Chernobyl
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
ribeye wrote:
adkindo wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Now I'm beginning to understand why Legasov hung himself.

It's like every episode is more horrifying than the last learning what had to be done to fix this. Craig Mazin mentioned on the podcast that part of the clean up involved culling animals but it didn't occur to me that also included domestic pets.

Looking forward to the release of the next podcast episode to find out more background.


I had to semi ffw through those parts...no Fido hunting for me. Totally skipped ahead when he came upon the momma and pups. I loved the opening...that elderly lady was too old and had lived through too much to fear a young soldier with a gun. Finally, the news of Lyudmilla Ignatenko living because her baby absorbed the radiation was crushing....surprised she does not hang herself.


Oh you wiener . . . or should I say I'm glad that I have have company, as I had to fast forward as well.

Brutal episode.


Did you fast forward with the lady milking the cow?


No. Cows and people I can take. Dogs and cats, not so much.


The podcast goes into this further and talks about a brutal scene that was cut. I probably would have missed this as well as my fast forward finger was ready.

Also they say by the end of episode 5, the viewer will be certain of everything that happened.


Just heard him describe the scene that was cut. It was a dog that was still alive after being shot. The soldiers had run out of bullets to finish it off so it was going to be buried alive in cement along with the dead ones. He was right to cut that scene. That's too much. What was left in the final cut was horrible enough.


as if hearing it on the podcast had not already made me feel all warm and fuzzy.....reading it hear for the 2nd time did the trick
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numero-ocho
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
ribeye wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
ribeye wrote:
adkindo wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Now I'm beginning to understand why Legasov hung himself.

It's like every episode is more horrifying than the last learning what had to be done to fix this. Craig Mazin mentioned on the podcast that part of the clean up involved culling animals but it didn't occur to me that also included domestic pets.

Looking forward to the release of the next podcast episode to find out more background.


I had to semi ffw through those parts...no Fido hunting for me. Totally skipped ahead when he came upon the momma and pups. I loved the opening...that elderly lady was too old and had lived through too much to fear a young soldier with a gun. Finally, the news of Lyudmilla Ignatenko living because her baby absorbed the radiation was crushing....surprised she does not hang herself.


Oh you wiener . . . or should I say I'm glad that I have have company, as I had to fast forward as well.

Brutal episode.


Did you fast forward with the lady milking the cow?


No. Cows and people I can take. Dogs and cats, not so much.


The podcast goes into this further and talks about a brutal scene that was cut. I probably would have missed this as well as my fast forward finger was ready.

Also they say by the end of episode 5, the viewer will be certain of everything that happened.


Just heard him describe the scene that was cut. It was a dog that was still alive after being shot. The soldiers had run out of bullets to finish it off so it was going to be buried alive in cement along with the dead ones. He was right to cut that scene. That's too much. What was left in the final cut was horrible enough.


as if hearing it on the podcast had not already made me feel all warm and fuzzy.....reading it hear for the 2nd time did the trick


I actually teared up a little writing it.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Welp...
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject:

I really liked the conversation they had about going public with the information. And how Boris says how easy it may seem to stick to your morals and do what is right but it's not that easy when you're trying to avoid a bullet for yourself and your family.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:44 am    Post subject:

Stephen King Explains Why HBO’s ‘Chernobyl’ Reminds Him Of Donald Trump

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It's impossible to watch HBO's CHERNOBYL without thinking of Donald Trump; like those in charge of the doomed Russian reactor, he's a man of mediocre intelligence in charge of great power--economic, global--that he does not understand.


I had the nearly exact same thoughts plus I will add that those in charge in the Soviet Union lacked transparency and lied to their people and the world, had a strongman attitude, and were full of hubris with a sick narcissistic pride.
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject:

^^^Stephen King is an arrogant narcissistic leftist tool. Him and many like him are so weak minded that their entire existence has been confiscated by thoughts of a politician. He makes these silly comments routinely as a method of tantrum. King sees Trump in his oatmeal each morning.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:02 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^^Stephen King is an arrogant narcissistic leftist tool. Him and many like him are so weak minded that their entire existence has been confiscated by thoughts of a politician. He makes these silly comments routinely as a method of tantrum. King sees Trump in his oatmeal each morning.


May or may not be true, but his statement is right on.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^^Stephen King is an arrogant narcissistic leftist tool. Him and many like him are so weak minded that their entire existence has been confiscated by thoughts of a politician. He makes these silly comments routinely as a method of tantrum. King sees Trump in his oatmeal each morning.

So what? Trump's an arrogant, narcissistic, thankfully somewhat inept wannabe fascist tool who constantly throws tantrums. But only one guy can (bleep) up a whole lotta people's lives with a tweet while the other chaps the hides of conservatives for a few minutes.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject:

Show is really good I like the look and feel. I was however disappointed that the most impassioned speech was made by a composite character (the female physicist). So it was made up from whole cloth.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
^^^Stephen King is an arrogant narcissistic leftist tool. Him and many like him are so weak minded that their entire existence has been confiscated by thoughts of a politician. He makes these silly comments routinely as a method of tantrum. King sees Trump in his oatmeal each morning.

So what? Trump's an arrogant, narcissistic, thankfully somewhat inept wannabe fascist tool who constantly throws tantrums. But only one guy can (bleep) up a whole lotta people's lives with a tweet while the other chaps the hides of conservatives for a few minutes.


the only hide being chapped is yours.....it has nothing to do with Trump....he said nothing in this conversation. I was not even defending Trump or any conservative cause....only highlighting that as King has became elderly, he has increased his spewing of leftist talking points and has no credibility. This is the old dude that insinuated US military members are illiterate.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
^^^Stephen King is an arrogant narcissistic leftist tool. Him and many like him are so weak minded that their entire existence has been confiscated by thoughts of a politician. He makes these silly comments routinely as a method of tantrum. King sees Trump in his oatmeal each morning.

So what? Trump's an arrogant, narcissistic, thankfully somewhat inept wannabe fascist tool who constantly throws tantrums. But only one guy can (bleep) up a whole lotta people's lives with a tweet while the other chaps the hides of conservatives for a few minutes.


the only hide being chapped is yours.....it has nothing to do with Trump....he said nothing in this conversation. I was not even defending Trump or any conservative cause....only highlighting that as King has became elderly, he has increased his spewing of leftist talking points and has no credibility. This is the old dude that insinuated US military members are illiterate.


makes him trumplike
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject:

Bravo! To the creators, cast and crew of Chernobyl.

I thoroughly enjoyed that from start to finish.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject:

the list of numerical facts at the conclusion was just crazy.....the "official" number of deaths is still 31!

Was also very surprised to learn the divers survived, and 2 are still living.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject:

Republicans love to say Reagan ended the cold war. Though his contribution must be recognized, there are many, many reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union, with Reagan being down the list in significance.

As the closing credits indicated, Gorbachev himself said that Chernobly was a factor, a "turning point" in the fall of the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject:

Masterpiece.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Republicans love to say Reagan ended the cold war. Though his contribution must be recognized, there are many, many reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union, with Reagan being down the list in significance.

As the closing credits indicated, Gorbachev himself said that Chernobly was a factor, a "turning point" in the fall of the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with that.


because a former communist General Secretary said so? Of course there was more than one single man or event the led to the demise of the Soviet Union, therefore the Cold War....but if not for Reagan's strong positions at the time, it would not have ended when it did. Would it have continued another decade? 2 decades if Jimmy Carter was re-elected? Nobody can say they know as fact.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Republicans love to say Reagan ended the cold war. Though his contribution must be recognized, there are many, many reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union, with Reagan being down the list in significance.

As the closing credits indicated, Gorbachev himself said that Chernobly was a factor, a "turning point" in the fall of the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with that.


because a former communist General Secretary said so? Of course there was more than one single man or event the led to the demise of the Soviet Union, therefore the Cold War....but if not for Reagan's strong positions at the time, it would not have ended when it did. Would it have continued another decade? 2 decades if Jimmy Carter was re-elected? Nobody can say they know as fact.


Quote:
According to Gorbachev, the Chernobyl explosion was a “turning point” that “opened the possibility of much greater freedom of expression, to the point that the system as we knew it could no longer continue.” Gorbachev introduced his policy of glasnost, or “openness” of ideas and expression, not long before the Chernobyl explosion. It was his remedy for widespread censorship and government secrecy. To Gorbachev, Chernobyl proved the wisdom and necessity of glasnost. The explosion and attendant tumult, he claims, “made absolutely clear how important it was to continue the policy of glasnost.”


Link

While it can be a case of changing the narrative, it is also possible that he is telling truth, to a degree. It's possible that this was the a main internal factor while the US/Reagan was the main external factor. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

^^^I agree. There were many internal and external factors that took place over decades that brought down the Soviet Union. Some carried more weight than others, but each played a role. In the same way, places like North Korea will one day become more open and the totalitarian dictatorship will adjust or fall. I just can't tell you if it will happen next year or in 30 years.....but in similar fashion it will be the result of countless internal and external factors. We have seen countries like China have to undergo significant changes to prevent their communist leadership from completely losing power/falling.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Republicans love to say Reagan ended the cold war. Though his contribution must be recognized, there are many, many reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union, with Reagan being down the list in significance.

As the closing credits indicated, Gorbachev himself said that Chernobly was a factor, a "turning point" in the fall of the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with that.


because a former communist General Secretary said so? Of course there was more than one single man or event the led to the demise of the Soviet Union, therefore the Cold War....but if not for Reagan's strong positions at the time, it would not have ended when it did. Would it have continued another decade? 2 decades if Jimmy Carter was re-elected? Nobody can say they know as fact.


I won't belabor this here, but what you represent is the American conservative point of view. There are other points of view in this country and in the world, but then there is the point of view from those who lived it, who lived through the totality of what Russia had become -- that Chernobyl came to represent. Also, though I don't recall his name at the time, a famous Russian general stated that Reagan actually impeded reconciliation because their hardliners did not trust him. You see, there were right wing hardliners on both sides.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject:

Not very well received in Russia.

https://news.avclub.com/russia-hates-hbos-chernobyl-vows-to-make-its-own-serie-1835298424

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The Kremlin, who, per this piece from The Moscow Times, has used its media arm to launch a “mini-crusade” against the series, which has apparently become a source of fascination in Russia.

“The fact that an American, not a Russian, TV channel tells us about our own heroes is a source of shame that the pro-Kremlin media apparently cannot live down,” writes the Times’ Ilya Shepelin. “And this is the real reason they find fault with HBO’s Chernobyl series.”

Part of this crusade is a Russia-produced series from the country’s NTV channel. Directed by filmmaker Alexei Muradov, their project will focus not on the aftermath of the explosion, but instead on what Shepelin calls a “conspiracy theory” that inserts American spies into the narrative.

Of his story, Muradov says, “One theory holds that Americans had infiltrated the Chernobyl nuclear power plant and many historians do not deny that, on the day of the explosion, an agent of the enemy’s intelligence services was present at the station.” The heroes, then, will not be the scientists, soldiers, and civilians who helped prevent a further spread of radiation, but rather the KGB officers trying to thwart these CIA operatives.

As Shepelin notes, Russia’s leadership rarely honors Chernobyl’s survivors. “Just go to the official Kremlin website to see how often President Vladimir Putin mentions the Chernobyl survivors—many of whom are still alive and suffer from a variety of radiation-induced illnesses,” writes the Times’ Ilya Shepelin. “Putin’s sole references to them occur on the major anniversaries of the Chernobyl accident. He last mentioned them in 2016, on the 30th anniversary of the disaster, and again in 2011, on the 25th anniversary.”

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Not very well received in Russia.

https://news.avclub.com/russia-hates-hbos-chernobyl-vows-to-make-its-own-serie-1835298424


Not surprising at all.

I would not be surprised if one of our branches of government, and one half (effectively) of another, accept the Russian version with CIA involvement, as fact.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Not very well received in Russia.


Neither was the radiation poisoning.

brilliant miniseries. wish they wouldn't have waited until the very end to spring roose bolton on us
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject:

I just started watching.... you know the real truth on how the plant was stabilized right...

http://www.pravdareport.com/news/russia/18024-n/
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Not very well received in Russia.


Neither was the radiation poisoning.

brilliant miniseries. wish they wouldn't have waited until the very end to spring roose bolton on us


I was expecting him to stab Legasov after the trial and say, "The KGB sends their regards.".

Michael McElhatton has such a cool voice. I was checking his IMDb resume and surprised he doesn't have more voice and narration credits on it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Republicans love to say Reagan ended the cold war. Though his contribution must be recognized, there are many, many reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union, with Reagan being down the list in significance.

As the closing credits indicated, Gorbachev himself said that Chernobly was a factor, a "turning point" in the fall of the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with that.


FWIW, I studied the Soviet Union for years and even teach a course on it.

There is no one answer and there is no grand theory that is accepted by most historians of the Soviet Union. As you said, Reagan is usually brought up by conservative/foreign policy people in the United States, but historians tend to focus on other things, which doesn't mean that Reagan had no role to play, but the breakup had mostly to do with internal factors. One can argue that the Soviet Union was both formed and died in October 1917. It was an impossible project from the start and that impossibility was gradually exposed in the following decades. The regime bought some time by modernizing the society (industry, urbanization, education, etc.) during Stalinism, by defeating the Nazis, and by becoming a superpower during the Cold War. But all of those things came at huge costs which the regime just couldn't hide in the long term. Ever since the 1930s, the regime told the Soviet public that the West was impoverished, that the Soviet economy was the best in the world (during the Great Depression, the propaganda was particularly effective as the Soviet economy was growing), and that true prosperity for all was just around the corner. But by the 1970s, growing numbers of Soviet citizens just no longer bought the propaganda, especially intellectuals, middle class people, and others who acquired information about what was truly going on in the West (in the show, Legasov makes that point during the trial). And it's around that time when the regime essentially said, "the future is here." And the people hated what they saw. And it corresponds to an era of "stagnation," symbolized by Brezhnev, who ruled for 18 years (!) and yet didn't accomplish anything. While Chernobyl was certainly a turning point in the latter years of the Soviet Union, one can say the entire decade of the 1970s was a turning point that laid the groundwork for changes in the 1980s. Reagan had little to nothing to do with those internal factors, which were about the contradictions/corruption/waste in the Soviet economy, the rise of nationalism among non-Russian ethnic groups, the undemocratic political system, etc. At some point, Gorbachev realized that the country was dissolving and he wanted to oversee an orderly dissolution. And that was his greatest accomplishment. While it was initially a way to democratize the Soviet society, Gorbachev's policies inadvertently destroyed it.

I think it's very important for people to understand it wasn't a single person or a single event. It was a series of events going all the way to 1917 that destroyed the country.

As for the show: it's a masterpiece. There's nothing else I can add to what people have already said earlier.

I lived in eastern Europe at that time and Chernobyl was probably my earliest memory. I remember my mom wanted us to move to Germany and join our relatives there to escape the radiation. We eventually did move to Germany a few years later, but the reason was the breakup of another multinational state, Yugoslavia.
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