| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who wins a 7 game series btw the best of the Shaq/Kobe/Horry Lakers vs. the best of the Kobe/Pau/Odom Lakers? |
| Shaq/Kobe/Horry Lakers |
|
87% |
[ 69 ] |
| Kobe/Pau/Odom Lakers |
|
12% |
[ 10 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 79 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Staccatos
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
|
 Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kobe wins 7 out of 7. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | Not mentioning Rick Fox instead of Horry is a crime. |
Fox was my favorite player on those squads outside of Kobe and Shaq.
But we can't all deny the magnitude of the shots that Big Shot Bob made time and again. Without him, we may not have won those 3 straight.
It's tough to pick a 3rd fiddle on that team, but I think it's between these two. |
Fwiw Fisher hit a bunch of big shots in 2001. He murdered the Spurs in the conference finals. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LBJ23 wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | The 1st Kobe was a way better defender than the 2nd. |
This is false. |
So show me how it is instead of just acting like you know. |
Dude, he was locking down a young Westbrook at that stage. Kobe's mental acuity and overall defensive understanding and prowess was at it's peak during that later 3 year Finals run. Athletically, he hadn't lost anything in terms of footwork and positioning. This is all pre-achilles.
Don't act like he wasn't 100% capable of shutting down any single player in the NBA from '08-'10.
_________________
"I'm like Neo out this m----- f-----," Bryant said."
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130129/daily-dime
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-thinks-neo-matrix-could-ve-best-174850191--nba.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | ReaListik wrote: | | No question Shaq Kobe Lakers. |
Why is this not a question? We're talking about a team that went to 3 straight NBA Finals and won 2.
If not for some questionable officiating vs. Sacramento, that early team might not even go to a 3rd Finals. |
With better officiating against the Kings the 2002 team goes up 3-2 in the series instead of down 3-2. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | The 1st Kobe was a way better defender than the 2nd. |
This is false. |
So show me how it is instead of just acting like you know. |
Dude, he was locking down a young Westbrook at that stage. Kobe's mental acuity and overall defensive understanding and prowess was at it's peak during that later 3 year Finals run. Athletically, he hadn't lost anything in terms of footwork and positioning. This is all pre-achilles.
Don't act like he wasn't 100% capable of shutting down any single player in the NBA from '08-'10. |
I believe the only distinction is that Kobe only played lock down defense when he felt like it as he aged.. It was more sustained throughout the course of a game when he was younger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13227
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darth Los Angeles wrote: |
Artest is probably too much for Rick Fox and this where the series is won. |
Artest was really inconsistent in 2010 offensively. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SocalDevin wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | The 1st Kobe was a way better defender than the 2nd. |
This is false. |
So show me how it is instead of just acting like you know. |
Dude, he was locking down a young Westbrook at that stage. Kobe's mental acuity and overall defensive understanding and prowess was at it's peak during that later 3 year Finals run. Athletically, he hadn't lost anything in terms of footwork and positioning. This is all pre-achilles.
Don't act like he wasn't 100% capable of shutting down any single player in the NBA from '08-'10. |
I believe the only distinction is that Kobe only played lock down defense when he felt like it as he aged.. It was more sustained throughout the course of a game when he was younger. |
For sure. I totally recognize and agree with that.
But we're asking about who wins a series, and for the sake of discussion, we must assume every player playing to the best of their ability, so as not to introduce unnecessary variables. Bc if we start doing that, then we can do that all day about a lot of them.
_________________
"I'm like Neo out this m----- f-----," Bryant said."
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130129/daily-dime
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-thinks-neo-matrix-could-ve-best-174850191--nba.html
Last edited by KobeIsTheOne on Sat May 18, 2019 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not the same position... but can't use Bynum for comparison.
Head to head points comparison during those years and a little beyond
12-14-99 Shaq 21/Odom 2
01-04-00 Shaq 38/Odom 22
01-05-00 Shaq 40/Odom 26
03-06-00 Shaq 61/Odom 17
11-05-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
11-27-00 Shaq 16/Odom 16
12-30-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
01-07-01 Shaq 33/Odom 29
12-14-01 Shaq 28/Odom 17
01-20-03 Shaq 32/Odom 9
02-25-03 Shaq 33/Odom 15
03-17-03 Shaq 42/Odom 12
In case people forget how dominant Shaq was during the threepeat era. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | The 1st Kobe was a way better defender than the 2nd. |
This is false. |
So show me how it is instead of just acting like you know. |
Dude, he was locking down a young Westbrook at that stage. Kobe's mental acuity and overall defensive understanding and prowess was at it's peak during that later 3 year Finals run. Athletically, he hadn't lost anything in terms of footwork and positioning. This is all pre-achilles.
Don't act like he wasn't 100% capable of shutting down any single player in the NBA from '08-'10. |
I believe the only distinction is that Kobe only played lock down defense when he felt like it as he aged.. It was more sustained throughout the course of a game when he was younger. |
For sure. I totally recognize and agree with that.
But we're asking about who wins a series, and for the sake of discussion, we must assume every player playing to the best of their ability, so as not to introduce unnecessary variables. Bc if we start doing that, then we can do that all day about a lot of them. |
Understood, I do believe it's a noteworthy distinction though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sentient Meat wrote: | Not the same position... but can't use Bynum for comparison.
Head to head points comparison during those years and a little beyond
12-14-99 Shaq 21/Odom 2
01-04-00 Shaq 38/Odom 22
01-05-00 Shaq 40/Odom 26
03-06-00 Shaq 61/Odom 17
11-05-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
11-27-00 Shaq 16/Odom 16
12-30-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
01-07-01 Shaq 33/Odom 29
12-14-01 Shaq 28/Odom 17
01-20-03 Shaq 32/Odom 9
02-25-03 Shaq 33/Odom 15
03-17-03 Shaq 42/Odom 12
In case people forget how dominant Shaq was during the threepeat era. |
People forget just how much of a monster he was.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeIsTheOne
Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1476
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sentient Meat wrote: | Not the same position... but can't use Bynum for comparison.
Head to head points comparison during those years and a little beyond
12-14-99 Shaq 21/Odom 2
01-04-00 Shaq 38/Odom 22
01-05-00 Shaq 40/Odom 26
03-06-00 Shaq 61/Odom 17
11-05-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
11-27-00 Shaq 16/Odom 16
12-30-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
01-07-01 Shaq 33/Odom 29
12-14-01 Shaq 28/Odom 17
01-20-03 Shaq 32/Odom 9
42/Odom 12
In case people forget how dominant Shaq was during the threepeat era. |
You're comparing Prime Shaq vs. baby Odom?  
_________________
"I'm like Neo out this m----- f-----," Bryant said."
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130129/daily-dime
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-thinks-neo-matrix-could-ve-best-174850191--nba.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Not the same position... but can't use Bynum for comparison.
Head to head points comparison during those years and a little beyond
12-14-99 Shaq 21/Odom 2
01-04-00 Shaq 38/Odom 22
01-05-00 Shaq 40/Odom 26
03-06-00 Shaq 61/Odom 17
11-05-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
11-27-00 Shaq 16/Odom 16
12-30-00 Shaq 39/Odom 19
01-07-01 Shaq 33/Odom 29
12-14-01 Shaq 28/Odom 17
01-20-03 Shaq 32/Odom 9
42/Odom 12
In case people forget how dominant Shaq was during the threepeat era. |
You're comparing Prime Shaq vs. baby Odom? |
Odom was as productive his first years as he was the rest of his career.
But yes I'm aware Odom was a jack of all trades and Shaq was a dominant star.
Still it was striking how productive Shaq was during that era. I loved watching him play. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: | | The 1st Kobe was a way better defender than the 2nd. |
This is false. |
He's right.. Advanced stats support it as well |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
|
| Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | The answer is Kobe/Shaq and it's not particularly close. The supporting cast was also better in every way. |
Are you sure about that?
Shaq/Kobe/Horry/Fox....and? Samaki Walker?
vs.
Prime Kobe/Prime Pau/Prime Odom/young Bynum/Artest...
And the bench guys were better on the '09-'10 Lakers. I have no dog in this fight, but just looking at it objectively. |
Brian Shaw, Ron Harper, Devin George, Glen Rice, Lindsey Hunter, Tyron Lue, Isiah Rider etc. For someone who "doesn't have a dog in the fight" and just wants "objectivity" you certainly seem to be pushing back pretty hard against the (so far) overwhelming majority.
Also…Samaki Walker? Really? This is the kind of reply that makes me wonder if it's really worth this back and forth.
P.S. Young Kobe was a better defender. Pretty sure this is backed up by stats and advanced metrics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 90s/00s rule, prime Shaq beats everybody, prime Kobe v prime Kobe cancel each other |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| This would be a 5 or 6 game series. The 01 Lakers were arguably the greatest team ever and the Kobe/Pau Lakers were below average as far as championship teams go. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Batguano
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2260
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Everyone keeps bringing up Bynum when he was virtually a non-factor because of injuries during our 08-10 run.
It's an interesting question, none-the-less.
It basically comes down to a top-heavy team that is mentally stronger (2001 Lakers) vs a team with more depth and more overall talent but is weaker mentally (2010 Lakers). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PRIME SHAQ ...... nuff said |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pio2u wrote: | | PRIME SHAQ ...... nuff said |
40/20 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waterman40
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
2001 I think is the stronger team, Shaq was unbelievably strong, and neither Gasol or Bynum would have slowed him down much. Kobe was younger and played a much more active defense back then and I think that mitigates the later Kobe version somewhat. I love Odom, one of my all-time favorite Laker players, but Ho Grant, Horry, and the machine Slava provide plenty of firepower. Also that 2001 team had a young healthy Fisher, Harper, and Shaw lots of veteran experience. The 2001 team pretty much coasted through the regular season and went to the finals like knife through butter.
_________________
LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shaq/Kobe Lakers.
That team could beat any team in any era if the defensive rules were of Shaq/Kobe era. They could lose too, but 7/10 times, I think they win against any other championship team. I'm assuming the rules are the same as back then. You're not allowed to use zone defenses.
If zone defenses are allowed it's more interesting, then I see teams like the Warriors and some other teams beat them. Assuming zone defenses not allowed, I can't see how anyone can stop fouling Shaq. If they don't foul him, it's a slowed down game with Shaq scoring at will in the paint. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7158
|
| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I am shocked the Pau/Odom Lakers got a vote. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
