Frank Vogel Official Lakers Head Coach for 3-Years
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Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach?
No
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 12%  [ 59 ]
Yes
54%
 54%  [ 265 ]
Neutral
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 33%  [ 162 ]
Total Votes : 486

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iimarshon
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:49 am    Post subject:

When is Quin Snyder’s deal up?
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/tim_nba/status/1460616389459337221?s=21

first of all, AD is very bad at passing out of double teams. for whatever reason, he holds the ball too long.
second, the double team usually comes from the guy guarding Rondo or Westbrook or even AB.

to make matters worse. they are hunting AD on offense because they know he always switches to the guards, and whenever that happens, they just attack the basket because we only have 4 smaller guards back there. this is different than previous years because when AD was roaming outside, we have either center (marc, Dwight, AD2, Mcgee) or big forwards (LBJ, Kieff, Kuz_) back there.
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/tim_nba/status/1460616389459337221?s=21

first of all, AD is very bad at passing out of double teams. for whatever reason, he holds the ball too long.
second, the double team usually comes from the guy guarding Rondo or Westbrook or even AB.

to make matters worse. they are hunting AD on offense because they know he always switches to the guards, and whenever that happens, they just attack the basket because we only have 4 smaller guards back there. this is different than previous years because when AD was roaming outside, we have either center (marc, Dwight, AD2, Mcgee) or big forwards (LBJ, Kieff, Kuz_) back there.


We'll have LBJ, Melo and Ariza so hopefully that help
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject:

TMG wrote:
Not blaming Frank for how this team is playing. You cant hire a coach who's strength lies in defense and trade away all the perimeter defenders we have replacing them with players who've never been known for playing a lick of defense. I feel for Frank i really do. No way he was consulted on these trades.


Definitely on Rob to have such a flimsy grasp of basketball that he can’t see how badly we have needed an offensive minded coach, especially one that can figure out how to use Westbrook off-ball. He probably doesn’t even realize Frank can’t crack the double team problem. Somebody that knows the sport would be a good qualification for our next GM.
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roger_federer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:28 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
Like Gilbert Arenas said, we won that championship because the Heat were not good enough.

Vogel does not know what he is doing and it is obvious. His line ups are (bleep).

rondo
tht
bradley
dwight

on the floor together should tell you all you need to know.

Russell + Rondo on the floor should tell you all you need to know.

This offense of throwing the ball to AD down the block for a fade away is not going to work. We need actual ball and body movement and the right combination of players out there.

Westbrook shot 47% and scored 27ppg under mdantoni... but tucker 6"6 was their center because of his shooting. On this team vogel keeps starting deandre and playing westbrook with guys like THT, Rondo, Bradley etc... what are you doing bro?


Westbrook
Ellington
LeBron (baze until bron comes back)
Melo
Davis



that's it.

as a coach the message should be forget winning, forget scoring, I want to see the ball swinging and bodies constantly moving. You don't move, and don't look to cut and you are out of the game, you hold the ball for more than 4 seconds, out of the game. We need to play like a team. The wins will come once we get rid of these bad habits of playing old school basketball.


That lineup sucks. Melo/WB/Elling can't defend a traffic cone. LBJ is old.

This entire roster is badly constructed. No mater how you slice and dice, you always have 2-3 bad defenders on the floor all the time.

You know what Vogel's strengths and weaknesses are. You can't give him a square and put it in a circle.

How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C.

for all the BS teams have to do to accommodate WB, he still shoots horrible and make very bad plays
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:21 am    Post subject:

roger_federer wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Like Gilbert Arenas said, we won that championship because the Heat were not good enough.

Vogel does not know what he is doing and it is obvious. His line ups are (bleep).

rondo
tht
bradley
dwight

on the floor together should tell you all you need to know.

Russell + Rondo on the floor should tell you all you need to know.

This offense of throwing the ball to AD down the block for a fade away is not going to work. We need actual ball and body movement and the right combination of players out there.

Westbrook shot 47% and scored 27ppg under mdantoni... but tucker 6"6 was their center because of his shooting. On this team vogel keeps starting deandre and playing westbrook with guys like THT, Rondo, Bradley etc... what are you doing bro?


Westbrook
Ellington
LeBron (baze until bron comes back)
Melo
Davis



that's it.

as a coach the message should be forget winning, forget scoring, I want to see the ball swinging and bodies constantly moving. You don't move, and don't look to cut and you are out of the game, you hold the ball for more than 4 seconds, out of the game. We need to play like a team. The wins will come once we get rid of these bad habits of playing old school basketball.


That lineup sucks. Melo/WB/Elling can't defend a traffic cone. LBJ is old.

This entire roster is badly constructed. No mater how you slice and dice, you always have 2-3 bad defenders on the floor all the time.

You know what Vogel's strengths and weaknesses are. You can't give him a square and put it in a circle.

How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C.

for all the BS teams have to do to accommodate WB, he still shoots horrible and make very bad plays


Agree with everything you said, but the frustrating part to me is the lack of identity on offense. Frank is a defensive coach, I get that, but our offense is just all over the place. You can’t take 18 seconds to get the ball to AD in the high post. The lack of a sustainable half court offense is hurting the defense just as much as the lack of defense is hurting the transition buckets.
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laker4life
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:29 am    Post subject:

Vogel is not making adjustment at half times.

We are in trouble.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:00 am    Post subject:

roger_federer wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Like Gilbert Arenas said, we won that championship because the Heat were not good enough.

Vogel does not know what he is doing and it is obvious. His line ups are (bleep).

rondo
tht
bradley
dwight

on the floor together should tell you all you need to know.

Russell + Rondo on the floor should tell you all you need to know.

This offense of throwing the ball to AD down the block for a fade away is not going to work. We need actual ball and body movement and the right combination of players out there.

Westbrook shot 47% and scored 27ppg under mdantoni... but tucker 6"6 was their center because of his shooting. On this team vogel keeps starting deandre and playing westbrook with guys like THT, Rondo, Bradley etc... what are you doing bro?


Westbrook
Ellington
LeBron (baze until bron comes back)
Melo
Davis



that's it.

as a coach the message should be forget winning, forget scoring, I want to see the ball swinging and bodies constantly moving. You don't move, and don't look to cut and you are out of the game, you hold the ball for more than 4 seconds, out of the game. We need to play like a team. The wins will come once we get rid of these bad habits of playing old school basketball.


That lineup sucks. Melo/WB/Elling can't defend a traffic cone. LBJ is old.

This entire roster is badly constructed. No mater how you slice and dice, you always have 2-3 bad defenders on the floor all the time.

You know what Vogel's strengths and weaknesses are. You can't give him a square and put it in a circle.

How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C.

for all the BS teams have to do to accommodate WB, he still shoots horrible and make very bad plays


"How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C."

Tucker is 6"6, Davis is 6"11 and is a top shot blocker, and rebounder. LeBron is also a bigger than draymond green and an excellent rebounder.

You say our players are bad defenders, than why not go all in on offense and hope Davis, Bron and Westbrook can start playing some decent D?

What's up with the new days stars not wanting to play D? I thought they spoke of sacrifice? Look at what kobe did in the olympics. But maybe the coach doesn't suggest these things and just goes with the flow.
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poppies
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject:

I really wonder how much Vogel is playing 3D chess. That is, I've noticed he gets quite a bit busier and more unique at the end part of a season and into playoffs. Perhaps he thinks that in this day of intensive scouting, it's worth tanking a season just enough not to miss the playoffs, so that you can have fresh weapons when it counts.

Probably not the case, haha, but it would explain some things that seem to demand obvious adjustments that don't get made.
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roger_federer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:04 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
roger_federer wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
Like Gilbert Arenas said, we won that championship because the Heat were not good enough.

Vogel does not know what he is doing and it is obvious. His line ups are (bleep).

rondo
tht
bradley
dwight

on the floor together should tell you all you need to know.

Russell + Rondo on the floor should tell you all you need to know.

This offense of throwing the ball to AD down the block for a fade away is not going to work. We need actual ball and body movement and the right combination of players out there.

Westbrook shot 47% and scored 27ppg under mdantoni... but tucker 6"6 was their center because of his shooting. On this team vogel keeps starting deandre and playing westbrook with guys like THT, Rondo, Bradley etc... what are you doing bro?


Westbrook
Ellington
LeBron (baze until bron comes back)
Melo
Davis



that's it.

as a coach the message should be forget winning, forget scoring, I want to see the ball swinging and bodies constantly moving. You don't move, and don't look to cut and you are out of the game, you hold the ball for more than 4 seconds, out of the game. We need to play like a team. The wins will come once we get rid of these bad habits of playing old school basketball.


That lineup sucks. Melo/WB/Elling can't defend a traffic cone. LBJ is old.

This entire roster is badly constructed. No mater how you slice and dice, you always have 2-3 bad defenders on the floor all the time.

You know what Vogel's strengths and weaknesses are. You can't give him a square and put it in a circle.

How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C.

for all the BS teams have to do to accommodate WB, he still shoots horrible and make very bad plays


"How far did the Rockets go with WB scoring 47% and PJ playing C."

Tucker is 6"6, Davis is 6"11 and is a top shot blocker, and rebounder. LeBron is also a bigger than draymond green and an excellent rebounder.

You say our players are bad defenders, than why not go all in on offense and hope Davis, Bron and Westbrook can start playing some decent D?

What's up with the new days stars not wanting to play D? I thought they spoke of sacrifice? Look at what kobe did in the olympics. But maybe the coach doesn't suggest these things and just goes with the flow.


when we have 3 non shooters ( WB, AD, LBJ) who plays very similar game ( attack the rim), opponents can just pack the paint and our oher 2 need to shoot amazing to keep up because of our horrible defense.

Offense is not Vogel's strong suit. Still the FO/LBJ constructed a roster in a where we can't use Vogel strengths and wan him to do something he is not capable of
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Imagine being an NBA coach and getting away with "not being an offensive coach". That is literally half the game if not more in today's NBA.

Just like defense translates into offense, offense translates into defense.
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rybee
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:01 pm    Post subject:

That lineup at the beginning of the fourth
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject:

Games like tonight where it gets hard for me to support Vogel... He's just not a good coach when it comes to in game adjustment.

No excuse for him to have a line-up out there without AD/Russ/Melo/THT... That beginning of the 4th pretty much negated all the adjustment he made in the 3rd tonight.
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Outspoken
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Games like tonight where it gets hard for me to support Vogel... He's just not a good coach when it comes to in game adjustment.

No excuse for him to have a line-up out there without AD/Russ/Melo/THT... That beginning of the 4th pretty much negated all the adjustment he made in the 3rd tonight.


He went with Bazemore......
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
Games like tonight where it gets hard for me to support Vogel... He's just not a good coach when it comes to in game adjustment.

No excuse for him to have a line-up out there without AD/Russ/Melo/THT... That beginning of the 4th pretty much negated all the adjustment he made in the 3rd tonight.


He went with Bazemore......


It's not just Bazemore... But that whole line-up was whack. DJ instead of Dwight? Along side Ellington/Monk/Rondo/Bazemore? Rondo should not be getting any run with THT now.

Westbrook/Monk/Ellington/Melo/Dwight should have been the line-up. Then you bring in THT/AD for Melo/Westbrook... Then closed with the starting line-up.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Rondo should stay on the bench
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Outspoken
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
Games like tonight where it gets hard for me to support Vogel... He's just not a good coach when it comes to in game adjustment.

No excuse for him to have a line-up out there without AD/Russ/Melo/THT... That beginning of the 4th pretty much negated all the adjustment he made in the 3rd tonight.


He went with Bazemore......


It's not just Bazemore... But that whole line-up was whack. DJ instead of Dwight? Along side Ellington/Monk/Rondo/Bazemore? Rondo should not be getting any run with THT now.

Westbrook/Monk/Ellington/Melo/Dwight should have been the line-up. Then you bring in THT/AD for Melo/Westbrook... Then closed with the starting line-up.


His rotations are terrible. No doubt.
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Kobetan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject:

Sure there are a few reasons that Vogel seems to be struggling with this roster.. He may not have gotten guys he truly wants, injuries to key players piled up, old guys etc...

But I can't help but wonder how this team would perform under coaches like Kerr, Lue, or even Popp.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Do we need to revert to 2019 offense, u know, Bron running it, leading the league in assist, dude is 37 but we might need it to get the squad clicking
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Do we need to revert to 2019 offense, u know, Bron running it, leading the league in assist, dude is 37 but we might need it to get the squad clicking


Yes they do!

Because in reality, the team is structured for him to assume that role and he excels at that role.

The flaw in the plan is he is 37 yrs old with over 60,000 career mpg and can not consistently sustain the role any longer. Has always been the flaw.
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danzag
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:44 am    Post subject:

rybee wrote:
That lineup at the beginning of the fourth


I really couldn't understand the rationale behind it
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:53 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
governator wrote:
Do we need to revert to 2019 offense, u know, Bron running it, leading the league in assist, dude is 37 but we might need it to get the squad clicking


Yes they do!

Because in reality, the team is structured for him to assume that role and he excels at that role.

The flaw in the plan is he is 37 yrs old with over 60,000 career mpg and can not consistently sustain the role any longer. Has always been the flaw.


The plan was for Brodie/Rondo tandem to fill in that role too but it ain't working and at 37, its this chip or bust season, might as well push thru the wall (I mean smartly)
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Do we need to revert to 2019 offense, u know, Bron running it, leading the league in assist, dude is 37 but we might need it to get the squad clicking

Hard to do that when Bron is sitting out 70% of the games. Right now Bron has missed 70% of our games. So we're basically relying a lot on Westbrook, and now THT as well.

I think the right balance would be to allow Westbrook/THT to start off the game as they have been, and they need to find ways to utilize AD. When teams play AD straight up, they have to milk that. When teams don't, cut a lot more, don't just settle for open 3s. When we have Bron, we have a third penetration threat, but he is also a solid 3 point shooter. Teams are going to have to deal with another PG out there, and our offense will get better just by default.

Here's the thing for me. When the 2nd half rolls, Bron needs to take control. Westbrook shifts completely into a secondary attacker. The "Wade" role. THT has shown he can hit the spot up 3 and create. I don't want to get excited about something that has yet to be seen, but when you look at the talent, Bron/AD/THT/Westbrook. Man, we got to give that a try and find ways to make it work. It may require a very smart 5th option like Reaves, who just cuts, moves, etc. to make it work. And we need to be more physical on D. Or maybe it's Melo, who is by far the most natural shooter with size. Considering you are going a little smaller with AD at the 5, having a stronger post defender like Melo at the 4 may not be bad. AD/Melo/Bron/THT/Westbrook. When WB does what he does well, keep playing him. When he does what he doesn't do well, you sub him out early for one of the fiesty guards on our team that can shoot 3s (we have a lot of those). In that scenario where WB is sitting for sure it's Bron/THT running the PG/creating.

How Bron comes back and approaches this season, will define where we finish in the standings, IMO. If he comes back to help on both ends and be a MVP level guy, we're gonna soar. If he's there to coast and shoot a lot of 3s, then we're gonna be in another play in situation in April. How he began the season wasn't the same way he began the previous 2 seasons. He has to get back to the level he showed the last 2 season's start. He was a MVP on offense, and played D at a committed level. We really have no choice here. Either Lebron comes back and things get better by a lot, or we are facing the reality of being a lower playoff seed that has to fight for a play in, with no HCA all playoffs.
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RusselDoeee01
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject:

I think Vogel overthinks everything.. Every single game he makes a questionable rotation.

IMO he should let Davis run with the second team more mainly in favor of him playing with Rondo which they play well together.

WB
THT
Bradley
Melo
Dwight

Rondo
Bazemore/Ellington
Monk
AD
DJ
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:08 pm    Post subject:

why don't we go back to play big when teams are clearly attacking our small lineups? at least give it some run with Dwight and AD.
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