that Vogel was not a candidate for a HC job anywhere but with us and that Lue was a proven championship coach who would get other jobs or deserved better from LA. Guess what - Lue is now an assistant coach again. He should have taken the Laker job, if he wanted to be a HC - because no one else offered him (bleep). So this argument should be withdrawn, as Lue has not gotten any HC offers and has seen the light and gone back to being an assistant, probably looking for a HC gig next year or in 2 years.


Being someone that LeBron respects is quite different than being "LeBron's caddy". As if having buy in from your best player is a bad thing. Using that phrase simply shows a lack of knowledge about what happened in Cleveland. Full stop. What Kevin Love became in Cleveland was a champion, btw.

Vogel wasn't a candidate anywhere else and Lue is a championship coach. There was essentially one vacancy after Lue walked. I don't think he is seen as a coach for a rebuilding team full of kids, nor do I think that's what he wants. So the Memphis Grizzlies (who always do the right thing) didn't seek him out and that means he's bad? They didn't seek out Vogel either (the other teams that had vacancies while Lue was tied up with the Lakers didn't either). Or Kidd. Vogel was extremely unlikely to ever get a HC job again if not for the very unique and weird circumstances our FO made for themselves. Again, they didn't see him as HC material either. Frank Vogel is a head coach again only because the Lakers somehow found a way to screw up their first two choices and couldn't pick their third for political reasons. Im willing to bet Lue is a HC again before long.

Lue doesn't have to be trash just because you guys want to justify the embarrassing way Kurt and Rob handled things and he doesn't have to be Phil Jackson in order to lament screwing it up with him. He just had to be a cut above the rest of the field, which he clearly was. The Lakers agreed. He's who they wanted. The only thing stopping them was money. So they went to the bargain bin. Even if Vogel does a great job that's a terrible way of doing business.


Tell me what he’s so good at?

According to Cranjis' system, he's an elite offensive coach. What is Vogel good at? You're going to say defense, right? Something that his teams excelled in before the game had fully evolved? I do like (not love) Vogel, but Thibs is proof that being an elite defensive coach during that era doesn't guarantee success during this one. That's why Thibs' teams have sucked defensively for several years now. I do like Vogel's chances, but it would just be intellectually dishonest to not apply this same question to the coach who has accomplished considerably less. Let's get real here.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?

You really think Vogel would be their choice if that was the goal? That literally makes no sense. They would've secured Lue if that was what they were looking to do. Very irrational skepticism on your part.

Also, why the skepticism over getting buy in from the team? Are you skeptical of that because of who Vogel is as a coach or because of the personalities on the roster? I can't imagine it's the second one. This team is stocked with vets and guys who know what it takes to win.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?

You really think Vogel would be their choice if that was the goal? That literally makes no sense. They would've secured Lue if that was what they were looking to do. Very irrational skepticism on your part.

Also, why the skepticism over getting buy in from the team? Are you skeptical of that because of who Vogel is as a coach or because of the personalities on the roster? I can't imagine it's the second one. This team is stocked with vets and guys who know what it takes to win.


IMO my skepticism is valid until they prove it on the court. Just because they know what it takes to win does not mean they will “do” what it takes to win all season long. Many vet heavy teams have faltered due to bad chemistry or lack of buyin from the entire team.

Vogel and the staff have their work cut out for them managing egos and agendas along with systems on both ends, commitment to the team and effort.

The entire load management and mpg issues to be considered adds a complication before games are even played. Now the center depth adds concerns. Vogel has to manage these distractions while fans are expecting lofty championship goals without considering them.

Perhaps we differ in opinion on how willing and/or capable they are in becoming a true contender or a good team that has too many inconsistent stretches.

I’ll be interested and rooting for Laker success but until they prove it I will remain a bit skeptical it all comes together as flawlessly as some expect.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
I just find it funny that Vogel was being put down because he was an assistant level coach based on what the market was for him at that point in time, and Lue was a head coach. Yet, 2 months later, Lue got no job offers, and he ends up becoming an assistant.

I do not know if Vogel will work out with the Lakers. We have had so many coaches since Phil Jackson - not one of them have worked out. Some of them are doing well other places, but sucked with us.

So I am not excited about him, I have a wait and see approach.

I certainly do not think hiring Lebrons caddy was the answer either. I am actually happy we did not go with Lue, it would have been too similar to hiring Byron for Kobe, for his last few years as a Laker. The entire team would have known that Lue was there for Lebron and primarily only Lebron. I like we have a staff here that is not just here for Lebron. Lets see how it works out though. Replacing Phil Jackson has been an immensely difficult task for the Lakers. Brown, Bickerstaff, DAntoni, Byron, Luke. 5 coaches in 8 seasons. Now on to #6.

1) I mean, Vogel was going to be Lue's lead assistant. Let's not act like he somehow beat Lue out for this or any other job. Talks broke down between Lue and the Lakers because they wanted him to accept a below the market deal and pick his own staff for him. He didn't go for it, but Vogel did and here we are. That's the only reason why Vogel has the job. Not sure what's so remarkable or noteworthy about that other than the dysfunction at the top of the org.

2) LeBron's caddy, huh? You've just effectively terminated your credibility in this discussion. That's just being intentionally ignorant. It really says a lot that you could use something like that as part of your argument when you know you can't provide zilch to substantiate it. And I don't know if your Byron comparison is just a byproduct of your ignorance about this, but that comparison is just poop. Lue-LBJ would've been nothing like Byron-Kobe. Lue was the one who didn't have any fear of calling out LeBron during film sessions or games when Blatt was coach. In fact, if not for Lue's harsh criticisms of him during Game 7 against Golden State, it's very likely that The Block wouldn't have happened. You have no earthly idea what you're talking about, and it shows. You're better off not saying anything instead of offering up trash hot takes like that one.

I have not seen any proof that Vogel was going to be on Lue's staff. I heard Jason Kidd was, though. He was asked to take on Kidd, as part of when they were speaking. I never heard Vogel's name. Vogel from what I understand was thrown into the mix by Phil Jackson and Rambis, as they liked him when he interviewed for the Knicks job a few years ago, when Indiana let him go. I think he was on the list behind Monty and Lue.

Lue is seen as this great coach and yet he has been let go and no one has stepped up and gotten him. Why - how many times have you seen an elite coach lose a job 6 games into a season, after going to the Finals, and then not get hired for an entire 2 years as a HC? If Lue was valued as that sort of great coaching talent, teams would have removed their HCs to go out and get him.

Once Golden State got KD, Lue had no answer for them. The rest of the series weren't even competitive. really. So I don't think he is a mastermind at all, or any sort of coaching great. He had Lebron's respect, but he was also seen as Lebron's buddy and coaching choice. When you have that sort of scenario, you better believe the rest of the roster are going to see a guy who was brought in for Lebron, and has a special relationship with Lebron. actually like that we didn't do that.

I have no idea if Frank will turn out to be a success or not. I really don't. He did a good job in Indiana. He didn't in Orlando. 1 and 1. This is a risky move by the Lakers. Lue was a less risker choice given that he had a relationship with Lebron, but as shown by Golden State twice, once Lebron's team was not clearly the best, they got spanked. You mention one moment in 3 years. What about the other 2 Finals, where Lue got spanked? His teams were all Lebron and everyone else being a side show. This is part of why Kyrie wanted out. I dunno if Vogel will do that as well, but I know that if we want AD to sign longterm in LA which is vital to the longterm success of the franchise, they need a coach who will not make AD into a spot up shooter like KLove was.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Once Golden State got KD, Lue had no answer for them.


So the only coach to ever beat the Warriors is being criticized because after they added Kevin Durant they beat the Cavs? Exactly which coaches did figure out the KD Warriors?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?


I don’t care about how much is spent on coaches either. I care about things like player development, analytics, biometrics and training staffs. We are being outspent in those areas. We are still being ran like the 1980 Lakers. I too wish Vogel well, he is a good coach and I hope he gets the opportunity to manage the team as he sees fit.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?

You really think Vogel would be their choice if that was the goal? That literally makes no sense. They would've secured Lue if that was what they were looking to do. Very irrational skepticism on your part.

Also, why the skepticism over getting buy in from the team? Are you skeptical of that because of who Vogel is as a coach or because of the personalities on the roster? I can't imagine it's the second one. This team is stocked with vets and guys who know what it takes to win.


I think it makes a lot of sense. They weren’t going to pay Lue and I doubt that he would have let them hand pick his staff. Vogel didn’t care about either of those things, he was so happy to have the job that he didn’t care that the FO brought in his successor.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:

No wonder Lakers hires 3 head coaches, the team we’re putting together wil need all 3
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:41 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Judah wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Could care less about the money spent on coaches. My concern lies in what the main objective of Vogel truly is?

Was he hired to establish a structure and culture for the Lakers organization or focus on keeping James/ Davis/ Klutch happy? I don’t think the goals co-exist.

I do not envy the job Vogel and his staff are being asked to do. Getting this makeshift roster to buy in and play winning basketball is going to be rough. Especially with the sky high expectations of fans and dealing with the multiple underlying agendas needing to be dealt with.

I wish Vogel and his staff a lot of luck in this high wire balancing act. Anyone know the Vegas odds of him lasting more then a year?

You really think Vogel would be their choice if that was the goal? That literally makes no sense. They would've secured Lue if that was what they were looking to do. Very irrational skepticism on your part.

Also, why the skepticism over getting buy in from the team? Are you skeptical of that because of who Vogel is as a coach or because of the personalities on the roster? I can't imagine it's the second one. This team is stocked with vets and guys who know what it takes to win.


I think it makes a lot of sense. They weren’t going to pay Lue and I doubt that he would have let them hand pick his staff. Vogel didn’t care about either of those things, he was so happy to have the job that he didn’t care that the FO brought in his successor.

Nah, you're misunderstanding. He said he has a suspicion that Vogel was hired to make LeBron and Klutch happy. There's no angle where that makes sense. LeBron and Klutch wouldn't have chosen Vogel.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject:

Vogel hired to make LeBron happy? 😂 Lue says hi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

Just glad that only 12% of LG doesn't like Frank.
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